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| Discussion: Jack Concerning political debate..... "Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks." Jimmy Wales, >>By Tchock Diane, I'm sorry, you don't know better. Diane, you live in a capitalist country... there is a strong religious ethic in your country. Does religious freedom seem important to you? Why don't you think for yourself...isn't it time that you ask Tchock to take a flying leap... Can't you tell when Tchock is talking tongue in cheek? Sje laughing at you from time to time.. She is 18 and she is playing with you. Flagg has to be home by dark...can't you align yourself with more mature company? Pls answer these questions: Are privately owned businesses allowed in England (or should I say the UK?) Are British citizens as hostile towards Israel as you are? Palastinians...have you heard of Hamas. What percentage of the Palastinians don't believe that Israel has a right to exist? Well I don't know if you collaboraters here are also anti=Israel...but you've got me wondering here. ?. >>By lv2read No one is listening. >>By Flagg >Diane, I'm sorry, you don't know better. We've been here before, remember? don't patronise me. >there is a strong religious ethic in your country. Does religious freedom seem important to you? no there isn't and no it doesn't. >Why don't you think for yourself...isn't it time that you ask Tchock to take a flying leap... pmsl. pot - kettle. I do think for myself lv2read, that's the whole point. I have never at one point stated that I agreed with Tchock's views, all I'm doing is pointing out that she has the right to express them (joking or not) without being constantly patronised. Same goes with Flagg btw. If you don't understand what I'm saying, go back and read ALL my posts again. And again until you understand my point of view. Hmm divide and conquer. Nice strategy. ;) >Are privately owned businesses allowed in England (or should I say the UK?) Yes. Silly question... >Are British citizens as hostile towards Israel as you are? Palastinians...have you heard of Hamas. Personally, I'm not hostile towards Israel. It's difficult to compare the two sides of this conflict - one side which has an official army, on which billions of dollars is spent, and the other, under occupation, has been forced to resort to suicide bombings and terrorist attacks. Yes, I have heard of Hamas. They are no better or worse than any other group or government that uses a mix of religion and politics to kill people. >What percentage of the Palastinians don't believe that Israel has a right to exist? Well again, silly question. Probably any one who remembers, or is related to, or is descended from those who lost their homes when the state of Israel was created in 1948. Also, anyone living under occupation in the area. Don't know the exact percentage, but I'm guessing it's very high. >Well I don't know if you collaboraters here are also anti=Israel...but you've got me wondering here. collaborators? interesting word. as I said I'm not anti-Israel. What I am is anti-suffering - it doesn't matter which religion you are, which country you are from, what your political beliefs are, how old you are etc, if you and your family are living in fear of death, i have some degree of sympathy for you. If you don't understand that, lv2read, then I feel very, very sorry for you. All war and conflict is bad and I will not be drawn into saying which 'side' I support. It is not a football match. >>By Diane76 Yes, quite agree Diane. "All war and conflict is bad..." Hamas is as bad as all the other terrorist organizations. But as in all conflicts, both "sides" tend to be as to blame as the other. America is not helping the situation by funding the Israelis to continue their occupation. Do you think you could find it in your soul to break free from your dogma??? But perhaps not. After all, poverty and suffering is thousands of miles away in every other country save America. By the laws of physics - if you can't see it nor look for it - it doesn't exist. >>By Tchock Tchock, >Hamas is as bad as all the other terrorist organizations. But as in all conflicts, both "sides" tend to be as to blame as the other. That's the point I was trying to make >America is not helping the situation by funding the Israelis to continue their occupation. Agreed >Do you think you could find it in your soul to break free from your dogma??? I have no dogma, just a personal opinion. >But perhaps not. After all, poverty and suffering is thousands of miles away in every other country save America. By the laws of physics - if you can't see it nor look for it - it doesn't exist. I'll tell you about my work with asylum seekers sometime. The horrific stories I've heard made it quite apparent that suffering exists in the world but thanks for the heads up. >>By Diane76 Diane.....some of your responses are just plain wrong. I'll help---unless you want to rely upon a 17 year old for guidance. >there is a strong religious ethic in your country. Does religious freedom seem important to you? no there isn't and no it doesn't. >>>> Religious freedom IS important to you. In America, as in the UK, we have freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religon. Both are sides of the same coin. I am Jewish--but an agnostic, possibly an atheist. But I have the presence of mind to realize that organized religion is very important to many, many peopls. Religious freedom is one of the major selling points of the American Dream. My own standards demand that I respect Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, etc. I do not criticize them' I appreciate them!! All war is not wrong. The Americans and the British and the Russians defeated Hitler....a very noble effort on our respective parts. Diane....you really need to take a stand on this board. Why don't you call Tchock and Flagg on their silliness, much in the same way to point out things that I write that seem wrong to you?? Why don't you ask Tchock about Lenin and what she calls 'balanced' . Again, be your own person. You are a mouthpiece for the kids when you don't hold them accountable for foolish and immature writings. There are four of us on this board....not one. Yet there appears to be just two voices on this chat...mine, which is clear and correct (just kidding) and the three of you as one. When the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist, their future will be smoother. The UK and USA are steadfast in their support of Israel....and always will be. Israel's enemies outnuimber them 6 to 1. Your country and mine won't allow the Arabs to overrun Israel---just a fact!! >>By lv2read Ok, I've realised how i could have misrepresented myself earlier. >All war is not wrong. The Americans and the British and the Russians defeated Hitler....a very noble effort on our respective parts. I don't believe all war is wrong, I think I stated that it was bad. I didn't mean to sound holier than thou, just attempting to express how I feel. >Religious freedom IS important to you. In America, as in the UK, we have freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religon. Both are sides of the same coin. I am Jewish--but an agnostic, possibly an atheist. But I have the presence of mind to realize that organized religion is very important to many, many peopls. Religious freedom is one of the major selling points of the American Dream. My own standards demand that I respect Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, etc. I do not criticize them' I appreciate them!! Sorry - I was a bit flippant! I meant that religious freedom isn't important to me personally as I am an athiest, but of course I think that everyone should have the right to believe in whatever they want. I know how important religious belief is to my mum, my sister, some of my friends and a lot of my students and as such I would defend their right to worship however they want. >When the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist, their future will be smoother. The UK and USA are steadfast in their support of Israel....and always will be. Israel's enemies outnuimber them 6 to 1. Your country and mine won't allow the Arabs to overrun Israel---just a fact!! I truly hope that peace can be achieved. I mean that. >>By Diane76 I truly hope that peace can be achieved. I mean that.>>> I agree as well...I never give up hope. Your clarification on religious freedom is much appreciated. I have three grown sons---one of which attends Sabbath evening services, the other two are pretty secular as I am. All three have the same Mother and Father, yet are as different as night and day. I went to Hebrew school for four years and I didn't like it---I refuse to view the world as Jew and Gentile. It just isn't part of my mindset. Am very proud of my heritage--both parents Jewish, yet many of my frriends and business associates are from different cultures. The best to you....and I hope the best for Flagg, Tchock and Lynn. Am not saying goodbye but merely signing off. >>By lv2read >The best to you....and I hope the best for Flagg, Tchock and Lynn. Am not saying goodbye but merely signing off. Same here! I think my ability to argue the point has been exhausted for the time being.... :-) >>By Diane76 <>Do you think you could find it in your soul to break free from your dogma??? I have no dogma, just a personal opinion.> Sorry, Diane, that wasn't meant for you... Israel has existed for 59 nine years... Palestine how long?? Not taking sides - both could easily live alongside each other if the prejudices and governments were erased. That might be the most difficult task though. Israel is not the victim here - Hamas may be attacking Israeli targets with suicide bombers and other such means, but how much of this truly reflects the Palestine community?? In the creation of the Israeli state it took over... what 55% of the country?? I'd be pretty pissed if England decided to waltz in and take over Scotland (not that they haven't tried it already) but definitely not enough to blow myself up. There are a lot of brainwashed nutters around, don't let them be the only ambassador for the Palestinians. You cannot hope to achieve peace if you allow and even fund the apartheid even more... a compromise must be met by BOTH parties. Religion... well personally I feel like it's all a bunch of codswallop, but each to their own. I respect their right to believe in whatever - I'll just never understand how. >>By Tchock s'alright Tchock, I've always been a bit oversensitive.... ;-) >>By Diane76 The UK and USA will continue to protect Israel as long as her neighbvors are belligerant. Re the West Bank--captrured in the 6 day war of 1967--lately which countries have returned land captured during conflict.? Occupation Tchock??? land captured more appropriate. Syria was using that land to launch missles into Israel---they were duly warned---Israel won the war in six days. There was a joke at that time that went like this. An Arab girl was smitten with an Israeli soldier...and she had a desire to date him/know him better. He asked if she wasw aware their sides were at war. Her response....well let me call you next week! Israel has been a sovereign country for 59 years---they have had plenty of time to get over it. >>By lv2read As far as I can tell, Israel is as belligerent as its neighbours. So Diane and Tchock are right, it's pointless to take sides. And what's the difference between land occupied and land captured? >>By Flagg Flagg Does the UK occupy England or is England part of the UK?? Istael does not occupy the West Bank. The West Bank is part of Israel since its capture. Big difference Flagg. Rge Arabs learned not to launch artillery into Israel....the hard way. >>By lv2read Oh yeah, I see. Still, I don't understand how anyone can pick sides. At least, anyone not from one of the countries involved. >>By Flagg What do you think of today's events in Gaza...???? Anyone see that courageous man try to stop the gunman ??? There is a lot of problems - but most of it is caused by the minority...both sides have lost so many lives due to the actions of the few. Occupied land and captured land........ so Hitler just captured France and Poland did he ?? And in Britain (BBC) certainly, when we talk about the West Bank and Gaza, we will refer to it as Palestine. Well you know technically England IS the United Kingdom because the Kingdom would be that of the Royal Family, which is English.... well actually mostly German with a bit of scots and greek thrown in.. and Norwegian........ However, Scotland would be classed as being occupied - England took over Scotland a few hundred years ago now, and under the Act of Union we became part of the United Kingdom. Anyone from Britain will be shocked to hear of a party delivering it's promises !!! Yep, the SNP have scrapped the £2000 (roughly $4000) graduation fee for all students, including those graduation next week !!! Really hoping the SNP will continue to make good changes in Scotland... far better than labour ever managed !!!! >>By Tchock God Bless America http://scienceblogs.com/deepseanews/[ DELETE SPACE] 2007/06/munitions_dumping_at_sea.php A link thanks to our old friend greenfyre..... >>By Tchock Another kind gesture from the G8...... http://www.truthout.org/ [Delete] docs_2006/061307G.shtml >>By Tchock A link thanks to our old friend greenfyre..... >>By Tchock (Thursday, 14 Jun 2007 00:46)>>>> He enjoys playing with children. >>By lv2read WHAT? >>By Flagg Flagg In mjany of the posts that he wrote, he was toying wit you and Tchock....my reference is to intellectually 'playing'----he knew that you wouldn;t pick up on that. Now if he wasn't kidding with you, he's just plain sick or warped or both. >>By lv2read So what exactly do you mean by 'toying' with us? You mean he wasn't sincere about what he was saying? That he was secretly on your side? >>By Flagg Flagg You are close, but not quite. He didn't agree with me, but he did not mean many of the tyhings that he said. He would be outrageous to be outrageous. Unfortunately I'm the only one that called him on it. If you had EVER challenged him, he would have just gone away. He was like Just Jon in many respects. >>By lv2read @ You are close, but not quite. He didn't agree with me, but he did not mean many of the tyhings that he said. He would be outrageous to be outrageous. Unfortunately I'm the only one that called him on it. If you had EVER challenged him, he would have just gone away. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA That's f*ck'n hilarious!!!!!!!!! Ohmy ohmy, from all the things you've said on Jack, ever, this is the absolute worst crap I've read. Keep going L2R, you're starting to be entertaining now. At least I had a good laugh at this one. >>By Lynn L2R No, it's just that: i) I don't enjoy wasting time with senile old coots who can't make a coherent statement if their life depended on it; ii) the most childish behaviour shown here has certainly been by the senile old coot, and if age ever were an issue it has been the juveile behaviour by the senile, not the reverse. iii) Tchock, Flagg etc have exhibited mature, informed, thoughtful participation deserving of respect even if one did not agree with them. Unfortunately only person here has been so childish as to not grant them that respect. iv) I made no outragous statements. I supported everything I said wit verifiable, legit sources on te premise that cogent, adult discussion cannot be carried out if you are just making things up like some 4 yr old, something you apparently failed to grasp. v) As ever, you are so totally deluded about your relevance and suffering from such delusions of adequacy that I seriously have to wonder if you are not indeed the victim of some form of disability; age related or otherwise. As noted elsewhere, I am leaving flork as I simply have no time. BIAM, Sarco, Lynn, PE, Tchock and Flagg it has been a pleasure. I wish you all the best. L2R, it has been neither an honour nor a pleasure, but maybe someday your bluefairy will appear and you can become a real boy ciao all >>By greenfyre Amen >>By Lynn Grow up Greenfyre....it is not too late. You live in a country that respects differences of opinion--did you get lost along the way? America is your country's closest ally...and that is because our societies have so much in common....is this surprising to you as well?? Our leaders share a common vision....you think? You want to hear crap, Lynn?? Select ANY post from greenfyre....and ask a neighbor. Where is the balance here. Tghe four of you sound like tweedle dum and tweedle dee. Show some intelligence green....tell me that you acknowledge the high standard of living in the US and acknowledge the slums of Liverpool and---just plainly---open your eyes and your mind. The Lynns and the Tchocks and the Flaggs may actually amused by your rantings....they may actually have something on you!!! When you read Lynns projection of the breach of the continental shelfs in America, the UK and elsewhere WITHIN 10 YEARS you might get the idea that she;s uncompromisingly radical and as foolish as those that don't believe that any adjustments need to be made at all. And then you listed to a 17 yr old that became enamored with Lenin at 13 ???????? And then you read of a 17 year old whose focus in life is the martial arts, and you read of Sarco that despises all things American... If you are reading this Diabe, you might realize that you are in deprived company. Now, if your opinions are radical I believe you'll feel right at home. Now I'll share something with you...There was another American on this board (JustJon) and he was as rude to my opponents as they were to me. And you know what, they bailed. They could dish it out but not take it---which says something. We need balance. >>By lv2read Tchock, after all commotion about Prince Harry not-is-not-is-not-is-not going to Iraq, he seems to be training in Canada now to go to Afghanistan later. Is the general opinion in the UK more positive on the Prince in Afghanistan? >>By Lynn <Tghe four of you sound like tweedle dum and tweedle dee> Whereas you're just dumb. Stop attention seeking and go get another hobbie instead of lusting after the argument-fuelled attention you get here. You're not fooling anyone. Either you are beyond brainless, or you're making up your "arguments" as you go along. Unfortunately, both sceanrio's seem very likely. Anyone else actually want to have a debate...??? >>By Tchock |