| |
|  |  |
| Discussion: Jack Let me be honest: I would never use the word 'cunt' against you Diane, because I wouldn't want to offend you. That's because you agree with me. >In your face homosexuality is offensive, vulgar and tasteless. Not as offensive, vulgar and tasteless as in your face capitalism. Been to the cinema lately? The adverts go on longer than the film these days. >>By Flagg You can't have ot both ways Lynn. Amsterdan has EARNED its reputation. For right or wrong (it;s not for me to judge), Amsterdam is what it is. Tchock...because YOU perceive that a person is intelligent does not entitle that commie your respect. Now again, 13 year olds---if not indoctrinated at home are propagandized with communist/socialist views in school. I can understand that in China, Russia and Cuba, but NOT in the UK. What is it about this that is so difficult to understand? You are selling Diane and Flagg short. The question is not WHY I am a capitalist, but why you were a communist/socialist at 13....... This is a legitimate question that many big people would have. >>By lv2read >Let me be honest: I would never use the word 'cunt' against you Diane, because I wouldn't want to offend you. That's because you agree with me. ;-)) you need to adjust your irony settings sweetie! >>By Diane76 @ You can't have ot both ways Lynn. Amsterdan has EARNED its reputation. For right or wrong (it;s not for me to judge), Amsterdam is what it is. You ARE judging, I'm not Amsterdam, I'm not from Amsterdam. Again, I'm offended you judge me by Amsterdams reputation. For I know what that reputation is and I can't relate to any of it. Except that I have no problems with homosexuality. Though 'in your face' is something extreme and it's not something that I care to see. >>By Lynn I'm afraid my irony settings were at zero Diane. I was totally serious. L2R, how many times does Tchock have to tell you she isn't a communist? She has an interest in the era, that's all. And she takes the time to understand it rather than label it evil without knowing the first thing about it. Is it bad for a 13-year-old to be interested in history? >>By Flagg Flagg When and if you become a parent, I positively guarantee you that you'd be greatly offended if your daughter or son was taught to greatly admire Lenin---under the guise of teaching history. You'll understande this in 10 years or so. 13 years old Flagg...do you think that she might have been duped?? And, as a parent, would you condone that?..At 17 oe 18 years of age, she knows no better. Surprise, surprise. >>By lv2read >You'll understande this in 10 years or so. No I won't. There's nothing to understand. You latch onto the fact that she's been interested in communist Russia because it helps you back up your ridiculous arguments. You've never met these mysterious teachers who supposedly brainwashed her, you don't even know ANYTHING about her experience of school. You're not fooling anyone. >>By Flagg Flagg---- 13 years old and a committed Leninist, socialist.....are you serious?......duped plain and simple......I'll say the age again.....13.....If she didn't get it at home, where did she get these ideas? Flagg, who's fooling whom? Think again....13!! You don't think a 13 year old is impressionable? Or something? >>By lv2read Well even if Tchock *had* been taugh to be a communist or socialist, the thing is, for us, 'communist' and 'socialist' aren't dirty words. There are things worse than communism, and we're not alone in thinking that. You keep going on about the 'vast majority' but if you ever set foot outside California you might find that quite a lot of people share our views. >>By Flagg Wow, did I leave someone speechless? Surprise, surprise. Oh arrghh.. I forgot, what can't be refuted, will be ignored. I can think of children doing much much worse than reading (!!) about communism btw. >>By Lynn Hitler. We can all certainly agree that he was an evil man. However, you cannot deny that he did "great" things. For those of you about to shout at me for saying that, stop. I am not of course talking about the halocaust nor world war one, nor the brutal Gestapo nor the concentration camps. Hitler managed to reverse the effects of the depression which had resulted in Germany by the Wall Street Crash of 1929. He took 35 million people out of unemployment, built hospitals, schools, roads (autobahns), he completely turned the country around within what - five years, if that. There is NO denying that this was a pretty big achievement - regardless of who did it. "He did terrible things, oh yes, but great things." You know who said that?? Albus bloody Dumbledore from Harry Potter - if a ten year old kid can grasp this idea, why can't you?? Back to Lenin, and my apparent admiration. You see now, I can understand the whole political situation. I know why certain things were done, and who instigated them. I understand how Stalin came to power, I understand how Lenin came to power. I can comprehend many of Lenin's ideas & political decisions, his tactics and his methods. Agreeing with his methods & politics are irrelevent in regards to appreciating this man's intellect & achievements. I don't admire him in the way you think. I just know quite a lot about him, whereas... you don't. >>By Tchock Sorry Flagg, I was referring to my original statement! No offence meant... >Tchock...because YOU perceive that a person is intelligent does not entitle that commie your respect. Now again, 13 year olds---if not indoctrinated at home are propagandized with communist/socialist views in school. I can understand that in China, Russia and Cuba, but NOT in the UK. What is it about this that is so difficult to understand? You are selling Diane and Flagg short. lv2read, just because YOU don't respect someone, it doesn't mean that no-one else is allowed to either. We are all the sum of our experiences and learning, and in my opinion the broader the learning, the broader the mind. If my 13 year old were reading books on world politics and expressing his/her own opinions (whether they clashed with mine or not) I would be proud as punch. I want my children to have minds of their own. >The question is not WHY I am a capitalist, but why you were a communist/socialist at 13....... This is a legitimate question that many big people would have. Oh, but why you are such a staunch capitalist is an interesting question. Were you indoctrinated at home or propagandized with capitalist views at school? - a legitimate question, I feel... >>By Diane76 (He might even answer it. Stranger things have happened. Once or twice.) >>By Flagg Diane, I live in an incredibly successful capitalist count6ry...as YOU know. That should be easy to grasp. Naturally, my frame of reference is capitalism, free market, production in the hands od companies/individuals, all the trimmings of wealth in the hands of non governmental workers, and on and on, etc. Russia, a hated enemy of the UK,, a society so economicall behind yours that it is almost cruel to point out.....yes, it would seem to all that a public educator touting such would be akin to heresy. Again, Diaane, you would not indoctrinate a 13 yr old with Marxist=-Leninist propaganda. Ask any Principal at a middle school within 20 miles of you. This discussion is ridiculous. >>By lv2read ** world war two !!! >>By Tchock Errrr Russia has always been behind "the west" even before Lenin came to power. It could have been a greater economic power if Lenin hadn't have sold all the royal jewelry to fund the World Revolution, by the way. And by the way, just in case you haven't been present on planet earth for a while - the cold war ended almost two decades ago... there is no such thing as the USSR !!! Hmmm... if telling facts and allowing the kids to make up their own mind is counted as indoctrination, then we've all been had, haven't we ?? My history teacher allowed us to create our own opinions- provided they were based on FACT. And I took my opinions to my exams - are you trying to tell me that my anonymous examiners were marxist-leninst-wreckers too ?? Christ, you're sounding like Stalin !!! Please... please just stop attention seeking !!! >>By Tchock >Naturally, my frame of reference is capitalism, free market, production in the hands od companies/individuals, all the trimmings of wealth in the hands of non governmental workers, and on and on, etc. So what you're saying is... you've been taught a certain set of values since birth because of the culture you grew up in, so you believe that ways of doing things that aren't familiar to you are wrong. It's called a schema. Did you know that word, Mr Psychology Expert? ;) As for Russia being a hated enemy of the UK, I don't think I've ever met a single British person who hated Russia. It may have been a political enemy of the UK for a long time (not anymore) but just what the hell has that got to do with any of us?? >>By Flagg A hated enemy of the UK? Which hat did you pull that one out of? Don't you mean the US? I'm not suggesting indoctrinating a 13 yr old with anything. Read my post again. And again until you understand my point of view. >>By Diane76 Well Diane, what is your opinion of a school system in the UK that indoctrinates impressionable 13 yr olds with Marxist Leninist philosophies. Now, if you are a moderate of any shade that will be unacceptable to you. And you know this to be true. Whay can't you say it is very revealing. >>By lv2read L2R, no one was "indoctrinated". You're making it up as you go along. Tchock was taught history. Real history, not the "Americans were sent by God to make the world a better place" sort of history you seem to have been taught. >>By Flagg Flagg, And who teaches Marxist/Leninist/Socialistc/Communistic version of history? With your depth of experience in higher education, why don't you inform me? You aren't saying, surely, that placing Lenin and Socialism and Communism on a plateau is acceptable to capitalistc UK? Please check with your parents. Psst. Russia was your hated enemy for many, many years. Again, ask your parents. >>By lv2read >a school system in the UK that indoctrinates impressionable 13 yr olds with Marxist Leninist philosophies. do you have proof of such a curriculum? I'm guessing no, as it doesn't exist. >Whay can't you say it is very revealing. revealing of what? that you're talking out of your hat? >>By Diane76 It's not a Communist version of history, it's the truth. Communist Russia was complicated. Making some attempt to understand it, even being interested, is ok. I'll second Diane's question about proof of British schools "indoctrinating" students. >Psst. Russia was your hated enemy for many, many years. Again, ask your parents. a) Russia has never been MY enemy - I am not representative of my country and b) the patronising "ask your parents" stuff just bounces off me now. Think of something new why don't you. >>By Flagg You may have heard of many schools in America abandoning biology in favour of the lunacy of Creationalism.... looks like you've got a bigger problem of *indoctrination* than us Brits.... "Communist Version of History".... www.soviethistory.org - it's an American site.... Now I know some of the words are the same, but "History of Communism" and "I love Communism and Lenin", but they're really completely different phrases. People may have feared Russia, but that's not the same as hating them. The fear itself came from the government, who had it's own agenda. Believe it or not, but behind the thick veil of governmental spin, lies a population who can make up it's own mind. We don't hate the Russians. I think if we managed not to hate the Germans, then I think we're ok with the Ruskies. Why do you hate them? Because they were communist.........another dogmatic answer classical to indoctrination... how ironic. We're in the 21st century - the USSR died when Gorbechev ended it in 1991. Quit living in the past and get over it !!! And if you're going to insist on rambling on with this, then at least have some evidence for your light words. They're laughable right now - don't make a bigger fool of yourself. >>By Tchock Tchock, when you're exhausted of repeating yourself... you might want to try this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-a-bye_Baby But not on yourself of course. ;-) >>By Lynn You have some real hate issues, by the way lv2read - you need either a punchbag or a psychiatrist, and I'm not sure about the former. >>By Tchock They ask for proof....it is in your face..Tchock. At 13.....celebrating Leninist/Marxist ideology??? Give me a break. And, Diane...you know the expression...can't see the forest for the trees? You'ver come out now...as I thought...cavorting with the extremes. Too bad, I was hoping that you'd be able to say...now wait a minute guys, you've gone to far. I should have known better. Tchock....you've got many things to unlearn. Lynn....you're trying to out liberal yourself...it does not play. Flagg...I expect nothing different. Diane...you might ask Tchock where she got Leninist views at 13, and judge for yourself. America...the healthiest economy in the World....the richest, most powerful society on the globe....and Israel and the UK are its most steadfast supporters. Always. >>By lv2read What healthy allies you've got there. One's a ruling apartheid over the Palestinians, which the US aids to isolate and destroy the communities of the Palestinians. Not to say that the Palestinians haven't got their terrorist groups who strike back, but as usual the minorities always seem to be the only ones that count. And the other - well half of the population don't really want to be allied to your government !!! Diane, you'd probably better ask lv2read himself about what I was doing when I was 13 years old. He seems to know more about it than me...... apparently one cannot mature and be pragmatic enough to change one's mind about something... for instance: when I was thirteen I learnt about it, and naturally thought it was a good idea. Then I realised that it wasn't ideal for humans and now - aged 18 - I now have a fairly balanced view on things....... Diane... cavorting with the "extremes".... haha - she's really got up your nose by stating the bleeding obvious !!! <you've got many things to unlearn> UNlearn ??? lv2read, you have more things to learn than I do perhaps, even if I am only 18 years old. lv2read you got into UC Berkeley. I've always said that academic education proves nothing of human intelligence. I guess you're the proof. Evidence, please. It's not hard. >>By Tchock >You'ver come out now...as I thought...cavorting with the extremes. pmsl. I'm not even going to dignify that one... >Diane...you might ask Tchock where she got Leninist views at 13, and judge for yourself. I don't have to ask her anything. I actually read what she writes. >America...the healthiest economy in the World....the richest, most powerful society on the globe.... A man's intelligence does not increase as he acquires power. What does increase is the difficulty of telling him so. D. Sutten >>By Diane76 D. Sutton........is he dead??? 'Cos ya know .... dead people are irrelevent..... ;) really like that quote by the way :) >>By Tchock |