Jack
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Prince Harry-or-William...
If you go into the army - then you should be treated as every other soldier. I don't agree with war, and where it can be avoided, I will always pick diplomacy, however who should say who's life is expendible compared to another, purely by birth - or even otherwise !!!
Although, I reckon the tank division had a stroke of luck when he wasn't allowed to go.... he's a few years older than me & well... doesn't sparkle-in-the-eyes with intelligence........
>>By Tchock (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 01:00)
If Lynn would stick with Prince Harry and the breach of the continental shelf, and Tchock would resolve her feelings re Lenin and Green would stop chasing windmills, perhaps the rest of us can debate real world concerns and make some headway.
As you know current world leadership of the Brits and the Americans and the Russians and the Chinese will have the future burden of rescueing Iran from itself, preventing an India/Packistan meltdown and myriads of other problems. What is wrong with you people? You are directly beside us in these matters....but you'd never seem to know it here.
>>By lv2read (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 01:10)
L, we ARE debating real world concerns. You're the ONLY person here who doesn't fit in. That undermines everything you say, do you understand that? No one takes you seriously.
Ok, let's assume there are places in America where the standard of living is excellent. There are places like that in the UK too. And let's assume you're also right about there being 'slums' in the UK (if slums means places where the standard of living is very low then yes, they exist in Liverpool and all over the country). Now would you agree that there are also 'slums' in the US? If yes, then my question is: So what's so great about the US? If no, then I give up.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 10:56)
Oh, Greenfyre, in case you read this, thanks for that last post, best wishes to you too.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 10:57)
Flagg
Of course their are slums in America, and Liverpool....and NO slums are not nice places to live. My point EACH TIME has been is that everything is relative. I don't know if you've ever been to Mexico, but if you have you'll understand what I mean. Their slums are far worse than ANYTHING I've ever seen in Liverpool or the US. Mexico's slum dwellers would gladly swap housing with anyone anywhere in Liverpool. Ergo if Liverpool housing is NOT considered a slum by your (UK) standards, then similar housing in the USA would not be viewed by you (objectively) as slums here.
Now if you don't understand this, I give up.
But there are other issues.
How about lack of ambition with respect to job performance? How about the relationship between a willingness to work harder and longer to achieve a goal in order to get ahead. How about working until late in the nigh, or through a weekend to attain an advantage in the marketplace, how about an extended work week----the Brits don't seem to know the meaning of the word expedite. Whether it be the entrepreneur or the factory worker, the principle is the same. The competitive fires rage here-but simmer in your country. One's economy will stagnate without a highly ambitious work force---just look at the US. The lower classes want the same thing that other's have. m They want big screen tvs and SUVs and to go on gambling junkets, and hugh doubledoor 27 cubs feet refrigerators, and nights out on the town and nice furniture and motorcycles and 'fancy' things for their chilfren and they are willing to work extra hours to get them. Come here and see for yourself. You'll step from the streets of Scotland or Liverpool 100 years into the future.
>>By lv2read (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 15:48)
@ Pr.Harry / If you go into the army - then you should be treated as every other soldier
From what I understood, that's what the Prince wanted too, but he was declined to go because the military couldn't guarantee his safety nor that of his fellow soldiers. Not that that can be guaranteed for any soldier, but there was a greater risk involved here because of serious hostage threats.
Also a possible reason was that the general opinion in the UK of the war in Iraq is not all that good, suppose it would cause the death of a member of the Royal family, it would not do much good to that already low opinion.
So I was wondering how going to Afghanistan is any different, is there some sort of media silence now to prevent more of these discussions and would the UK indeed feel any different (or worse) about the war against terror in case a member of the Royal family would be killed.
>>By Lynn (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 16:00)
>My point EACH TIME has been is that everything is relative.
No, that was MY point! Well anyway, if we agree on that then good. And no, I haven't been to Mexico but I'm aware of the extremes of poverty that exist there.
Anyway, you didn't totally answer my question. If there are affluent places and bad places in both the US and the UK then how can you say the US has a better overall work ethic??
And there's one more thing I don't understand: "Whether it be the entrepreneur or the factory worker, the principle is the same." I don't think so. How can a factory worker make life better for him or herself by working harder? What if there's no way out?
I just started to type "Have you ever worked in a factory?" but actually, I'd like to know - if you don't mind - exactly what *were* the conditions you lived and worked in before you were a successful entrepreneur. I mean, were you a Horatio Alger character or did you come from a reasonably well-off family with a base to go back to if things didn't turn out the way you wanted? I'm just curious really.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 16:57)
Flagg
Many factory workers are in the middle class. And, no, I haven't worked in a factory. But, yea, I've provided loans to them to purchase and to refinance homes.
How do you get ahead in a factory? I know that you are serious, so I will answer. Ther may be many departrments...metallurgy, mfg engineering, planning, quality assurance and quality control, etc. Each dept has different pay scales. You get ahead by learning more, learning faster, working harder.....Do you get the idea. I've done businrss with workers that earn un excess of $100,000 per year. Flagg, come and see for yourself.
I grew up in Beverly Hills and studied and thrived in school as though I had no family, no money, no nothing. I attended almost no sporting events, dances...almost no social life. I love mechanical engineering, love learning and handed in my homework..on time. No, I haven't worked in a factory but I have friends and family that own them. While slaving throughndergraduate and graduate school those 'advantages' were not fall back positions or anything else...I was totally committed to engineering. Why does any of this matter?
>>By lv2read (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 19:13)
It matters because not everyone is the same. It sounds like you were very devoted. Correct me if I'm wrong but you weren't devoted by choice. Because people aren't. In my experience (yes the experience of an eighteen year old and blah blah blah) it is true that you can have anything you want if you want it enough... but you don't get to choose what you want. I guess what I really, REALLY don't like about you, when you get right down to it, is that you have nothing but contempt for people who don't want the same things you wanted out of life. Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone is interested in wealth?
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 20:51)
Both quotes from lv2bs's last post
>I grew up in Beverly Hills and studied and thrived in school as though I had no family, no money, no nothing.
So no family then (virgin birth? poverty stricken orphan?)?
> No, I haven't worked in a factory but I have friends and family that own them.
So this family he doesn't have owns factories (not strictly money I guess but wealth certainly)???
I won't bother contradicting him as he seems perfectly able to manage that all by himself!
>>By planet ear (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 21:03)
I think by 'as though' he had no family, he meant he paid no attention to his family, just concentrated on studying.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 21:06)
An 18 year old who does not want more money, a nicer car, a real nice sound system, a beautiful girl friend, and etc. Yes I can bekieve you when YOU say that...but it is just hard to imagine. I'm sure that you have fine parents, a loving younger brother (from profile page) and friends. Remember what Just Jon said....true his wording a little rough....but he made a valid point.
Where is the balance here?
>>By lv2read (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 21:08)
I think most people can imagine it just fine.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 21:22)
Ear
You continue to surprise me. I studied as though I had no family, no this or that. You are either misguided, or lame or both. Lame as in not being able to understamd---not refusing to---just unable to grasp language.
Flagg, did you notice that none of you conspirators pointed out his gaffe?
Balance. Balance is needed----and it won't come from deaf Ear.
>>By lv2read (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 23:22)
Maybe they didn't point it out because they haven't been here since he posted it.
What exactly do you mean by balance? Or is that Balance?
>>By Flagg (Friday, 15 Jun 2007 23:28)
Sorry Lv2 (and Flagg) you're quite right. I was in a hurry and somehow failed to notice the "as" of the phrase "as though" or possibly misread it as "although".
I think the former explanation more likely as I have long considered most of lv2bs's posts to be the words of an "as hole"...
>>By planet ear (Saturday, 16 Jun 2007 11:35)
A most graceful recovery Ear ;)
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 16 Jun 2007 13:35)
And kind of you to say so Flagg :)
>>By planet ear (Saturday, 16 Jun 2007 16:07)
> An 18 year old who does not want more money, a nicer car, a real nice sound system, a beautiful girl friend, and etc. Yes I can bekieve you when YOU say that...but it is just hard to imagine.
Any harder then imagining a young man who "attended almost no sporting events, dances... (had) almost no social life" due to his dedication to mech eng?
>>By planet ear (Saturday, 16 Jun 2007 16:28)
SERVED!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 16 Jun 2007 21:21)
Ear
I I know that I'm waisting words, but there are some very difficult, very selective schools in America, and to survive I (like most) had to study, study, study.
My guess is that you would never had gained admission there, much less perfdormed at an acceptable level. Why don't you stick to communicating with Flagg and Tchock...you're gaffes will pass muster with them. I wrote a very sincere, personal statement and your moronic views ain't appreciated.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 18 Jun 2007 02:50)
I accept that it was a sincere, personal statement. I think Ear still made a valid point. Whatever you think of as abnormal, there are probably things that you've done that, by your own standards, would not be normal.
>>By Flagg (Monday, 18 Jun 2007 11:40)
No Flagg....no way. Many Americans found themselves in my position....big fish in a little pond...until you attend a highlu selective university where you are competing with the top students from many schools only to find (for the first time in your life) that you are now average. The solution is right in your face....study, study, study. Not normal? How so?
>>By lv2read (Tuesday, 19 Jun 2007 15:54)
Well it was *you* who implied it. You seemed to be saying that a young man who isn't interested in cars and girls is abnormal. Now you're saying a young man who cares only about studying and nothing else is normal. Well?
>>By Flagg (Tuesday, 19 Jun 2007 18:29)
Flagg
Perhaps you and Ear are a lot smarter than me. undergraduate studies in engineering at Cal Berkeley are very, very difficult. Maybe you would have done well without tmaking the effort I expended. Is there anyone on this board that understands what I am saying?
Flagg, I ain't talking basket weaving or cricket. As Tchock what she's heard about Cal.
>>By lv2read (Wednesday, 20 Jun 2007 03:44)
No one is saying they're not difficult.
Please either re-read my last post or just let this go, I'm not gonna keep repeating myself.
>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 20 Jun 2007 09:03)
Flagg
Well it was *you* who implied it. You seemed to be saying that a young man who isn't interested in cars and girls is abnormal. Now you're saying a young man who cares only about studying and nothing else is normal. Well?
>>By Flagg (Tuesday, 19 Jun 2007 18:29)>>>
Not a chance...absolutely no way. Denial will get you nowhere.
The young man not interested in cars is one that is unable to drive one...or one that lives in an area that has no roads. It would be very normal under that set of circumstances. A person that studies much is a student where you HAVE to study much to survive. All teens want more money...all teens want more privileges, more money, moretransportation, more freedom...period, period period!!
You have totally distorted the meaning of my words. And when I say 'all' above...I'm talkomg 90% of your people. I've been to the UK and have observed that teenagers are as crazy about drining there as they are here.
No slums in Liverpool?
>>By lv2read (Thursday, 21 Jun 2007 12:59)
You know, 'period period period' looks like this:
...
Do you have more to say?
>>By Flagg (Thursday, 21 Jun 2007 13:06)
> Denial will get you nowhere.
That is clearly the one topic on which you have greater experience than most.
>>By planet ear (Thursday, 21 Jun 2007 18:04)
Yes, and us girlies spend our lives doing nothing but painting our nails, applying make up and shopping.
You contradicted yourself, lv2read.... that's all. It's not life threatening. All you have to do is just admit it, get on with what you were saying and progress into the next stage of the argument.
And forgive my scepticism here, but you came to the UK for what - 3 weeks - twenty years ago?
There is a subtle difference between reality and what the commercials on the television tell us what we should be doing with our lives. Some of us have the intellect to make our own decisions, others are still bedazzled by that hurdle. Occasionaly there are a few who don't even know the hurdle exists.
Ask yourself this question lv2read, who is it in this world who gains the most respect from people? Is it the ones whose only aim is to earn more and more money, to buy the most expensive products, to have the big house, the three or four cars and a swimming pool or two... or is it those people who do something more with their lives - who's ambition it is to travel the world, or to aqcuire more knowledge or to want to succeed in something purely because of their curiousity, to study hard at uni or at school in a subject area they are passionate about, to strive to achieve something within themselves... ????
Please, lv2read... who inspires people more?
>>By Tchock (Thursday, 21 Jun 2007 19:14)
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