Andy Mcnab
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If there something like the Real B20 on BBC would you let me know? Those are only uk channels I can get here in Holland.
And Boris, I am a sheep, not a ram. Bèèèèèhh
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 14 Jun 2003 21:58)
oh yeah thanx AIB i forgot they did that yeah i can get it now!!!!
thanx scouse definatly watching that but i dont remember if i have discovery oh well i will find out when i try and find it and its not there. ;-)
soz lynn or whoever i stole your smiley face hahahahahaha
>>By christina (Saturday, 14 Jun 2003 22:11)
p.s thanx to whoever posted the time for ultimate force ( ithink its called that right i cant remember) you didnt put down your name!?!
>>By christina (Saturday, 14 Jun 2003 22:15)
Bummer, Scouse! And can you believe it? I only just missed that last Concorde flight by minutes!
Is it definitely the Discovery Channel? Do you have a specific channel (I ask because we have lots of different Discovery's--history, wings, civilization, etc.) or do you have a UK website you can direct me to? Yeah, I know, I'm being a pest -- believe me, I've been told that more times than you could guess... but I promise, I would be ever so grateful to you! ;o)
>>By am-i-binned (Saturday, 14 Jun 2003 22:26)
no its just the Discovery channel i think cause in my TV magazine it says that the real B20 thing is on discovery channel
>>By christina (Saturday, 14 Jun 2003 22:47)
Boris, RE your statement: but don't f..k with me. I warn you.
I don't f**k with anyone who says "I warn you", I'm far more intrigued as to whether the threat is meant to scare the recipient!
Ah, but of course, Italy, the land of the Italian Mafia, though the Sicilian Mafia is more on a par with your average SAS guy: more gritty, more daring, and extremely efficient on silent snuff jobs.
Oh dear, you live in Tuscany? Hell, it's full of aged bourgeois Brits sniffing lemon balm and spooning back gulps of extra Virgin olive oil. Tuscany, known as "LERCMI - Little England Retirement Complex for the Mentally Impaired"...Seriously, you've got to get away from there or you'll grow old before your time.
Wow, all those places you listed. You're not looking to work in the travel/leisure industry are you, or real estate? Do you know, I quite felt as though I'd done the grand tour all over again. Didn't I read somewhere that Italy is mentioned in Dark Winter, or was that another book?
E-mail will be on its way, tomorrow!
Am-I-binned: post my e-mail here? You got to be joking after the last one I posted was compromised in a none too pleasant way...
Christina: anon e-mail portal means one in which your identity remains anonymous...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 02:50)
Silence from 02.40 Sat (GMT) to 09.05 Sun...Where does that put us in terms of world map ref. It's more usual for those Stateside to be most active around the 14.00 - 04.00 (GMT) mark.
Damn, the jungle drums are active this morning. <boom boom> another e-mail beckons.
There's a new programme about to hit the small screen (UK) -doco on SAS books and authors, published/unpublished -supposedly controversial in content and quite revealing...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 10:05)
hi buddy this is a specially made email add sorry its a hotmail one but all of my addresses are ! :
veryconfused20@hotmail.com
if you send me an email i will send you my email add that i use which sorry is also a hotmail one!
whats that programme called do you know and when is it on?
so did anybody watch the documentry on the real B20 i did it was interesting.
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 10:30)
Hi there, Christina.
I know this is an old article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-531632,00.html
But, if you read the ref to Andy McNab it's hilarious, and apparently gave inspiration for the SAS author doco...
I have no idea when it's due for showing, I just know a couple of the men who were contacted (unpublished writers).
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 10:38)
lol it is funny i also read the ref ro ann widicombe(spell check). so is the hotmail address ok then?
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 10:47)
RE: Medals etc.
Only FOUR members of the patrol were awarded medals, however, ALL of the members of B20 received a £1000 cash award - which the Brit Gov taxed them on in their pay-slips...
>>By Bullingham (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 10:58)
thanx Bullingham
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 11:04)
Ooh yes we dohave the mafia here aswell, but it's mainly in the south where you have to be carefull. Here it' s full of albanees men and womenwho have to prostitute themselves.
The men mainly go out robbing and have the whole drug situation under hand. I don't want to be rassist but they are quite arrogant and they do scare me when I see them. Some of my patients are albanees but they are here working with regular immigration papers and are really nice people.
As for the english here in tuscany, well we have Sting living here next door who throws a party every now and then. Then we have Richard Gere who goes for his buddist practice to Pomarance. And there are many more. Lots of germans too. Tourists vary from all ages, dependswhere you go and what you're looking for. And don't worry I'm not growing old here.
Pitty I can't take Bbc here although I do have discovery channel aswell. Once I saw a docu. about the sas invading the falklands, nice one. One about the training of the navy seals, and aboutthe training of the royal marines (wich I thought didn't differ much with that of the sas).
And for Lynn. Hé waar woon je ergens in holland, ik heb nog in Belgie gewoond in Knokke, mooie stad.
Tipicall of the english gov. prising the sas soldiers with 1000 £ and then taxing them for it, and I mean it's just ridiculous. Nice one Bulliingham.
>>By boris (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 12:51)
Official Assassin by Captain Peter Mason. - good book
Mason served in the SAS during WW2, then as a British intelligence operator - for 30 years. Heavy on tradecraft and weapons, as Mason pursues German fugitives and penetrates an active IRA cell, but it does show how effective the SAS were with basic weaponry compared to today's high tech ops...
In fact, of late, I'm a tad tired of novels/films with heroes reliant upon high-tech gear to achieve their goals...Sci Fi is now reality and pretty damn boring at that - no soul.
I love books/films that make one step back and think (!) - indepth and psychologically disturbing, but I can't for the life of me get my head around Matrix Re-loaded. It seems to have lost connection with the original plot = non-sensical fight scenes representing the age old theme of good vs evil. ((yawn yawn))
You know, there's something to be said for the likes of the Andy McNab's of this world and good old bows and arrows. I really must get around to reading beyond and before Crisis Four...Trouble is, I've got a bit of thing about JTCH books at the mo...
By the way, check out the article Sunday Times 15/06/03: Ex-SAS man "framed" for Kabul killings...BLOODY YANKS!!!
SBS/Royal Marines, Boris: Ah, they're a more shady bunch than their brothers' in the SAS. SBS/MRs are more tight-lipped and their commanders are against PR stunts...
Look to your mailboxes C & B...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 13:30)
Buddy, just looked nothing there..
>>By boris (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 13:42)
It should be: from Devonwren, and that's not tweety bird wren...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 13:56)
Tuscany, yeah, Germaine Greer had a pad there, probably rents it out to the Hindu kishers & Bhuddists - I think she got pee'd off when the celeb caravan rolled in...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 14:01)
Hi, Lynn
I’ve read all of AM’s books – I started with B20, then IA and the rest as they were published. “list of authors-I-will-do-without to buy “ – when I’m strapped for cash, which is most of the time (and why I had two jobs), I cut back on something like food to buy books by a select list of authors whom I consider are worth reading, and then re-reading: hence I need my own copy rather than one from the library. Why do I read AM? I’ve read a great deal, both fiction and non-fiction and I’ve done a lot of research. I have trunks full of books whose pages are annotated for reference purposes and interestingly, B20 was actually required reading for various British institutions teaching defence studies aka peace studies as they are now called! However, I don’t do much of that anymore, so I read what I want and what I like, like AM.
buddy
Thanks for the welcome - you say that you are the widow of a soldier, that’s good enough for me. Been reading your posts but whilst I don’t really care what anybody looks like, what I would like to know are things like: AM writes somewhere that he was told that what he was doing was important but that eventually his own conclusion was that this was not true, a sad statement. So, what brought about this change of heart? Maturity, reflection, experience? Also, what sort of real support do people get now if they have bad experiences, or is the old “deal with it” mentality still prevalent? I watched some of what we were meant to see on tv about the attempts that were made to support families of personnel serving in the gulf, and the impression given by some of those concerned was that they were slightly nonplussed at being seen to be doing this sort of thing. Is there support for families during and after a crisis or is it still down to peer support from other families? That’s the sort of thing that I think about – about the culture in my society which would lead what are clearly very brave people to question what they believed in and were prepared to die for. Yeah, I know, I’m sad, but this is what keeps me happy, thinking about ideas like that. That, and “too poncy”. That was really funny.
am-i-binned
No clean one-liners yet! As for casting Crisis Four, I’ve been thinking about who could realistically pull it off and I’m not having much luck, but I think that whoever plays Stone should have a face which reflects the life that he has led. Most of the actors I can think of don’t fit the bill.
I can’t think of anything else that I would want to discuss at the moment until I’ve re-read all the posts. I’ve glanced through them quickly and some of them are very interesting. I’ve already tried having sensible discussions with people at work, for instance with a Colonel in the TA, but he whipped out pictures of what he cheerfully informed me were light machine guns on some field or other, and then we had a meaningful discussion about the design of female serving personnel’s kit, so I am now clued in to the fact that underwear is not part of the design process; something that I am sure will come in handy!
boris
You live in Italy and boy, would I love to be there if it’s that hot. I’ve only ever passed through on my way somewhere else. Yesterday was actually a nice day, so I made the most of ‘summer’, cos today it’s back to grey, cold, thermals and the wind! Not that I don’t love this country but… I know that I’m home when the banks, bars and tan stands start appearing in threes on every street!
>>By Mhorag (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 15:07)
About Vince Phillips
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12522364&method=full&siteid=50143
>>By Swedish Reader (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 15:35)
Welcome again, Mhorag!
As you read through some of our older postings, you will see that we have touched on subject areas which interest you, some more in depth than others, but, as I mentioned to you, we are never reticent about revisiting any topics here, be they trivial or deadly serious. I do not find anything at all "sad" about your ideas. What is sad is exactly what you question -- the culture and circumstances, the disappointment and disillusionment, the betrayal of implicit faith and loyalties, not only of such brave people as these but also our own sense of betrayal for their sakes, because we admire, respect and relate to the sacrifies they were and amazingly still are willing to make. And you do have me intrigued as to your line of work considering your comment about discussions with people at work -- can you share more? (I did have to grin at your comments about research and trunkloads of annotated books, oooh, can I relate or what...)
Welcome, Bullingham...
Thank you for answering my question. But it's very sad answer indeed! I was hoping it was more a matter of Dinger, Mike and Mal still being in the Regiment at the time B20 was written and that maybe their awards/medals/whatever could not be mentioned due to their active status. Too optimistic a hope, I see. Sadly, too, this also relates back to your comments, Mhorag...
Hi, Buddy,
I'm sure this is another UK vs US thing -- "poncy" I know, but can you translate please: floccinauccinihilipilification...is it all in the pronunciation? I cannot access the Sunday Times article for some reason this morning, will have to read that one later I guess...
Hi again, Swedish reader...
Thanks for the ref to the article on VP. I really still don't understand the stuff about AM having criticized VP. CR, yes, definitely, but not AM in his book. The only place I did see it was in the film version of B20, so is that what they're referring to as AM criticizing VP?
>>By am-i-binned (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 16:43)
Mhorag:
You said: AM writes somewhere that he was told that what he was doing was important but that eventually his own conclusion was that this was not true, a sad statement. So, what brought about this change of heart? Maturity, reflection, experience?
<<Your last question answers both the above. After all, a boy soldier becomes part of an indoctrinated system of military jargon/bullshit where they are not paid to think they are paid to act upon orders! Young boys either love being in the military or hate it, and if the latter they get themselves out: one way or another...Based on AM's early childhood experiences and longevity of military service, (quoth McNab) the lesser of two evils was to stay put in an environment where his every need was catered for, with one exception: love which he had to find for himself - not a difficulty for most soldiers/seamen/airmen.>>
You said: Also, what sort of real support do people get now if they have bad experiences, or is the old "deal with it" mentality still prevalent?
<<That all depends on which system personnel are serving in and who gets the greatest slice of the funding cake and who suffers from cutbacks, Navy, Airforce, Army, usually in that order. Then again, if you've read Freefall by Charles (Nish) Bruce', I think you'll see the blackhole that exists within a system that hasn't moved (medically/morally) much beyond that of WWI "shell-shock" victims, as in ETC treatment, and hot-trot visits to an MoD psychologist/psychiatrist. Tell him/her you don't feel up to any of what is expected of you and your out of the service - unless they need a head-case for a suicidal mission!!!>>
Is there support for families during and after a crisis or is it still down to peer support from other families?
<<Service support for non-commissioned officers wives didn't exist before WW II and didn't really come into play until much later. A lot of 'young' commissioned officer's widow married the next available single/widowed officer in line during WWI & II, more especially if they were pregnant. Little has changed on the financial front, and the MoD motto in the face of tragedy: Change is bad for the Constitution. A case of: "tell 'em quick, spare 'em the details, offer a hand of sympathy, and hope they got some friends to help out.">>
You said: That's the sort of thing that I think about – about the culture in my society which would lead what are clearly very brave people to question what they believed in and were prepared to die for.
<<Full circle: how many recruits to the military question the ethics of a system in which they will be expected to kill and possibly be killed? How many of them see beyond the words: Join the Bizz and See the World? How many wannabe Andy McNab's are vying for selection to the SAS, right now? Sadly, the realisation that history has a habit of repeating itself usually comes to those in retirement or those who were dealt a bum card, like soldiers who suddenly find their one-time enemies are now their allies. Disconcerting or what, but it's just another re-run of Same People, Different Hats. Same old War Games, Different Political Motives (?), perhaps not...>>
Passing thought: Whichever way you look at it - the world - some of us live in the 21 century, others have partial 21st century trappings alongside horrendous poverty, and some are no further advanced than our forefathers the hunter gatherers.>>
Am-I-Binned: Poncy - intellectually effeminate - Noel Coward!
Stuff about AM criticising VP/CR is backroom knowledge escaping into public domain...
No one is above slighting another. AM is no angel, and someone put in the original (official) report after B20. The group commander's report would have held more clout at the time! Need I say more, hence the recent agro about a certain select committee....
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 18:58)
hi
welcome mhorag and bullingham
thanx swedish reader for the ref for the article it was interesting
remeber people Live The Dream
i got your email buddy thanx.
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:01)
posted "poncy" translation for those not familiar with.
floccinauccinihilipilification - set the words apart...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:05)
sorry buddy but Clout?????
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:24)
Thank you, Buddy. Your post to Mhorag is clearly when you are at your best and in your element. It is what I've always valued most about you -- so much interesting food for thought.
In light of the gravity of that post, I regret asking but I'm still curious. I did know "ponce", but "floccinauccinihilipilification" I did not. I'm thinking it's tongue-in-cheek Brit humour, maybe having to do with the pronunciation of the word, and you say to set the words apart, but I'm still at a loss...
>>By am-i-binned (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:25)
"floccinauccinihilipilification" yeah sorry again but like AIB i still dont understand it!
and Clout?
Do you eat dictionaries or something;-)
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:28)
floccinauccinihilipilification = pointless, meaningless, etc.
clout = metaphorical punch (power)
Christina: I said I'd send pics that didn't have blacked out eyes!! Nice row of tight bums, though...
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:55)
ok then buddy if somebody came on and read that last post they would be scared lol
did you send that pic to Boris lol
>>By christina (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 19:57)
Same pics to Boris.
Go look at this url Mhorag: http://www.specialforces.co.uk/home.htm
Use the scroll bar at bottom of page, and select "Dirty Diaries" from left-hand column.
It's old info but incredibly revealing in respect of an organisation voluntarily run by ex-SAS men for the benefit of other members....Also, look up Simon King!
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 20:23)
B****R, should have said, select "Support Index" at bottom of page then follow though with: Use the scroll bar at bottom of page, and select "Dirty Diaries" from left-hand column.
>>By buddy (Sunday, 15 Jun 2003 20:28)
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