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Tchock
Pssst....the insurgents are the bad guys. (Why don't we keep this exchange between us.)
>>By lv2read (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 01:50)
Am with you Steph.......... :-)
>>By hiflydi (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 02:29)
Thanks hiflydi :)
lv2read, don't fall into the trap of "who's the bad guys/good guys?"
They're both as bad as each other - just in different ways.
When we say we don't like the War in Iraq, it doesn't mean that we want old Saddam back in power. Of course that bastard needed removing from any sort of power - but a cowboy with a fistful of dollars to invest in the potential oil trade in Iraq is not the person to do it, least of all because he does not have the authority.
Similarly I do not think the insurgents are just misunderstood and should be allowed to blow themselves and others up if they choose to do so. The insurgents are sickening. In this case the Americans (& their band of not-so-merry men) are the lesser of two evils. The Americans are many things - poor aimers and champions in collateral dammage, but they don't blow themselves up in crowded areas or plant car bombs in roads.
Quite frankly - they all seem a bit mad over there. No offence to anyone from there who might be reading this - but it does seem this, or perhaps their Mad-to-Sane ratio is a big higher than here (or just more apparent). Either way you can't just get rid of the insurgents by killing them. Someone will always be left behind wanting revenge, who's been delluded either by some maniac with a stick of dynamite attached to him, or by some crazy homocidal meglomaniac/psychopath who has managed to indocrtinate them into thinking Allah will simply love him if he goes & scatters himself about in the middle of the street, killing as many innocent bystanders as possible. You can't just get rid of that overnight - and no amount of military tacts will ever get rid of that.
This problem could have been sorted out about 30 years ago, round about the time the Americans were sleeping with Saddam.
If America was so high & mighty with it's "Freedom!" slogan, then why isn't it doing anything with Korea, and I am not talking about their *nuclear weapons*. Might it just be because there's no Oil in Korea? I don't think I would mind so much if America had a good heart, but just couldn't figure out how achieve their *universal aim*.
Name one country that America has *sorted out* with good intentions?
America interferes in other countries' affairs when & if it suits them. Democratically elected or not - as soon as a problem arises for America, they're right in there - no questions asked.
When will America ever look at Africa & sort out the political & social problems there?
Never. At least, not if the same types of people are allowed into power.
I wonder what America will do when the oil runs out (& I'm not talking about not being able to drive 200m down the road in the one-mile-to-the-galleon SUV).
>>By Tchock (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 03:25)
Exactly. World police my ass.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 14:01)
Tchock
Pssst....the insurgents are the bad guys. (Why don't we keep this exchange between us.)
One mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter ........as the old saying goes...........
Consider this-
1. The Nazi's invaded France during the Second World War and viewed the French Resistance as terrorists , although we ( The Allies ) viewed them as freedom fighters,
fighting against the widely accepted actions of a truly oppressive regime.
2. If a foreign power invaded either the U.K. or the U.S.A there would no doubt be a similar resistance organisation spring up- are the terrorists or freedom fighters ?
3. Ok next question -
Iraq a country invaded by foreign powers in 2004, resistance springs up - terrorists or freedom fighters ? ( not insurgents)
The difference between the above is that we were the "good guys" and held the moral high ground on the first and second points but on the third we most certainly don't
>>By wreckin krew (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 14:24)
Tchock
There are people that say more foolish things than you and certainly ones that believe that the Islamic Extremists as seen in the insurgency are merely men having a mid life crisis and that we should give them space to work it out. Tchock, you wouldn't recognize moral high ground if it hit you in the face.
For Oil????
Stupid, stupid.... American dollars are cherished by Iraq even more than we cherish their oil. What is wrong with you?? We are their best customer!!! Foreign regimes live and die over their ability to negotiate trade agreements with the US. the Al Quaida Chronicle is misleading you...again.
Glad to hear that you believe that the Nazis were asn oppressive power. That is not because your country is in close proximity to Europe, is it?
The US is a liberating forve....not an invader. Sadaam destroyed the soul of Iraq...his family terrorized on a daily basis and we should ignore what was done to the Kurds???
And tell me about the 30 active terrorists plots in the UK as of this writing....high ground? The secular civilized world is under attack...read YOUR newspapers.
The ostrich syndrome appears to be well and thriving.
Tchock. A little maturity here would go a long way.
>>By lv2read (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 18:08)
Tibet needs liberating as does several African nations - any takers ??? - thought not -
too many cash dollars lost offending China , nothing really worth having in Africa .
The 30 active terrorist plots in The U.K. - my initial reaction to that was if the authorites are aware of these so called "plots " why are they broadcasting it on T.V. instead of arresting the perpertrators , it couldn't be the old propaganda card could it -" terrorists under the bed" surely not.
I take offence to the fact that you call anyone who does not agree to your doctrine uncivilised by the way "The secular civilized world is under attack." By lv2read (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 18:08) , the majority of these countries had advanced civilisations hundreds if not thousands of years ago - historical fact.
No comments on the " One mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter ........" post of mine
hmmmm thats odd .
>>By wreckin krew (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 19:34)
>Tibet needs liberating as does several African nations - any takers ??? - thought not -
too many cash dollars lost offending China , nothing really worth having in Africa .
That's a very good point. I don't have anything to add but I would REALLY like to see L2R respond to Wreckin Krew's point there. It looks like the kind of thing you'd ignore L2R.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 23:14)
>Tchock. A little maturity here would go a long way.
Why do you believe that calling someone foolish, naive or immature is an adequate response to their argument? You're not making a point of your own to defend what you have said; you're giving a personal opinion that the rest of us don't have any real desire to hear.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 11 Nov 2006 23:24)
Flagg
EVERY stand she took was wrong. I don't have to defend the defeat of Hitler, or the impending defeat of the cowardly insurgents do I?? I think not. Flagg, communism is dead....period. The 30 active terrorist plots is documented in YOUR press. What is there to defend?? Resistance to US?? Are you serious?? Just you try taking the newly gained freedom away from the Iraqi people. Wreckincrew has made NO points whatsoever... Think about it. Iraq has a legitimate government in place now and it is going nowhere. Defend what??
Is the US an invader because Wreckincrew, Tchock and Insurgents say we are? Or are we liberators as the VAST majority of the Iraqis view us??
***Do you believe that the American people wanted a change in Washington?? Well, if you do, a much higher percentage of the Iraqi people voted for their constitution AND their current leaders!!! Defend WHAT?
Flagg, you need to hold fellow combatants to as higher standard. Oil dollars...oilproduction...not mutually beneficial...again you allow Tchock, WrCrew et all to espouse pure unadulterated nonsense. And if you choose not to read my post of reason and logic....then don't.
Korea, Africa, oil running out, pure nonsense. North Korea has been given enough leash to hang themself. Notice has been served Iran. The US is proactive and our positions have struck synpathetic chords in Russia, China and Great Britain -- not to mention France and Germany -- not bad company I might add.
Defend what????
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 00:24)
Oh, for God's sake...
It's not a choice between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists." The Iraqi people are savages, monkeys. That does NOT, however, give us a right to dictate how they will live. They seem to enjoy killing each other--they killed each other Saddam, they're killing each other now--so I say we get out and let them live whatever bizarre version of "the good life" appeals to them.
Same thing with Africa--if Gibbons are executing Rhesus monkeys, I don't give a fuck. It's not up to us to civilize the world.
And yes, if white Norwegians start raping and killing the Swedes, that's fine by me, too.
I think the whole problem is this phony crap about caring about other countries. As someone else pointed out, we the U.S. only care when it's in our best interest.
I'd like to be among the first to say I really don't give a shit if every slack-jawed, carpet-sniffing ape on the face of the earth dies via civil war. I live my life in my country, and I don't go killing my neighbors. Those who do should be allowed to weed themselves out of the human race.
>>By Just Jon (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 01:13)
Insert "under" before "Saddam..." And give me a banana!
>>By Just Jon (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 01:42)
JJ
I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. All I can think to say is,"There, but for the grace of God, go I." While not religious, I really like those words. We must all share this planet and another saying (aphorism??) comes to mind: Man is related to Man as the finger is to the hand!!
Interesting, candid thoughts JJ.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 04:25)
JJ, your post sounds racist and fanatical, but you are right about not interfering with other countries.
L2R.
>Wreckincrew has made NO points whatsoever
I copied and pasted the point he made. Did you miss it? Did you erase it from your memory as soon as you'd seen it?
Let me try again then:
>Tibet needs liberating as does several African nations - any takers ??? - thought not -
too many cash dollars lost offending China , nothing really worth having in Africa .
The point he made is that Iraq wasn't the only country run by an oppressive dictatorship, so why did the U.S. choose to liberate Iraq and not somewhere else?
Note to JJ: I don't believe Krew was America SHOULD march in and liberate Tibet and Zimbabwe and wherever else, just that the fact that they chose Iraq instead (with its oil and its tenuous link to Al Quaida and its non-existent weapons of mass-destruction) shows that their motives are not the slightest bit altruistic - as you know.
L2R you keep claiming, wildly, over and over again, that no one except you ever makes a valid point and that you don't have to defend yourself, but the thing is NONE OF US BELIEVE A WORD YOU ARE SAYING. Should I remind you you are, by and large, outnumbered?
Here's another example:
>This problem could have been sorted out about 30 years ago, round about the time the Americans were sleeping with Saddam.
Do you deny this? Are you going to claim the U.S. never cooperated with Saddam? Well even that would be better than ignoring it, as you've done with most of the rest of what have been said.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 11:05)
*...believe Krew was America
was SAYING, I mean
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 11:09)
Flagg
JJ's post was not racist....it was satirical. And, it is clever. I am surprised that you are so hung up with political correctness!!!
Tobet,,,,liberation...WHAT are you talking about?? African countries need liberating???? Says WHO?? I know ver little about those areas OR the politics therein. I probably know as much about Tibet as YOU know of the challenges facing the mestizos (sp?) in Northern Mexico. I don't have the inclination to research the Soviet Union of 1921, or current Tibetan issues in order to respond to posts about Iraq, America's leadership. There are those here that shovel extraneous data to the forefront in an attempt to impress mates and to distort the discussion. We're talking Iraq, and we ain't talking Iraq of 10 years ago. To point out the absurdity of what you are saying, Flagg is it not true that Russia is now an ally of Britain and the US?? A simple yes or no will do. Isn't it also true that they have not always been so?? Ergo, when our countries were estranged, isn't it within the realm of reason that we might tend to be belligerabt towards one another?? Relationships between countries evolve....sleeping with Sadaam..........how stupid can you be. If we have a common interest, what is wrong with pursuing it??
<<<L2R you keep claiming, wildly, over and over again, that no one except you ever makes a valid point and that you don't have to defend yourself, but the thing is NONE OF US BELIEVE A WORD YOU ARE SAYING. Should I remind you you are, by and large, outnumbered?>>>
Very, very immature post, but not surprising. And when was the last time you changed youe viewpoint merely because you were outnumbered. And regarding being outnumbered, this site was created by a European FOR Europeans. Also, what you choose to believe and/or accept is a personal problem...do we need to discuss it here?
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 15:21)
So Africa's in democratic bliss is it????
I don't think so. Try looking up news results for Zimbabwe for a start...........
"If we have a common interest, what is wrong with persuing it?"
You know, Hitler and Britain had a common interest against Russia in the 1930s. Does that mean it's ok to associate with vicious, evil dictators so long as you're both getting something out of it ?? That's ludicrous !!!
You talk about moral high ground (& my lack of) but it seems you are completely devoid of it !!!!!
Why is everything any of us say is immature ?? Can you not actually argue against our points??? Or would that require backing down on your opinions..................
"When was the last time you changed your viewpoint merely because you were outnumbered."
Well interesting question. It is not about being outnumbered - but when a vast majority of people have precedence over another minority on a certain opinion - then you might start to wonder whether you've got your facts right................
lv2read,once again you are failing to realize that not many people in power are nice happy & would simply love to help out another coutry in need for the sheer pleasure of doing good. I mean they haven't before in history - so why should we pretend that they care now ???
America goes where the money goes - haven't you noticed???
JJ's post was disgusting, sickening.
But Flagg - why can we not interfere with other countries ???
Something needed to be done about Iraq - but not under the circumstances when the 'liberators' were lying about their priorities. There are no boundaries drawn on this earth to seperate the countries. If you would help someone in your own country - then why not anywhere else??? We are all human beings - let us not forget that. Forsaking anyone to a fate under a vicious dictatorship is as good as killing them.
lv2read - stop prattling on about 'Communist' Russia every five seconds. You may not have noticed - but Flagg isn't actually a communist. Neither am I. If I ever discuss Russia it's because I'm making a point about something you've either said or using it for reference/comparing it to a situation nowadays. Yes of course Russia and the US and Britain were not always the best of friends. But now - suddenly - they are. Just because they got rid of a name "communism" from their country and stopped killing a lot of their own countrymen. (Well.....)
Is it alright to just leave Korea as it is, then ???
I mean so long as they don't interfere with America..... it's alright to abandon the people in need there ???
Same with African countries.
I agree with Flagg - I do not wish America (nor any other country) to waltz into any dictatorship & 'liberate' the people. No, decisions that affect the lives of millions of people should never be made by one country alone - but by the world community.
And YES, JJ - it IS up to us help all we can. But I still wouldn't say we are "civilized". Just slightly less into brutal murder of our people than other governments. Let us not forget that is actually countries like Britain, France and other colonial-owning countries that have caused all this modern mess. The Scramble for Africa doomed the rest of the 20th century. It is not only our duty to help them - but it is our responsibility.
By the way - this site as created by a European for anyone who wants to use it.
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 18:25)
>I don't have the inclination to research the Soviet Union of 1921, or current Tibetan issues in order to respond to posts about Iraq, America's leadership.
Well then maybe you're not qualified to make the kind of statements you make. Of course, I don't know a whole lot about current affairs in Tibet or Zimbabwe but I know they have problems AT LEAST as bad as the ctizens of Iraq had/have. When Tchock talked about communist Russia it was, as she's said, in response to a point you made. You go on and on and on about how terrible communism is... and now you're saying the most famous, prolonged example of a communist government is irrelevant to what we're talking about???
Personally, I think everything is connected somehow - everything is relevant to everything else. But that's philosophy, I don't want an argument about it.
And as it happens I do know a little about the problems in Mexico. I know, for instance, that they go back nearly five hundred years. That's right, things that happened a long time ago are still having an impact now. Do you believe me?
Tchock: to be honest I'm kind of undecided on this. Of course I don't believe that we should leave people in troubled countries to kill eachother on the basis that they're somehow inferior to us, which is what JJ's post seemed to suggest (and it didn't look like satire to me). But waltzing into another country and toppling their leadership is a big thing, even when it's done for the right reasons. I guess the hard question is whether it's better to take action for the wrong reasons than not to take action at all. I'm not sure.
And I don't think every single one of us has a responsibility to help everyone else. A government maybe, if it can run itself competently (hahahahah) but not individuals. It's hard enough taking care of your own life.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 20:38)
STILL waiting for your response conceding or arguing against my earlier points lv2read.....
>>By planet ear (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 23:00)
Don't hold your breath PE.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 12 Nov 2006 23:05)
Tchock
<<<By the way - this site as created by a European for anyone who wants to use it.>>>
Close, but no cigar. Flork was created by a European for Europeans BUT evolved into broader usage/coverage. You are getting a little loose with the facts....again. Your apologists won't call you on these things, so it is up to me to cite such errors.
Now I know that you know mg real well, and that after another 6 months you'll be old friends, but I'm sorry in pointing out the obvious. This site was created for Europeans.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 00:44)
Uhmmm what makes you think that this site was created for Europeans then ???
You seem to think you have authority in any given subject. Has it never occured to you that you might just not be an expert at everything ???
Yes, there is a flork.de - that would be because mg had only maybe bought that host name first?? But that does not mean that I cannot access it because I am not German.
If it's on the internet - and can be accessed freely by any country - then it's for the whole world to access. I think it goes without saying that flork - along with a lot of other sites - was made for a wider audience than just Europe..... and anyway - forgive me for being utterly stupid here - but what is the relevence of this site being made for Europeans ??? Was it just a way of changing the subject so you wouldn't have to argue a point one of us has made ????
But trivialities aside...............
Yes, Flagg - we can't all individually help those who are in need. It would be nice if that was how the human race worked...... but we can't have it all. No - I meant collectively we have a responsibility. Through our governments - ya know the union of our 'representatives' that is supposed to reflect our views & opinions - we should be helping those in need (whatever their cause may be).
By the way lv2read, why ARE you so condescending & insulting ????
"Now I know that you know mg real well, and that after another 6 months you'll be old friends....."
At what age will you stop treating me like a child, labelling me as immature (along with the rest of us undergraduate-of-human-beings), talking down to me as if I am inferior to you??
Maybe my friend (who shall remain nameless) was right about you. But then again maybe you really are just a spiteful old man.
>>By Tchock (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 01:23)
>>At what age will you stop treating me like a child, labelling me as immature (along with the rest of us undergraduate-of-human-beings), talking down to me as if I am inferior to you??
Maybe I've exceeded that age so he just refuses to communicate ? ;)
>>By planet ear (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 01:26)
Tchock
As long as you say foolish things with seriousness, as long as you are confused by the need for civility, as long as you play to the anti-American gang here. Would you 'feel' better if I said anti-American government? Was it envy when you referenced a SUV? In Newport, I surmise several jundred/thousand residents UNDER 21 own SUVs. And there is something wrong with this??
Now your question is why do I call you immature? I am sure you are a nice personhj, but in a group nice people sometimes don't act (or write) very nice. But mature you are not. Let me help you...again.
Your government leaders are NOT stupid.
Tony Blair IS well respected.
President Bush is a bonafide WORLD leader.
The insurgents, who killed 35 last night with a car bomb, are cowardly terrorists. What JJ said was disgusting/sickening??? No Tchock, what the insurgents did last night was disgusting AND sickening. What do the Brits call it, WRETCHED......
Democracy WILL prevail in Iraq. Do you believe 3 months is all the time they need to perfect a modern system of government?? Was Rome built in a day??
Maturity.....essential to real understanding. Yes, Tchock, there are good guys and BAD guys.
And someone pointed out earlier that I had wrong population numbers for Israel and her (hostile) neighbors. I don't doubt that/ But is that really the issue...whether Israel is outnumbered 5:1 or 6:1 or more?? Maturity will lead you to the big picture which is that Israel MUST remain militarily superior...if she intends to survive. Does ANYONE here disbelieve this?
Do any of you believe that Iran or North Korea will test America's resolve during this period of political shuffling.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 06:32)
Again, you've chosen one point and argued extensively against it, going into as much detail as you can until your post is a decent length, totally ignoring five or six other things we've said.
>As long as you say foolish things with seriousness, as long as you are confused by the need for civility, as long as you play to the anti-American gang here.
What you mean is: as long as she disagrees with you. Anyone who disagrees with you is immature and naive and deserves constant patronising and complete disrespect. And you're the most civil person here??
>>By Flagg (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 09:59)
I understand what you're saying Tchock. What I meant was that not everyone has a duty to get in touch with their MP and pester them to pester someone to do something about global issues. For instance, someone said to me lately that Thom Yorke can tell his fans not to drive cars to his concerts, but he doesn't have to get out of bed in the morning if he doesn't want to. He's *made* his millions (rightly so, being a musical genius) - but most of society have jobs to get to and public transport to contend with. The resolve that it takes to actively try and make the world a better place gets lost amongst modern life. You can't blame individuals for that.
>>By Flagg (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 10:08)
<Your government leaders are NOT stupid.>
No, no they are very clever. Only clever people can walk into a country disguised a liberator, kill a load of innocent civilians, suffer needless losses themselves and declare it was all in the name of freedom, democracy & just in case they had weapons of mass destruction while it was really all about some oil and get away with it.
I only think your president is stupid. And your Governor. The people you see on TV are not always the people in charge, lv2read. President Bush certainly does not run America.
<Tony Blair IS well respected.>
Yes, that would be why the labour party members were forcing him to give a resignation date.
<President Bush is a bonafide WORLD leader.>
Why - because America is a super-power ???
What IS a "World Leader" - it's just a phrase that you seem to think has a meaning. It's just meaningless. George Bush does not lead - America does not lead : America just tells the poorer countries when to jump and how high.
<The insurgents, who killed 35 last night with a car bomb, are cowardly terrorists. What JJ said was disgusting/sickening??? No Tchock, what the insurgents did last night was disgusting AND sickening. What do the Brits call it, WRETCHED......>
Did anyone ever say that it WASN'T disgusting and sickening ????
JJ basically said if they want to blow themselves up - leave them to it............ thought you supported his opinion ??? Contradicting yourself.... lv2read - never ?!?!
Brits call it whatever you call it I think - I mean your langauge does stem from ours, so it would only fit. By the way we don't all talk with posh accents & play crochet. And by the way I'm Scottish - which is completely different to being British.
You cannot expect them to suddenly stop slaughtering innocent people if you put a bullet through their head. Once their dead - that's them out of the way - but there are thousands more people who want revenge for their friend's death, or are lead to believe that they killing people along with themselves is good. Yeah - you can kill 'em all - but you won't ever get rid of them. "And the Jews kill the Arabs and the Arabs kill hostages and then it's the news."
No one here - or any where is GOOD or BAD. Thinking like that IS childish - I would have though life would have taught you that everything's not so black and white. Ever heard of the phrase "lesser of two evils"??
<Democracy WILL prevail in Iraq. Do you believe 3 months is all the time they need to perfect a modern system of government?? Was Rome built in a day??>
Well what good will Democracy be on Iraq's bloodbath-foundations ??? It's - to put it strongly - fucked up. What you will get is a reflection of what happened in Germany after the first World War. They tried democracy - but it failed - for different reasons than Iraq, albeit - but ultimately in their desperation they turned to a strong leader (Hitler) believing that Democracy was a failure - and a dictatorship was the way to go. If you took out the forgein soldiers right now - it would only get worse. That's what you call a *catch 22* - the invasion was wrong in the first place- but it would be wrong to abandon Iraq now.
< Was it envy when you referenced a SUV? In Newport, I surmise several jundred/thousand residents UNDER 21 own SUVs.>
I mentioned an SUV because they're one of the main producers of pollution in transport. They consume an enormous amount of petrol (gas). I have no desire whatsoever to have one. Why do you think that I would want something just because everyone else has it ??? The only vehicle I want is a Harley Davidson. I am not a cliché of a teenager as you think I am, lv2read.
Am I anti-American ???
Uhm. No. Why do you think I am anti-American ?? Because I disagree with you???
Am I anti-American government?
Yes - the current one at least. You never know - miracles could happen and it stops interfering in other countries for its own selfish gain (of the 'politicians').
As I - and the others - have said before, there is a difference between disliking a government and the country it is meant to be representing.
You know, lv2read - all my teachers at High School said my writing and arguing skills were very mature for my age. My history teacher would not have allowed anyone else in my class to tackle the question I did for my dissertation. I think you only think call me immature because you yourself have no (real) reply to my question. YOU cannot answer it.............YOU cannot answer an 18 year old girl (or boy in the case of Flagg).
So I've got to be mature before I can understand any of your arguments, then ???
Then I don't think I'll ever *grow up* - as your arguments make little sense as it is without you deviating into rubbish about Russia & something about George Bush has your respect etc.........
------ Flagg ------
Yes, I know it is all very well saying we should stop using too much electricity and stop taking the car to work everyday. I'm a hypocrite - given the option of walking in the cold or getting in a nice warm car..........well I'd choose the car. However, now I walk everywhere unless it is too far if I am aiming to get there for a certain time.
I want to go to San Francisco - I would have to take a long-haul keronsene-konsuming airplane. I would like a Harley Davidson - that needs petrol.
Dramatic changes cannot be made over nite. We just need to start by using energy less etc......... it isn't up to the individual to design a new geothermal power plant of course it isn't. But it is up to the government to invest in the technologies that is going to 'save the world.' And it will be up to me as a future electronic engineer to help with that process. (Although I will only deal small-scale, low voltages......but it all adds up).
We have to get by on what we have. Thom Yorke doesn't have to get up in the morning (and he has no idea how much I envy him for that), but then again Thom Yorke doesn't have to actively fight for what he believes in. He may have made his millions - most of us won't, but then again most of us don't give a damn about the world around us. How many people watch the likes of Big Brother or Celebrity Love Island; read all the "celebrity" gossip columns and really think about anything outside their own personal life ???
If the transport system is a joke - then why don't we change it???
I think it's become habit for (certainly) British society that if something is not good enough - you just have to grin & bear it. (sorry, just read your post wrong....)
No, I cannot blame individuals for not actively making the world a better place. And maybe this is wrong, but it is a fact. Not everyone can or is willing to sacrifice their life for their beliefs. But when we all share one volition - to make the world better, it is our fault if it fails to happen through apathy (or lethargy.........depending on how you see it).
Do you understand what I mean???
>>By Tchock (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 19:17)
Apparently L2R is the only one capable of understanding sarcasm.
Let me guess, Tchock--you weren't disgusted when I said I don't care if Norwegians kill Swedes, were you? I put that post up for a reason--to get the truth out of you, which is clearly that you actually respect the Iraqi people and culture. You can't stand to hear those quaint, boy-raping, woman-beating, Koran-thumping fanatics insulted, can you?
YOU are the reason the left, of which I'm a part, has so little credibility in some circles. You're unwilling to call a spade a spade. You would have been against the war even if Saddam had announced he had a nuclear missile pointed at New York and ready to fire.
Do you have any idea what the people you defend would do to you if you lived in their society? America sucks in many ways, and this war is immoral--as is much of our history. But someone like you can survive here. You'd last about 5 minutes in Iraq, whether pre or post war.
As for Africa--I'll care about the Africans when they stop eating each other.
I really don't understand why America being evil--which I readily admit it is--makes our enemies somehow good in the eyes of the far left. I'll bet you like the dog-eating Chinese, too, don't you?
At any rate, I have proven what I wanted to--that me calling certain people savage monkeys is more offensive to some than those same savage monkeys dismembering and eating each other.
It's a crazy world--somebody oughtta sell tickets.
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 19:46)
wtf????
The whole post was insulting.
<You can't stand to hear those quaint, boy-raping, woman-beating, Koran-thumping fanatics insulted, can you?>
what the fuck ???
I do not defend those types of people for one second - but you know, not EVERYONE over there is like you say. I have made it quite clear that I hate religion of al kinds before - so I certainly do not respect religion. But what you are saying is just sick. How many people in Iraq REALLY want to spend their time killing each other ???
As for Africa - you'll care about them when they stop eating each other - what the fuck - really???
Your opinion is on apar with the BNP over here.
I like the dog-eating chinese do i ???
Oh of course !!!
Fuck off.
The chinese are as bad as any other dictatorship !!!
Just because I don't think we should leave innocent people to be the prey of the (truly) evil in this world, does not mean that I am anything more than human.
I'd be against going to war with Saddam if he had nukes pointed at New York???
(possibly if you were the only one in New York..........)
No really - come on. If there was no other choice but to go to war - FINE. If the reason WAS justifiable - i'e stopping nigh on 12 million people dying.......... then YES FUCKING YES. But going to war for all the wrong reasons, destroying lives at a greater rate than Saddam would have, causing mass destruction, tearing apart the infrastructure when it all could have been avoided if the International Community had joined together to sort this mess out with as little life lost as possibly.
So is the whole of Africa cannibals ???
Yes - of course.
That's right.
It is possible to see what you're getting at - just. You think that because the minority of people are sick & twisted - we shouldn't help those who are affected by their actions ???
There are a lot of rapists in the country -does that mean I'm going to get raped as soon as dark falls & I'm out ??? No of course not. Not everyone here is rapists or murders. Just a few. MOST human beings are decent.
And who said I was far left anyway ???
Fuck off JJ - come back when you've got a sensible point to make.
(You'll notice only you JJ can bring me to the point of swearing more than three times within the same post).
>>By Tchock (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 20:35)
That's odd, sounds like you're saying we should step in and do something about it when people are being killed and abused.
Should we or shouldn't we? Saddam was definitely killing and abusing people--I'm the one saying that's not justification for war because I don't give a shit about those people. YOU seem to be the one who's confused here.
And btw, yes, virtually all Iraqis are willing to kill those who disagree about minor religious points. I'm sorry to be the messenger here, but while all religions are inherently stupid, Islam is the most dangerously stupid AT THIS TIME. Christianity was once more dangerous and may be again, it's just that right now the carpet-sniffers want to kill everyone who disagrees with them. Don't blame me for reporting this.
I am NOT saying that because a minority of Iraqis are sick and twisted we should not help them...I'm saying a majority of them ARE sick and twisted and we shouldn't help them. And by "help them," what do you mean?
If you want to help them, I assume you mean we need troops there forcing them to get along, even if it means killing a few. Or do you think we should send some folk singers over there to stage a peace party and that will solve everything?
My point is that we should have let Saddam keep killing his own people as long as he wanted and as long as he posed no real threat to us...Your point seems to be that we should somehow "help" people, but without force and without removing anyone from power. I think you've been reading too much Harry Potter--magic don't work against those 7.62's to the back of the head.
The Iraqis are savage apes--I stand by my racist remark. I do not want the U.S. to function as zoo-keepers.
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 13 Nov 2006 21:10)
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