Jack
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Yes it is exorbitant
>>By BushisaManiac (Sunday, 26 Nov 2006 20:16)
Tchock has done the same thing as me (as of this message - seriously) but she did it with more dignity: silently. Just thought I'd let you all know.
Have fun debating.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 26 Nov 2006 22:54)
Bye then
>>By BushisaManiac (Monday, 27 Nov 2006 15:21)
Perhaps we can have a discission with more moderate tone.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 27 Nov 2006 15:49)
Maniac
You might re-read Tchock's statements on Lenin and ask yourself how 'mature' she is. I'm suggesting that the discussions could be more productive if you, Deaf Ear and Tchock didn't play off one another. You were acting/writing more and more outrageous things.....like you were all playing an old game, "Can you top this?"
If <<Bye then>> truly means Bye, so be it. I will suggest that you learn moderation......and practice it.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 27 Nov 2006 20:18)
Didn't realise "discussion with more moderate tone" meant bitching for no apparent reason.
Perhaps discussions should be about sharing ideas, instead of hurling abuse until people give up on all hope of there ever being a point to the argument in the first place.
If you ask me directly a question on the USSR 1917-1939 I will gladly give you my opinion or a basic fact. But I really would doubt you would ever listen, lv2read. I can feel you shuddering at there mere mention of Lenin from all the way over here.
Don't forget, lv2read - you're nearly a laugh, but you're really a cry.
>>By Tchock (Monday, 27 Nov 2006 20:53)
Tchock
If the UK is educating 13, 14 and 15 year olds to revere a Nickolai Lenin, the Crown is living on borrowed time. If the Crown permits its nuclear family to do so (as in Scotland), it is just plain stupid.
Tchock: The only place that you want to see Lenin's countenance is on ther underside of a garbage can....deeply buried in a dump.
Are you back...or here to take potshots?
>>By lv2read (Tuesday, 28 Nov 2006 04:18)
Exactly why do you think I dream of resurrecting Lenin from his tomb & painting his picture on every wall??
Is it because I might actually know something about the guy that you might think this ???
lv2read - I'm laughing at your stupidity & plain ignorance, but I really should be crying that someone like you actually exists.
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 28 Nov 2006 11:14)
Tchock
13, 14 and 15 yr old are not mature enough to understand a Lenin, or Guevara, or a Hitler. And apparently one 17 yr old specifically is not ready to study or 'understand' Lenin's despicable actions. And, again, and in what public school system, did you gain your 'respect and admiration' for Lenin.....and this is NOT laughable. Perhaps Deaf Ear or Maniac may be tickled by your school girl's exhuberance, but not many others!!! And all of society crys at such a thing.
Tchock, I am sure that you are a very nice person, but you are extremely misguided politically. It is one thing to support labor unions, but it is another to fly from that to proletariat revolutiom and on to communism....communism of any kind or sort or nation so practicing it is bad period. Labor unions fluorished in the US until their dallyance with Communist AND socialist politics. They lost their credibility with the people at that point. The concept of workers organizing within a company is good, and benefits and wages negotiated are beneficial to the labor force. But communish AND socialism ain't good....and it is on that issue that your school has let you down. And a 15, 16 or 17 yr old is not old enough or mature enough to understand that they have been propagandized.
When you see his name on a coin, I hope that it will not have been minted in the UK.
>>By lv2read (Tuesday, 28 Nov 2006 12:22)
lv2read
I do not idolize Lenin, nor Stalin nor Guevara, nor.............anyone.
My school did not teach me anything. Unlike in China I am actually allowed to freely seek out my ideas. Before I entered secondary school I was socialist in principle. I am left-wing - but I do not want to see the Red Flag flying over the Scottish Parliament. I have at least the insight to realise that we do live in a reality & that communism is flawed by the people who introduce it.
As to Stalinism. He was not a communist in anyway. The purges were not communist. The 20 million deaths may have been "in the name of communism" but there was not one soul there who died for it. It was for the glory & security of Stalin and his many men. Is it communist to set a quota for arrests/executions & exiles for the NKVD ?? I think not. I wish people who not associate communism with the disease that is human nature.
Am I too young to understand Lenin or Stalin or Guevara?
Don't worry - I won't tell anyone here what you told me last time you said that to me.
Perhaps you should discover what my beliefs are before you criticise me. If I really did believe that Lenin was the best thing since sliced bread - then you would of course be excused in calling me immature & naive. But I do not. I understand a great deal about the USSR and I assure you that although I see the "good" that it did (like the rising economy of Russia & the eventual victory in WW2 as well as in education etc - I have a whole dissertation on it if you would like to read it............) I do not excuse the method nor the aims, the purges nor the millions of innocent deaths in the construction of the New Russia. I do not wish this to repeat.
You are getting confused between communism & totalitarianism in Russia. One was a disguise for the other. This is why people fear communism - because they believe that it is related to totalitarianism, which of course it does not & should not ever be.
My views : centre left. Socialist in principle, but probably not in reality. I would say a little bit of capitalism is great - but let's not go too far, eh? We are only human after all - & we all know what happens when humans get greedy...............................
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 28 Nov 2006 13:59)
Tchock
Am impressed with your response, yet minor clarifications are in order.
<<Before I entered secondary school I was socialist in principle.>>
Secondary school?? At what age does one enter secondary school??
Socialist in principle....what? why? how did that come about? Now if secondary school is entered at 17-18 yrs of age....I'll buy that statement....otherwise not a chance.
<<If I really did believe that Lenin was the best thing since sliced bread>>
You might re-read a recent post of yours...sounds like high admiration to me. Tchock, he's not to be admired.
Russia, until recently, WAS communish in reality. Because it failed miserably, apologists like to say that it really wasn't communism/ Please don't fall into that trap.
<<We are only human after all - & we all know what happens when humans get greedy...............................>>
Capitalism recognizes the differences in people. We are all different. Some work hard enough to get by, and fewer don't even do that. And there are some that push, push, push, and are never satisfied with the status quo, always believe that they can accomplish better, accomplish more etc. For athletes, that character trait is praised, even admired. But for the businessman/businesswoman, that trait is maligned. It would not serve any purpose to continue in this vein, but it may be worth your time to think about these thoughts.
An aside....
Flagg departedthis board, in part, because of the tone of responses to his posted remarks...which may have been misinterpreted. I have come down pretty forcefully on your 'posts' and I sincerely wish that I had exercised more restraint. This statement is NOT, nor is it intended to be a patronizing remark. We have all gotten a little personal here and that reflects a degree on immaturity in all.
>>By lv2read (Tuesday, 28 Nov 2006 14:31)
lv2read - you wouldn't mind if I replied to your post in a week or so ???
I've got exams now you see - time is choked........... I barely have time
to eat chocolate.........so of course........ you see my dilemma ;)
6 days left of infomatics !!!!!!!
By my next post...........I shall be a free woman..................
>>By Tchock (Wednesday, 29 Nov 2006 19:46)
Tchock
I wish you well. Ienjoy learning, but did not like school--and I went to a highly selective one, and I still wasn't motivated!! So, good luck.
>>By lv2read (Wednesday, 29 Nov 2006 22:41)
Tchock you claim:
"As to Stalinism. He was not a communist in anyway. The purges were not communist. The 20 million deaths may have been "in the name of communism" but there was not one soul there who died for it. It was for the glory & security of Stalin and his many men. Is it communist to set a quota for arrests/executions & exiles for the NKVD ?? I think not. I wish people who not associate communism with the disease that is human nature. "
To be consistent if you are going to claim that you really should also allow any religious person, or even a person who only respects religion whilst not being a theist themselves, to disassociate themslves from acts you claim to be carried ouy "in the name of God" from following their faith or in other ways respecting faiths as human expressions in the same way as Arts are (which equally can help inform us about, or provide useful language for, exploring of the nature of the human condition).
Marx may have provided an analysis which can lead to changed ideals for an individual or society. In applying those ideals those ideals can be corrupted and manipulated. It does not make the ideals any less valid. In the same way those following or respecting a Faith of a different kind should not be regarded as necessarily foolish simply because others have misused or corrupted ideals of that Faith.
>>By planet ear (Wednesday, 29 Nov 2006 22:45)
Jesus, 17% tax! They must be adding a hell of a lot of value, Biam. I'd expect my Yorkie bar to come with a hooker for that kind of money. I appreciate your responses, and it sounds to me like the UK is indeed a bit draconian with the taxes. Also interesting that you say what a lot of U.S. left-leaners deny, which is that in the UK, those with money pay for private care to get the best, most efficient service. I do believe everyone should be able to afford health care, but lately I'm thinking private industry might be the way to make this possible.
Wal-Mart, for instance, now offers hundreds of generic prescription drugs here in the U.S. for only 4 dollars for a month's supply, and they're forcing many of their competitors to follow suit. Will this drive some "mom-and-pop" pharmacies out of business? Yes. Do I care? No. The anti-Wal-Mart crowd insists the poor should be left to pay high prices just so a few upper-middle-class business owners don't have to learn to compete, but I say let the weak perish. You CAN compete against Wal-Mart--not on price, but on service, etc. What happens is that the local business owner, who had a monopoly of his own and was a total dickhead to customers, whines to liberal lawmakers when a Wal-Mart (or Asda) comes into town and offers the same or better goods and service for a lower price. Too lazy to offer a better product, the business owner uses the city government as his means of "competing."
It's funny, but Wal-Mart is solving the problem of folks not being able to afford drugs--and believe it or not they're getting into leasing clinic space in their stores.
Captitalism, not socialism, may well provide universal health care here in the U.S. In this case, greed is good.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 30 Nov 2006 01:22)
You don't get a hooker with your Yorkie JJ but a perscription costs I think £7.50 regardless of the purchase cost of the drug and usually a couple of months supply here. Walmart can afford to be cheap on volume sales sure but when you've driven out the competition how much will people have to pay for rarer or more "costly at source" meds?
Regarding private versus state health provision the issues are vastly more complex. I have a GP friend who is German and has worked in Germany and Canada (where I think private insurance is the norm) and the UK. He seems very clear to me that in terms of acheiving good clinical practice and overall value to society for a given social cost the UK system is superior. Maybe he can be persuaded to join Flork....
>>By planet ear (Thursday, 30 Nov 2006 02:23)
Interesting, PE. I always leaned towards state-provided myself as I do see the danger involved with a private company as you've pointed out. Canada does have "universal" health-care, but again lots of Canadians come here to get what they perceive as "better" treatment--and I heard this from Canadians as I was there on business for a couple of months.
The Canadians did, however, say that they thought our U.S. system barbaric--that one could actually die for lack of money, but really that's not true. You can get care here if you need it, it's just that you'll accumulate huge bills and your credit will be shit.
I feel really most sorry for those in the U.S. suffering from mental illness--they get no emergency care, and many end up homeless or in prison. I hope it is not that way in the U.K.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 30 Nov 2006 02:43)
Yep it's clearly possible to get say one op done "better" privately for an individual who has a few thousands available, you get your hip replaced say. But as you've p[ointed out a condition which requires long-term support, mental health issues as a good example, kidney problems etc isn't really affordable to most individuals.
Sadly a number of the mentally ill do end up on the streets or in prison here too. There is something of a "gap" in provision between say depression treated with anti-depressants/counciling which is relatively available, and the "serious threat to self or others" cases where hospitalisation occurs. The "inbetweeners" don't have many options. They might get into residential care / prison but only if they misbehave, thus there is a growing perception among the medical community that if the lower level treatments aren't enough the patient detriorates until such time as they do make sufficient nuisance that they are hospitalised/imprisoned which clearly isn't the ideal approach for either the patient or society in general.
>>By planet ear (Thursday, 30 Nov 2006 03:28)
Perceptions....
Don't know if my concerns are grounded in fact or not, so i'll ask.
Have heard that in England you would be denied coronary bypass surgury if you were over 80 for the sole reason that your life expectancy is marginal at that point. In America you would be denied the surgery iff (if and only if) you couldn't tolerate the procedure.
Have heard that the Doctor's office is a remnant of the past. No one wants to go to a hospital only to become a number---hospitals are very impersonal....here in the US!!!
I've heard that amputees are denied prosthetics if they are a certain age....shame on socialized medicine if that is the case. I am able to afford them, but the vast majority would find the cost out of their reach.
Elective surgery
More and more types of elective/cosmetic surgeries are being covered by health plans. What is socialized medicine position on this?? Socialized medicine UK style that is.
>>By lv2read (Saturday, 2 Dec 2006 22:47)
Given up on finding supportive evidence for self-correcting climate change then lv2read? ;)
>>By planet ear (Sunday, 3 Dec 2006 01:05)
Deaf Ear
Why do I have to do your research for you? Try googleing to find opinions that are at variance with yours! It won't hurt. I didn't see you post a reaction to Tchock's foolish diatribe on Lenin. Stumped by a 17 year old??
Reread Lynn's post where she discusses that 'within 20 years' the sea level will rise such that ALL land masses will lose an appreciable percentage of exposed surface area. Do you really believe that? A simple yes or no will do. On a geologic sca;e aren't we talking eons??
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 3 Dec 2006 05:28)
Oh how lame lv2bs!
>>By planet ear (Sunday, 3 Dec 2006 05:41)
Within 20 years Deaf Ear? Climate change in decades?? Correct me if I'm wrong (am sure that you will), but isn't the Earth on the cusp of another Ice Age??
Why aren't the others rushing to help you now??
Have you completed your study of revisionist history to arrive at the conclusion that Lenin was a great leader....good for the people.....one whose countenance should be placed on all government buildings, etc. Where the hell were you when the kid was blabbering all thaqt nonsense?
Speak up....there is no place to hide.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 3 Dec 2006 21:44)
Lv2read I don't feel inclined to defend stances I didn't take. I have already commented on Tchocks post. Try reading it when you've wiped the foam from your mouth. ;)
>>By planet ear (Sunday, 3 Dec 2006 22:25)
Planet Ear
....Climate change in decades???
....Isn't the Earth entering an Ice Age???
Where are you now???
Now let me get this right...the horrible SUV's in California are (indirectly) threatening the borders of all land masses on the globe....and we must act now!!!! Very, very scientific Planet Ear. Let me know when YOU want to get serious about Global Warming. Why don't we start with slowed population growth?
>>By lv2read (Monday, 4 Dec 2006 01:14)
According to the Stern Report (from those renowned Commie Pinko subversives HM Govt) greenhouse gases have reached 430ppm compared to 280ppm pre-industrial revolution. This has already resulted in 0.5 degree global warming and if that level was static we should expect a further 0.5 degree rise in coming decades due to inertia in climate. However some models predict the figure of 550ppm as early as 2035 if no action is taken to curb the emissions. The probability of this resulting in 2C global-warming depends on the model used but the range (from models used in Sterns' analysis) is between 77% and 99%.
I am struggling to recall having ever encountered an individual who claims to be educated who is as consistently ignorant, rude, patronising and irritatingly self-righteous as you lv2bs. I presently have no respect for either your intelligence, your integrity or the disgusting moral vacuum in which your so-called mind operates. If one were to perform an enenma on you the remnants would seem unlikely to fill a matchbox.
>>By planet ear (Monday, 4 Dec 2006 03:09)
Deaf Ear
Your post is on the desperate end of the spectrum....do I detect the temperament of an immature throwback from the 60's? The long hair, drug culture, escapist dialogue is out of fashion now. The artsy elite have always lived on the edge, so your outburst is not surprising. And your knowledge of atmospheric physics is laughable....you might stick to a discordant C flat because that is where your mentality lies. Whom do you interact with on a daily basis....twenty somethings, or younger? And yes, big boy, your age and maturity is now an issue.
Moral vacuum? What do you know about morality?? A socialist, isolationist throwback from the 60's....and you know anything about morals?
>>By lv2read (Monday, 4 Dec 2006 03:52)
Oh so you accept the science now then and resort to a deluded personal attack? How very typical that is!
>>By planet ear (Monday, 4 Dec 2006 04:06)
Actually here's a little point for you to ponder lv2bs. Why do you attempt to label me in those various ways? I suggest it is fairly obviously a defence mechanism against any intrusion of a different mindset on your world-view. Ask your therapist sometime ;)
>>By planet ear (Monday, 4 Dec 2006 04:38)
You can't have it both ways. Stop playing to the crowd and, if you haven't noticed, the Gang of Four's Mutual Admiration Society has vaporized. It's now one American vs. one Brit....a little more manageable now.
I repeat, the Earth is on the cusp of an Interstitial Ice Age....how does that square with ever so steady rising temps and imminent doom of the planet....in decades?? Now, would you like to set aside personal attacks (temporarily I promise) and deal with the correlation between unabated and ignored population growth.
<<<I presently have no respect for either your intelligence, your integrity or the disgusting moral vacuum in which your so-called mind operates. If one were to perform an enenma on you the remnants would seem unlikely to fill a matchbox.>>>
I'll match you tit for tat on this level if you choose.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 4 Dec 2006 04:48)
The discussion board is currently closed.
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