Jack
Forum
JJ
"I think any group that thinks they're God's chosen people are "a bunch of nutters," whether we're talking Jews, Arabs, Christians, or Zoroastrians"
aint that the truth, The ultra religious hasidic jews are just as bad as the ultra religious jihadic nutters!!..but surely the zoroastrians aren't such a bad bunch are they?
I disagree with the IRA analogy though, totally different circumstances, if hypothetically England was being bombed, not just with suicide bombers but with artillery and rockets, from say Wales, and the hypothetical welsh government was fully behind the bombings, without taking action against the Welsh 'hezbollah' then I think england would strike into Wales to take out the threat.
The IRA never had full support from the Irish government in recent history (from 69 onwards when the modern troubles started), oh sure there were probably lots of Irish politicians whom supported the cause, but it wasnt government policy, and the IRA were jailed in the south and there was limited extradition. Did the lebanese government root out and jail whoever was responsible for the attacks on Israel?
And PE as for the blockading of roads, especially with respect to Red crescent vehicles, didnt Hezbollah or hamas use such vehicles to mount attacks and transport weapons in the past? they flout international conventions and then whine when the Israelis take measures to prevent that.
>>By BushisaManiac (Friday, 27 Oct 2006 09:37)
>>>I disagree with the IRA analogy though, totally different circumstances, if hypothetically England was being bombed, not just with suicide bombers but with artillery and rockets, from say Wales, and the hypothetical welsh government was fully behind the bombings, without taking action against the Welsh 'hezbollah' then I think england would strike into Wales to take out the threat.<<<
We'd have let them learn Welsh in school and put some veeeeery long sign posts up long before they started bombing BIAM ;)
>>By planet ear (Friday, 27 Oct 2006 10:22)
Well they did welcome us with warm cottage fires a few years back if you remember :-)
>>By BushisaManiac (Friday, 27 Oct 2006 19:40)
I have refrained from adding to the discussion re Israel for reason that I am not objective on that issue. Will concede that I cited incorrect census figures---have no idea where I came up with 15 million!!!
Yet, I am reading all posts.....very interesting.
Has anyone thanked/complimented 'mg' for providing this space for our use??
>>By lv2read (Friday, 27 Oct 2006 20:16)
I thanked him a while ago, and at the time he seemed fairly oblivious to us. I hope he'll continue letting us talk--I think we're having the best discussions of any board on here.
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 28 Oct 2006 05:20)
Why should we thank MG, this is a commerical enterprise for him, he rakes in a fortune from all the advertising, of course he wants us to continue to use this space!!
>>By BushisaManiac (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 11:16)
Actually MG has a definite vision for Gnod that goes beyond money. He's a very well-respected developer. At any rate, he doesn't like gnooks to be a discussion of gnooks, so I'm gonna change the subject.
So I was wondering...does the UK have paranoid right-wingers who think a cabal of liberal elites is controlling the media, or is that just a US phenomenon?
>>By Just Jon (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 15:54)
Dear BIAM,
Why is it that your words don't surprise me??
While (excuse me..whilst) you may be hesitant to express appreciation, I am not.
We have an interesting clue from JJ:
<<<I thanked him a while ago, and at the time he seemed fairly oblivious to us.>>
I believe that he is working in many areas to improve thye site....to attract more advertisers....to expand....to fight boredom...opening old wounds here...I believe that he is VERY ambitious. But, what is your name for a ________ that is ambitious, pursuing the dollar---or the euro.? (A stretch here, but .........)
Yes JJ, this is aq board for big people. And I'm probably guilty again. But the tie in here was just too 'juicy' to overlook!!
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 16:00)
a quick note... mg.... he doesn't exactly rake in a fortune from all this - he deals in other areas of business other than flork/gnod........... but maybe i'm bias 'cos he's a friend.......either way we can thank him for Flork & Gnod.........
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 16:43)
lv2read
everyone here knows the difference between
AMBITIOUS & 'ambitious'
it's just whenever you seem to try & explain ambition
it just all comes down to having/spending a lot of money.............
Marek is as he is. He enjoys his work because it is what he wants to do with his life. He advertises on here to get some money - yeah, but the guy isn't exactly 'well-off'. He does things not to make money, but for the sheer joy of doing it - of creating things. And he's a damn sight more wealthy than certain people - I ain't talking about preciou$ money- just in case you didn't get the implication.
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 18:35)
TCHOCK
For your edification, mg is ambitious, creative, amd is what capitalism is all about. BIAM implied that mg is in it for the money--I suspect it is for that partially and also to be creative, entrepreneurial and the like. I believe that his business, his visions are ever expanding. And, implications aside, I believe that you (Tchock) have a very naive idea re business and commerce. mg is definitely a businessman.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 19:08)
>While (excuse me..whilst)
Either is acceptable.
I believe Tchock knows what she's talking about, whether or not she knows the ins and outs of business and commerce, and I believe you've just been patronising - AGAIN. You don't seem able to even consider that someone under the age of 20 can NOT be naive about absolutely everything.
AND I believe Marek doesn't care what we think of him or his ambitions, and that the lasts few posts have been fairly meaningless - an excuse to be bitchy to eachother.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 19:14)
FLAGG
WHY do you believe that Tchock knows what she is talking about??
She believes that mg is developing these sites for the unadulterated joy of it. And you think that that is a mature observation?? No, Flagg, she is way off.....not even close. And, no, he is not a friend of mine....but merely an internet acquaintenance. I don't pretend to know his motivation.
All I said was that we might express gratitude for his making this site available to us. And BIAM intimated that we owed him no Thanks because he was making money on this project. And then Tchock went on to say that he does it for other reasons. Do you get my point Flagg??? And you are saying that I am being bitchy..... Very interesting Flagg!!!
Real simple. Real direct. For whatever is behind this enterprise, thank you mg!!! From ALL of the participants herein.
End of sentence. End of arguing. End of bitchyness.
And there is no such word as whilst. No such word as spelt. And no such word as maths. Ever.
....just kidding.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 19:51)
Actually I meant we were *all* being bitchy. But what else is new?
The real point Tchock seemed to be making (correct me if I'm wrong Tchock) is that you think all ambition is about money, or that the only thing that motivates people is money. In that respect she certainly does know what she's talking about. It's a point that's been made before about you. I don't think I ever heard you deny it, interestingly.
And using the word naive again when you've already thrown that word around so much, IS patronising.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 19:56)
Ok, stepping in for a minute. I really have to back up Tchock when it comes to MG.
> BIAM implied that mg is in it for the money--I suspect it is for that partially and also to be creative...
NO! As hard as it is to understand for some people... for MG it is being creative, creative, creative and creative - living his dream and hoping to provide us our dreams, hence the name Global Network Of Dreams - and way way last comes money. So yes, there's advertising but to cover expenses and not to get him a Porsche.
>>By Lynn (Sunday, 29 Oct 2006 23:12)
Lynn,
How can you say what you do? Has he, or someone else, stated such? I've communicated with him twice. And on one of the occasions he initiated the chat. But, I do not know him...nor does he know me.
I don't believe that capitalism is a bad word to him. He is a businessman, among other things. And whatever his motivation, I suspect that the enterprise is more perspiration than inspiration. The nuts and bolts of running a business are exhausting, time consuming and non-glamorous. There are easier avenues of pursuing creativity than that which he has chosen.
Expanding...perhaps out of boredom or creativity or commercial goals--I don't really know. While Tchock may 'believe' that she knows, she doesn't. Our psyche and our essence is far more complex than she understands.
And, are you so sure than he wouldn't want a (new) Porsche??
>>By lv2read (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 11:34)
>While Tchock may 'believe' that she knows, she doesn't.
See, for me that is simply unacceptable. How can you just flatly state that someone else doesn't know what they're talking about? Why the hell should we even BEGIN to believe that you do?
>Our psyche and our essence is far more complex than she understands.
And I suppose YOU understand? You're 62 and you run a business. Ok, you're an authority on business, but where the fuck did the human psyche and essence come from???
When are you going to realise that age doesn't make you superior and that all you do is insult us?
>>By Flagg (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 13:15)
Oh, and Lynn never suggested that capitalism is a bad word to mg. She said his main motive for making and running this site is creative rather than financial. Of course to you that's like saying the world is flat.
>>By Flagg (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 13:17)
L2R, it's pretty silly to discuss MG's motives here - unless he cares to participate in the discussion - so I won't get into his (probable) motives further.
I feel Tchock is right, that's what I came to confirm - it may mean something that she and I differ quite some in age and experience but both have the same impression, in my case (and perhaps hers) based on regular talks and a gut feeling. Call it silly....
However, I do agree with you that someones motives are hard to find out and/or comprehend by talking to someone on a regular basis - since it even is for people who are living together closely for years.
I think that it's often the case that the motives/emotions people are trying to hide (thus hard to find out), are of the kind people are not proud of OR aren't able to deal with themselves because they were hurt.
I also think that some people are not even aware of this and so desperately clutch themselves to their created image that they've started to believe it themselves.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 15:18)
I'm sure at least some of that is true for a lot of people. I assume you're just mentioning it and not applying it to anyone in particular? As you and I both said it's silly for us to be discussing Marek's Motives.
>>By Flagg (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 16:37)
lv2read capitalism and entrepreneurial/self-employed activity are different things. Often linked in attitude and activity but not the same. Entrenpreneurial/self-employed activity; find a market for your wares/services provide the same for whatever you choose or can charge. Capitalism; in essence make more money by various means from already having money. It seems perfectly possible to be highly in favour of self-employment/entrepreneurial activity and yet dislike or have reservations regarding the morality of capitalism (particularly unfettered capitalism). Clearly MG is entrepreneurial/self-employed this doesn't necessarily make him a capitalist.
This is a similar point to my saying for example I have reservations/questions about the acceptability to me of Zionism whilst not feeling that I am remotely anti-semitic (I've shared my home with Jewish people at Uni, had several Jewish clients, collaborators and friends since). It may be that the anti-Zionist Arabs BIAM describes as being also anti-semites are just that. It seems likely SOME will be to me, but it doesn't seem to me a necessary or at all logical conclusion that ALL are.
Maybe we would have fewer pointless arguments here if we were clearer in our thoughts and language?
>>By planet ear (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 18:12)
But then again, it might not be such fun ;)
>>By planet ear (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 19:24)
Clearer in our thoughts and language...agreeing on definitions? Us??? I'm missing something perhaps. ut you are right that we'd have less fun.
LYNN
You do NOT have enough info to back up any of your words re mg's intentions/motivations. And it is incorrect to side with Tchock foolish statements when she has even less to go on than you. Flagg apparently agrees also, but why??
To anyone out there... On what do you form your opinion that mg's interest is primarily creative. Just give me ONE thing that he has said. And if he has said anything to you, don't cite ten words---cite relevant passages stated befor and after that which is significant to you. Give it up!!!
>>By lv2read (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 19:40)
What other than your own prejudices concerning anothers' motives suggests MG ISN'T primarily interested in creative expression lv2read?
I for one could certainly earn a great deal more if I wasn't highly motivated by concerns other than the financial! It doesn't seem so unlikely to me that others could be similar.....
Have you accepted my logical (to me at least) points concerning
i) duality of motive for nuclear disarmament of Iran?
ii) there being a moral case for offering Californian Spanish-speakers a better deal (ie option to choose Spanish or English as primary language for their education)?
iii) the death penalty enacted in any way consistent with our current (moderately civilised!) western legal systems is unlikely to serve anyones' interests other than the lawyers employed by the prosecution and defendent?
Perhaps you could now desist from your practice of telling the participants of this board they're illogical/immature/naive and start presenting some less superficial arguments?
>>By planet ear (Monday, 30 Oct 2006 20:12)
lv2read - I regard myself as one of Marek's friends. I have known him for well over two years - whilst you have sent - as you have admitted yourself - two 'florks'.
<I like to build pyramids stone by stone. I like the fact, that from little acorns mighty oaks might grow. I like to think of the next day when I go to sleep. I like to write haikus and burn them later on. I like everything that is far away. I like to travel lots of labyrinthine paths and later find out it was always the same. And most of all I like the ocean. These are the reasons I created Flork.>
I think that's one thing he's said that has suggested he didn't create Flork for purely monetry reasons.
Not once has Marek ever even implied that he was doing something merely for the money. lv2read - Marek is a bussinessman, yes. But that doesn't mean he's a money-grabbing.... like yourself.
Business is NOT just about making money. You CAN believe it or not ENJOY what you do !!!!!!!! Many people start their own business because they are creative - because they've got innovative ideas, new ways of thinking at things - an idea they want to bring to the world's attention, or ya know it could just be that they would like their own business because they love their area of skill.
<The nuts and bolts of running a business are exhausting, time consuming and non-glamorous>
Don't I know it !!!!!!!!!
Perhaps you had a lot of money to invest in your business when you first set it up - however many do NOT. The job of running a business is ten times as hard then yet one thousand times more satisfying - because they've created something themselves - it might not be hitting the stock market - & it might only just be paying the bills - but it's YOUR business & YOU created & YOU & YOUR inspiration are in charge of it's destiny.
lv2read - you know, us "Communist Daily Worker" subscribers are not totally against business. We're just inclined to believe that these multi-national corporations shouldn't be allowed to waltz into poor, vulnerable countries*** - raping the economy & treating the employees like shit; destroying other healthy competition by buying others in the market shares & dominating not only local but global politics as well as damaging the health of the planet - whether it's the atmosphere or the ecology.
*** with invitation from such lovely organizations as the IMF.
I'm self employed - does that mean I'm a capitalized pig ???
Think not. You see there's a little thing called "balance". It's actually quite sensible. If I don't like say George Bush - it doesn't mean I don't like all Americans. I may not like big coporate giants - but that REALLY doens't mean that I want to nationalize every available enterprise.
Back to mg...................
Marek is one of these people in life that loves what he does & not what he gets out of it . He's always got a new project on the go - not because it's another get-rich-quick-scheme - but because he's INTERESTED & EXCITED about the project !!!!!!!!!
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 31 Oct 2006 00:14)
*** capitalist pig !!
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 31 Oct 2006 00:33)
I can't believe that once again some people are using MG's creation--and free gift to us--to question his motives. If he shuts this board down, I won't blame him a bit.
>>By Just Jon (Tuesday, 31 Oct 2006 02:31)
Tchock
You've known mg for 2 years....and that is quite some time...for you, Right?? Allow me to burst your bubble if I may, there are couples that have been married in excess of 20 years only to find that there was much about their spouse they weren't aware of. And that goes for co-worker, business partners, team mates, etc that have spent many hours side by side.
Lynn spoke of hiding motivations. No. Wrong!! All people all have a part of themself that they don't share with anyone---nothing exciting or sinister...we label it privacy. Only mg, and you and me know those things about ourselves. No, Tchock, 2 years of familiarity with mg does not qualify OR enable you to back up such statements.
JJ
I don't think that mg would be angered by these statements, but amused. But, I don't really know. But I know one thing for sure, Tchock has no understanding of capitalism.
>>By lv2read (Tuesday, 31 Oct 2006 10:25)
>You've known mg for 2 years....and that is quite some time...for you,
Again.
Actually I agree though, it's hard to really get to know someone over just two years, especially over the internet. Still L2R, you claimed to know all about mg's motives after talking to him twice. What point are you trying to make?
Tchock has a better understanding of capitalism than anyone I've ever met. Oh but of course that's meaningless since I'm only 18 and I can't have met anyone important. Silly me.
>>By Flagg (Tuesday, 31 Oct 2006 12:03)
L2R
> Lynn spoke of hiding motivations. No. Wrong!! All people all have a part of themself that they don't share with anyone---nothing exciting or sinister...we label it privacy.
That's consciously, there's also such thing as subconsciously.
Flagg,
> I'm sure at least some of that is true for a lot of people. I assume you're just mentioning it and not applying it to anyone in particular?
I suppose it applies to 99% of people so it just don't apply to those who think they're so special they belong to that other 1%
;-)
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 31 Oct 2006 12:19)
The discussion board is currently closed.
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