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| Discussion: Jack I agree. America are unstoppable. It marches into any country it feels like and does whatever it wants to that country. God help us all. >>By Flagg Look, the fact that America came out on top and are, militarily and (for the moment) economically, the most powerful nation on Earth, doesn't make them morally superior to everyone else. Yes, Saddam's regime was terrible, so was Communist Russia, so were the others you mentioned (so are many others that still exist like Zimbabwe's current set-up), but America is NOT perfect. It is very, very flawed. Not every American is well-off like you, and saying they didn't try hard enough just doesn't cut it. You'll never change my mind on that so you might as well stop trying. >>By Flagg Wouldn't it be great if he just said "hey... maybe you've got a point.... sorry." But then again he's as likely to agree with us as we are with him........... lv2read..... you're arguments are illogical and not based on facts, you talk vaguely about a subject without actually saying anything at all, you discuss the same topics over and over, you ignore certain responses or retorts that counter your argument, you have a knack at avoiding answering direct questions by rambling on to an extent to which you believe the inquirer will merely give up rather than ask a second time, you believe wholeheartedly that things are solved by throwing a bit of money at it, you don't question those above you in the hierarchy, you believe that anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong, you're dogmatic and ignorant..... tell me have you ever thought about becoming a Politician ??? >>By Tchock I'll help you Tchock.... If you criticize capitalism by a socialists' yardstick, you are off target from the start. If you critique communism against America's standards.....you'd be way off....downright foolish. Just a little more halp now. I have been doing that to you and Flagg, which isn't faIr because industriousness, ambition, material possessions, high competitive instincts aren't important attributes in your society.....to the extent they are in the US. To mention Zimbabwe to me is as foreign as my mentioning Al Quaida terrorist cells in Germany to you, i.e. one gives us concern..the other is not on our radar. We are closely aligned with Israel, whereas you are more critical of them. You are more tolerand of Arab/Muslim fundamentalism than we are. Our differences are profound. When you take issue with my statement that there are no slums in Liverpool when I was there myself and saw MANY areas that would be considered slums to Americans, I'll allow our living standard is so much higher than yours that my vision was jaded....but not intentionally. >>By lv2read What kind of society do you want? Do you want modern conveniences--do you wants thousands and thousands of used cars to choose from--do you want modern bright colored suburbs--do you want an economy of hundreds and hundreds of new business starts each and every week--in Newport Beach alone I would conservatively estimate that there are 10,000 to 30,000 millionaires IF NOT MORE. I like to take four to five vacations per year...and I don't stay with relatives, and many others are able to do the same. Come see the way blacks live in LA and tell me you think that they are doing without ANYTHING. Three experiences in Liverpool that I'll never forget: 1. I went to a Men's Clothing Retail shop to purchase a shirt. The clerk offerred to sell me a 'collar' saying that was all I needed. I didn't go there because I needed a shirt, but because I wanted one. 2. I met a person that was looking for a used car. The sales person said that he could locate a fine used car for him in less than 6 months---and the British shopper was pleased with that. 3. The daughter of an associate of mine had just graduated from college, and had gotten job. I congratulated her and asked her where would she be workingf and when was she to start. Her response was that the job was in Chester and she'd be starting 7 months in the future. Unbelievable!! There is not ONE American that could understand any of the three items above. Myself included. >>By lv2read >in Newport Beach alone I would conservatively estimate that there are 10,000 to 30,000 millionaires IF NOT MORE. The key word here is 'alone'. >There is not ONE American that could understand any of the three items above. Myself included. Bollocks. Go and do a survey to prove that. Not you and your neighbours, I mean a proper one, try looking outside California for a start. >>By Flagg >in Newport Beach alone I would conservatively estimate that there are 10,000 to 30,000 millionaires IF NOT MORE. In fact, this could be a simple mathematical equation. How much money is in the hands of private citizens in America? If (IF) there are that many millionaires living in Newport Beach alone, is it even possible that there could be similar numbers across the country? >>By Flagg Demographics As of the censusGR2 of 2000, there were 70,032 people, 33,071 households, and 16,965 families residing in the city. The population density was 1,829.5/km˛ (4,738.8/mi˛). There were 37,288 housing units at an average density of 974.1/km˛ (2,523.1/mi˛). The racial makeup of the city was 92.22% White, 0.53% African American, 0.26% Native American, 4.00% Asian, 0.12% Pacific Islander, 1.13% from other races, and 1.74% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.71% of the population. There were 33,071 households out of which 18.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 42.5% were married couples living together, 6.1% had a female householder with no husband present, and 48.7% were non-families. 35.3% of all households were made up of individuals and 10.1% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.09 and the average family size was 2.71. In the city the population was spread out with 15.7% under the age of 18, 6.5% from 18 to 24, 33.0% from 25 to 44, 27.2% from 45 to 64, and 17.6% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 42 years. For every 100 females there were 97.9 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 96.6 males. The median income for a household in the city was $83,455, and the median income for a family was $111,166. Males had a median income of $73,425 versus $45,409 for females. The per capita income for the city was $63,015. About 2.1% of families and 4.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 3.0% of those under age 18 and 3.5% of those age 65 or over. As of September 2005, there were 36,876 registered Republicans and 12,268 registered Democrats. (Source:"Newport Beach Turns 100", OC Register, Sept. 2005 As the figures above suggest, the median income for a family is well above the national average of around $40 000, but still quite a bit away from being on the million-dollar mark. And I find it VERY hard to believe that a little under a half of the population are millionaires. However, the main problem lies in the fact that you think because you live in a nice, wealthy area, then everyone else in America lives up to those standards. The next problem is that you think America is leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else in all respects. You think that because you can't get the shirt you wanted in one shop back in the 80s that there are no other shops in Britain & that nothing has changed in twenty years. All three points are beyond trivial. America might be different in many ways, but it still has the same fucked up problems as the rest of the people on the planet save the exceptions of those in the third world who've got a little bit more to worry about than crying over a collared shirt that's not in the right colour. Flagg, I'm thinking of a certain song from a certain band we both love. It pretty much encapsulates this... can you guess what it is ?? ;) >>By Tchock Private citizens?? All profit making ventures are in private hands. When the government is running an enterprise it is by nature nonprofit. How many new business starts were there in Liverpool all last year? How many individuals have businesses in Liverpool wherein they have in excell of 50 workers// I rest my case!!! And, for the math of it, multiply what I said about Newportr Beach by 5 to 6 times for my hometown of Beverly Hills. America...the land of opportunity....make your fortune...live the good life......work longer...work harder...never give up....stick with it. >>By lv2read Tchock Avg home value in Newport between 1 to 5 million...avg equity position approx 60%....figure it out. Now, what is hard to believe?? Your age is showing...you ignored the most important fact of all...equity position. In addition to having approx $1 million equity in their home, many (in the hundreds of thousands, have stocks, bonds and other holdings. Now, again, what is your point? >>By lv2read Sorry L2R, I didn't understand your last post. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to economics, I'll be the first to admit. But does... that point you just made... render all Tchock's arguments null and void? I somehow doubt it, but please enlighten me. >>By Flagg Oh and Tchock. >Flagg, I'm thinking of a certain song from a certain band we both love. It pretty much encapsulates this... can you guess what it is ?? ;) It could be one of several, but I have a pretty good idea. Something about the American dream... repeated several times without musical backing? L2R, by way of explanation: we young people see the world through a filter of rock music. >>By Flagg Flagg Well you've got me there. I could not name one tune of the rock music genre....inless Rod Stewart of the 80's is so considered. Clarification...you're not including Hip Hop or Rap are you? >>By lv2read http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/ DELETESPACE News/newsdetail_0998.asp This one's a big one, sorry, but it's rather interesting if you take the time to read.... http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/03/10 DELETESPACE /03-010.pdf http://www.epinet.org/ DELETE SPACEcontent.cfm/bp154 I read an article in which there were employment growth in California - but I lost the link. All the same, shows that I am not just seeking out the bad points of California. Business in California is probably booming. Business.... wait for it lv2read - read this CAREFULLY..... business, as I have never claimed otherwise, is a good thing. However, the American Dream nonsense.... http://memory.loc.gov/learn/ DELETE SPACE lessons/97/dream/thedream.html http://www.americansc.org.uk/ DELETE SPACE online/American_Dream.htm I especially like the phrase "the one who dies with the most toys wins".... very good. And Flagg, Do You Know Your Enemies? >>By Tchock Yep, they're the people that taught me to post on the Jack board. I posted that same link a while back, it was the first or second result of a Google search for 'american dream'. Ignored, surprise surprise :P L, rock is a very big genre. I'm sure Rod Stewart fits in somewhere. And while hip-hop doesn't usually overlap with rock (*except* with them Tchock), it does form part of *my* filter - a fact that I revealed here some time ago and was forced to valiantly defend ;) >>By Flagg Flagg Gansta Rap has no defense. It is pure ghetto mentality, vulgar, anti-weomen....do I need to go on? Does anyone here have a sister? And you can 'valiantly' defend gansta rap?? Btw, Rod Stewart ain't in no group with any rapper anywhere. Poor grammar for emphasis on;y. Retro.. Do any of you still believe that Liverpool is slum free? Do any of you believe that the standard of living in the USA is below that of the UK? Do any of you believe the minimum wage in the UK is above or equal to that which is in the States? In America, most single family households have 2 or more cars!! % of households without a car....my guess approx 2%. Where would you want to live? >>By lv2read >Gansta Rap has no defense. It is pure ghetto mentality, vulgar, anti-weomen....do I need to go on? Does anyone here have a sister? And you can 'valiantly' defend gansta rap?? I couldn't agree more, it's horrible. But 'gangsta rap' and hip-hop are not the same thing, and there are hip-hop artists around with a lot of musical and poetic talent, and meaningful things to say. As for the rest of your post, I can't be bothered to reply because you're obviously still assuming everyone measures happiness by number of cars. >>By Flagg Flagg Hip Hop..poetic...as in Lauren (I hate whites.) Hill. She's just a nappy haired hoe to me....jer in your fave anti-white. anti-semitic trash is putrid to me. I'll assure you that she's not as good in taking it as she is in dishing it out!!! >>By lv2read Well I'm glad you have such strong feelings about one particular individual, but I was talking about an entire genre and the variations within it. You know who I hate? Orlando Bloom. Yeah, actors are pathetic, I hate them. Just look at the guy. >>By Flagg Who is he?? What is he about? >>By lv2read He's a crap English actor who got catapulted to fame because he's pretty. He was in Lord of the Rings. My point was, he doesn't represent the acting profession, and no one person represents hip-hop. >>By Flagg >Do any of you believe the minimum wage in the UK is above or equal to that which is in the States? It is. End of. >>By planet ear Ear Why are so many blokes on the dole......do uneducated twenty year olds earn your minimum wage....if so, why aren;t they buying homes?? On you min wage, two people could easily afford 500-600 pounds per month (mortgage)....would you make sense out of this? >>By lv2read If owning two cars is one of the many steps to happiness in your opinion, then I feel immensely sorry for you. I see no achievement nor necessity in owning two cars. Don't give me any bull shit about the fucking American Dream or anything like that. The American Dream no more exists than Harry Potter - sure it's a nice tale to tell the kids, but only a few unhinged people actually believe it. Don't reply by spouting a lot of crap about how everyone in Orange County California are rich plonkers because so what if it's true ??? There are more poorer people in the world working their fingers to the bone and they are FAR richer for it. Yes, I read somewhere that the "poor" in America aren't as poor as you would expect. If owning a fleet of expensive cars is the ultimate status symbol in America, then I guess you guys probably deserve Global Warming. However, I am mature enough not to judge a whole nation by one dilusional man in Orange County (aka the cesspit in which Republicans congeal). UK minimum wage IS better than US minimum wage. FACT. Quit arguing over it. Do you have ANY idea the house prices in Britain are currently??? It's ridiculous - few can afford to get onto the property ladder unless they've inherited money or are in high earning jobs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5128220.stm I'm guessing you've never had to worry about money before. That's why you think it's easy to get where you are. Work hard & that's all it takes. Hate to tell you, but when I was 16 I knew this wasn't the case. Even though I don't pay uni tuition fees, I am seriously thinking of quitting uni because my family just can't afford it. My parents - classed as "above average, relatively well off" earners. Yeah fucking right. >>By Tchock Tchock Your socialist bent is showing. And why do families own 2, 3 cars? Before I answer this, would Flagg take a try at it. Please. >>By lv2read Oh shut up about my "socialist bent".... what the fuck as that got to do with anything I wrote in that post??? Apologies if you are too parochial and self absorbed to notice that there are billions of people on the planet with a little more to deal with than what colour of Jaguar should I get. You are so twisted by your precious capitalism that you are a slave to it. You honestly think that money can buy you happiness and that is all you should care about. You don't need cars and holidays five times a year to be happy. Ambition or success isn't measured in dollars. Try telling some poor forty-something on minimum wage with a huge debt, behind on the rent or mortgage, too many mouths to feed, that he shoud have worked harder. Hopefully the punch in the nose would knock some sense into you !!!!! Tell me why do families own 2 or 3 cars.... is it because they can afford it....??? Probably. But then again, stupid me, I'd think "yeah, I can afford it, but I've got a pair of legs and a decent mass transit". Reality.......Lv2read's Reality.......... Two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT concepts !!!! "Can't you see, it all makes perfect sense - expressed in dollars and sense." >>By Tchock Flagg I'm waitimg...some of the stupidity in Tchocks' reply will lead you to the correct response. >>By lv2read It's three in the morning, he won't reply until tomorrow. Most of the stupidity in your replies often lead us both to the "correct response"... just so happens that a lot more people tend to agree with our "correct response" than your version of events..... but then again anyone who doesn't agree with you probably isn't worth listening to. Do you honestly believe that success is measured purely in money & possessions ??? >>By Tchock p.s a simple yes or no would be more than enough........ >>By Tchock What one has acquired and built during their lifetime is a testament to their productivity....in your country as well. >>By lv2read |