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| Discussion: Jack At my school, karate is taught as street fighting. It's not some special little club where we think we're better than everyone else and have never been in a real fight. You're right of course, I haven't, but I want to. I want to get my ass kicked a couple of times and see how I feel, and then I'll practice more and get better and the next time I'll win, because karate is not some vague ideal of coolness that only really exists in Bruce Lee films, it's the best martial art in the world, regardless of how young and naive the person doing it is. >>By Flagg I don't understand the statement above. >>By lv2read Sorry I wasn't very clear. I was conceding JJ's point that I haven't ever been in a real fight, and I was saying I'm eager to learn by getting my ass kicked a couple of times. I'm not quite sure what you were getting at anyway JJ. You seem to think the martial arts are about pretending you're better than everyone else and don't need to worry about getting hurt. They're not, they're about fighting. >if you're into martial arts, you must know about consequences. Someone hits you hard enough, you go to sleep. The martial arts are based on that fact, they don't try and get away from it. >>By Flagg Flagg, I don't like you, but I don't want you to get in a "real" fight. In a real fight, dude, the asshole you're fighting isn't going to be as nice as you--he's gonna pull out a blade and stab you, or his friends are gonna jump on you. I don't agree with your belief about karate, but the important thing is, man...you're really smart. You don't need to fight. Martial arts is a beautiful thing and a great thing to dedicate one's leisure to. But fighting? That's ugly, stupid, brutal. I was joking when I said go start a fight, dude--you're a great debater and though we often disagree you defend your ideas well. That's worth way more than what you'll have to offer if you become the sort of person who relishes violence. I've been down that road and I have never been truly happy since. Please believe me when I say you have more to offer. Merry Christmas and all that to everyone with the balls to post and discuss here. >>By Just Jon Thank you. But I wouldn't be happy devoting myself to the martial arts unless I knew it worked, that I COULD defend myself if I had to. From what I've seen, it doesn't have to be over if you're outnumbered or if they have a knife or even a gun - you can always do something about it. Maybe you're right, maybe that's a stupid, young thing to say. But I don't want to treat the martial arts as a hobby, when they were designed as a way of fighting. >>By Flagg Then let your character be your strength, Flagg. You will become a great martial artist and a great fighter if you use it only when necessary--or when fighting others in a controlled environment where the intention isn't to hurt a weaker opponent or prove something. Enter tournaments (full contact of course, not gay shit), and I would say definitely fight in tournaments where it's not just karate or any one style. Otherwise, wrestlers will come in and--miss one kick, they'll have you on your back. Also, boxers will beat the living fuck out of someone, so fight those guys any chance you get, or even train at a gym now and then to get used to what they do. My personal experience with striking-type arts (TKD) wasn't as positive as yours, but then again I did wrestle and I'm a short little dude so maybe that's why I wasn't that great at karate, etc. I'm an asshole here arguing just as I would be ruthless fighting you, but I'm really glad you came back and I'm looking forward to our next big argument. L2R, PE, whoever...let's pick a topic and go at it! >>By Just Jon Well thanks for the advice. I appreciate it, even though I still don't like you. Actually though, short guys have a big advantage in the martial arts. The closer you are to the floor, the harder it is to fall over :) >>By Flagg The day I tried to live, I stole a thousand beggars' change and gave it to the rich. The day I tried to live, I wallowed in the blood and mud with all the other pigs. And I learned that I was a liar. Just like you. >>By Flagg FLAGG <<<The day I tried to live, I stole a thousand beggars' change and gave it to the rich. The day I tried to live, I wallowed in the blood and mud with all the other pigs. And I learned that I was a liar. Just like you.>>> I'm missing something here... >>By lv2read Soundgarden lyrics. My Christmas message to the Jack board. >>By Flagg Flagg I googled Soundgarden lyrics and understand no more now than before. Words are abstractions----what on earth is the message?? How does that music reach anyone other than your generation? >>By lv2read That's a very good question. I interpret the song as a warning to idealistic young people who wake up one day and want to change the world. The song is called 'The Day I Tried To Live' and it seems to be about a guy who normally just coasts through life doing nothing who wakes up one day with a voice in his head telling him to go out and make a difference to all the injustice around him, so he tries and everything just goes wrong. I've been listening to it a lot lately and it seemed kind of relevant to this message board. You don't have to pay any attention to it if you don't want to. >>By Flagg Flagg I think we'd all like to make a difference....and we just get cynical. I deal with this challenge as follows...try to do the best that I can, try to take good care of my family and my extended family (my employees) and try to set a good example by positive, productive behavior. If each of us endeavor to try our hardest, collectively the society may be elevated. Very simple. Very obvious!! >>By lv2read Healthy. >>By Flagg Flagg, good topic. I think I understand the point of the lyrics, though we also have to look at those at those lyrics through the p.o.v. of the dude who wrote them--a guy who got very rich without contributing a great deal to the world's musical heritage--or giving a lot of those riches to charity. I think the basic question is, what is idealism, what does it mean to try to change the world, to help others, to "make a difference," if you will? Well...depends. We are all uniquely qualified. I can't help millions of people, I am not in the right circumstances at the right time. Bill Gates can, and he is. A great artist can contribute to millions as well--I can't do that, either. A brave soldier might turn the tide of war and save a helpless country from destruction--I can't do that because I'm an American and we're always the aggressors as of late. L2R and I have this in common--we are old enough to realize we can't change the world, yet not so cynical we don't try to help where we can. We need money to do that, and that was the one thing I didn't grasp when I was young. Money is power--power to help, power to hurt, power to buy a million ads saying how evil money is. If you're unwilling to work for the money, you're unwilling to work for change. Just my two cents (actually...about fifteen bucks, but what the hell). >>By Just Jon Maybe it's enough to settle for the kind of small changes you can make without money. Even all the money in the world can't make *everything* better because people use it all wrong. So maybe it's enough to do enough to change things for one person. Better than settling for nothing at least. >>By Flagg Oh, and for me and a lot of other people my age (and older, and younger) Chris Cornell has contributed an enormous amount to the world's musical heritage. The world's musical heritage is seen differently by everyone (just like everything else is). Maybe if God came down and said ''Well I'm all-seeing and all-knowing and from up there it's quite clear that Soundgarden aren't a very important part of My creation'' then you'd have a point. >>By Flagg Saddam Hanged A new day for Iraq....a closure of sorts?? Maniac, Sarcoidiot....silence is golden??? Planet Ear....while your silence has been appreciated, why don't you tell the board what a great day this is. Tchock, why don't you tell us what Lenin would have done differently? Flagg, Saddam HAD to GO. >>By lv2read He did have to go, and he went. He didn't have to die. There have been protests, predictably. I guess the violence will get more intense for a while. What would have been wrong with life imprisonment? >>By Flagg To see a man swing from the noose - regardless of his heinous crimes - should sicken anyone. It is amazing - one thousand years on from the Dark Ages - we're still into hanging. Oh we've got democracy, human rights & a shopping mall - but goddamn you if you take away our right to hang people. Tell me - what makes you think America has any righteousness now ??? They killed a man - what makes them any better than Saddam himself ?? www.msn.com I went to check my email today & saw that news article (it should be still the one on the front). What kind of society publishes the video of the final moments of someone's death - especially in such a brutal fashion ?? What a sick & twisted world we live in............ but isn't it great we've got Sky Digital ?? & Lenin - well I believe under his rule all the remaining members of the Tsarist royal family were beheaded.........so yeah - I really rather think he would have done the same thing. I mean after all - Trotski was allowed to let his Red Army in the Civil War castrate/hang/torture the Whites (main opposition). Yeah - they were all a bunch of sick bastards - what's new ?? Two quotes - one from someone we should all know, another from someone a little less known (here on the Jack board anyway) "An eye for an eye makes the world blind." "They went and built a capsule in the cyanide one Where the holiest of water would have you to drown." Why did Saddam HAVE to be killed ??? >>By Tchock Tchock An eye for an eye is an improvement over the times that the authorities would go after a family member of the accused if they couldn't locate the offender. What is your point re Lenin? Am I missing something here? Flagg Where did I say that I favored capital punishment? >>By lv2read <An eye for an eye is an improvement over the times that the authorities would go after a family member of the accused if they couldn't locate the offender.> How wonderful. Surely they're both as bad as each other ?? Oh and the reason the Russian royal family were all beheaded was that the peasants feared that the Whites would bring back the autocracy & Tsarism.... the Reds made sure that this was not going to happen. My point about Lenin ?? Lenin may have also killed any former Tsarist leader/upkeeper of autocracy. (i'e a Saddam of Russia) Hence answering your question "What Lenin would have done differently?" He would NOT have done it differently. By the way - Russia's history is just a tad more complicated than you might think. I'll let Flagg answer this fully, but I think you basically said you favoured capital punishment a few pages back.............. >>By Tchock I don't know if you said that or not. But you said (to me) that Saddam had to go and I just pointed out that he had already gone. He didn't have to die. >>By Flagg Tchock <An eye for an eye is an improvement over the times that the authorities would go after a family member of the accused if they couldn't locate the offender.> How wonderful. Surely they're both as bad as each other ??>>> A very 17 year old response. Hint....the Offender deserves punishment, NOT the Offender's family. Ask any adult!!! Capital punishment...you'll impress Sarcoidiot, Bian and the rest of the gang....but where did I don't endorse CP personally? But, if it is the law, it should be upheld!! In a country as unstable as Iraq, do you really believe that Saddam would suffer life imprisonment if the insurgents prevailed?? Hint....that would not be allowed to happen. If you could convince me that life imprisonment would be guaranteed, I would favor it. He should suffer longer like many of his victims did.......surely you agree. >>By lv2read I never mentioned insurgents. And regardless of the law of the country, I think the death penalty is wrong. Saddam himself was no longer a direct threat to anyone once he was in custody. The entire western world suddenly forgot about him as soon as he was out of the papers, surprise surprise. What would have been wrong with leaving it like that? No one knows where he is, he lives on his own in a cell for the rest of his life. >Hint....the Offender deserves punishment, NOT the Offender's family. And here you make it sound as if Tchock said the offender's family deserves punishment. She didn't she said it's as bad to kill a person who committed a crime as it is to kill someone who didn't, and as it happens I agree with her. Killing is killing. >>By Flagg Oh yes I quite agree - the offender should reap the punishment........... but that punishment should not be death.......... Forgive me for actually understanding what Ghandi said........stupid of me really. "If it's the law it should be upheld" It's the law in Saudi Arabia that if you steal a loaf of bread then you get your hands chopped off. But goodammit it should be upheld. I'll assume everyone's heard about the mobile-phone video of his death ??? Look on the BBC news website.......... lv2read - is that "justice" or is it just barbaric ??? Let the punishment fit the crime - but don't make the punishment a crime itself........... >>By Tchock Tchock Let the punishment fit the crime - but don't make the punishment a crime itself...........>>> Right!! And how many people did he kill? Several thousand??? If CP was intended for anyone, it was intended for Saddam?? How about child murderers, men that raoe and kill the aged?? Flagg and Tchock, you might want to rethink your positions. I see that we are starting out 2007 in the same manner we initiated 2006.....and I was hoping for a little maturity from both of you. Flagg Killing is killing.....are you serious?? Killing animals....killing in self defense...and on and on and on. Flagg your position is indefensable. And Tchock, you don't know better. Tchock aren't you calling it barbaric you watch the execution? Isn't that one of the things JJ said...like people being savage like?? The Iraqi people have demanded to VIEW the execution/ The more you chat with JJ, the more you sound the same!! Talk about surprise, surprise. Would you list some more attributes of Lenin that you admire....him being a peace monger, mindful of personal liberties, respectful of opposition candidates....and the like. Where did I say that I favored capital punishment? >>By lv2read Ok ok, animals and self-defense are something else. But killing for revenge? Or to appease a mob? It's still wrong. >>By Flagg Flagg Mob mentality is hard to define...a small vocal minority can sound and appear as a mob. I would like to see CP abolished provided court trials could be concluded in an expeditions manner. In America it will take a majority to set aside CP. And if the court system continues to be apologetic for violent criminals, I don't see it happening. And Happy New Year to you and all of your family. >>By lv2read What is Tchock saying? I agree that CP is barbaric and wrong, but she seems to be clearly saying that we should force the Iraqis to obey someone else's notion of proper punishment. Take the Saudis and the hand-chopping--should we use military force to change their judicial system? If she's merely offended that people are happy he's dead, that's even worse. I'm glad he's dead--he was an evil, murdering bastard. I don't have to approve of the circumstances to find his death funny and entertaining (and no, I haven't watched the video). By the way, if hanging is done properly it's not at all such a bad way to go. Saddam apparently went very quickly. It basically depends on whether you asphyxiate or your neck is snapped. Of course, too far in the latter direction and you get a decapitation, which, though quick, REALLY offends people like Tchock. In the South we've been known to leave certain types dangling with their toes touching the ground--much worse than what Saddam experienced, though it makes for better video. >>By Just Jon |