Andy Mcnab
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BTGTUTCHFB, FRU are officially part of the SIS which incorporates both MI5 & MI6. MI6 are strictly international defence/intelligence, with MI5 being the home defence so to speak. However, the Irish issue is a slightly delicate matter, with Eire being regarded as a seperate EU state, and NI part of the UK. Therefore MI5 & MI6 work quite closely together on this - hence a seperate wing - FRU.
They tend to use members of the SAS as they have been operating on both sides of the border for so long - many served as regulars in their old units too - because they are so familar with all involved in the situ. This also ties in with 14 Int. group who provide info for FRU et al. They all work together like one happy family LOL!
As for the squadrons in Iraq, it's one of those things that we KNOW they were there, but details are scarce. No doubt it'll appear in a book some years from now...
Hope I've been of some use! I'd better shut up now before I get a visit from the 'boys in black'
Uh oh, who's that knocking at the door...
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Sunday, 18 May 2003 11:02)
Ah cheers
At the risk of sounding like my former Fenian Bastard self, according to both Tim Pat Coogan and J. Bowyer Bell, MI5 and MI6 were sort of in a "feud" over who had Ulster. Any idea who actually won?
>>By By That Guy That Used to Call Himself Fenian Basta (Sunday, 18 May 2003 11:21)
Cub ears well and truly cuffed!!!!
I'll defend the honour of SAS/SBS superiority over other SFs where experience of terrorists/terrorism is concerned, the reason being other SFs are only just beginning to build on active street-fighting service against terrorist factions - in conjunction with vital input from SAS/SBS expertise...
As for the AM message board: it will attract undesirables, not necessarily that of flamers etc. I suggest sticking to onboard chat only, for you don't know who you're inviting back for coffee at your offboard place....
>>By buddy (Sunday, 18 May 2003 14:55)
any one read up on STAKEKNIFE?
that's why we are moving on
take care
>>By paul (Sunday, 18 May 2003 22:48)
Despite your dire warnings, Buddy, I still see value in the privacy that offboarding affords. The mere fact that the publicly posted email4gnod was compromised tells me a "buffer" box needs to exist to facilitate safe exchanges, all of which are completely voluntary -- there is no vetting, no interrogation, no inclusive/exclusive clique as you so vehemently allege. You may see it your way, but I will mean it mine, and if that results in a severe cuffing and buffeting by your ever-changing winds, so be it.
I never claimed to be a perfect conduit, I do not have all the best answers. I am an untrained novice/volunteer at this, but I perceived a need and I offered to help, not as a control freak but as a friend. Have you been caught up in your world of intrigue for so long that you no longer know how to trust when someone is genuine?
If someone here decides they'd like to go to the next level or share something strictly with another, exactly how do you suggest they do that if not through offboarding privately? Give me a better solution, since you seem to be the keeper of oh-so-many answers, and I will gladly institute it. Or maybe you would like to administer for us?
Apologies please, MG and All, for my attitude -- this is probably best posted in the message archive, but since it addresses Buddy's suggestion of sticking to onboard chat only, I decided to post here.
>>By am-i-binned (Sunday, 18 May 2003 23:16)
death in mirror sounds like and sombody geting bad cookie
>>By potnoodle (Monday, 19 May 2003 00:18)
Hi all,
I'm new here so go easy - reading some of the latest postings things are looking tense...
As this is an Andy McNab site, thought I'd make a few comments. This is probably old ground for you guys so bare with me.
There's a lot of debate over who's the best writer between McNab and Chris Ryan. Judging by the amount of postings on CR's site and this one - AM's got it in the bag!
However, has anyone read The Kremlin Device by CR? I have to say that is the only CR book I feel rivals anything by AM - especially Liberation Day 7/10 as opposed to the usual 10/10. Also the ending to Stand by Stand by is one of the most powerful I think I've ever read. On the other hand though, I started reading Tenth Man Down and gave up after a handful of chapters because I found it boring - something I'd never do with a McNab book.
What's your views on this, and does anyone have any info regarding Dark Winter - release dates, story lines etc. And if so, where did you get the info?
>>By Sheba (Monday, 19 May 2003 00:51)
Hi sheba and welcome to hell (at the mo) :-)
As you can see this is a forum dedicated to AM,but were always open to debate on other Author's in the same genre,and CR definately fits that bill.
Couple of questions for you: Are Ryan's books a series like AM's or are they a different story in each one? What is the main character like? Is he similar to Nick Stone? (ok 3 questions)
Re DW.I think the book should be out in october.AIB is the man to ask about the background info.
>>By scouse (Monday, 19 May 2003 01:19)
Please ignore my ignorance, but did I miss something here? Buddy, what exactly were you saying.
AM board attracting undesirables?
Cub ears and cuffing?
offboard chatting?
Apologies if I've missed something here, but have I???
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Monday, 19 May 2003 01:45)
Welcome, Sheba...
Haven't really hit the city limits of Hell yet (least I hope not!), but this is a damn rocky road. Think right now we're passin' thru the lil town of Purgatory, just west of Limbo, due north of Perdition. Problem is we keep losing the frappin' sketch map!
Pretty sure Lynn, and maybe some of our newer folks, can answer your CR questions. TOTGA is my only CR so far. The info you seek on Dark Winter is the top posting on pg 17.
Glad you're out, about, and hangin' in, Scouse -- I did not miss your point. Must ask you though, Scouse, did the LD lines refresh your mem? And while we're talking about LD, one comment: Even though, for me, LD may not have been on a par with Andy's earlier books, the impact of the final chapters struck me far, far more intensely than any of his previous books.
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 19 May 2003 02:07)
Can I say as newbie wanting to join Mr McNab's Forum that it is most usual for people to post a hotmail box name for own offboard friendships. I have asked over and over would I want mail man to read my mail before it is put in my mailbox. No I would not and it has crossed my mind who would trust a person they can not see and who they do not know, but who will know every one elses business.
Oh goody some one else is Chris Ryan fan. I like tthe way he writes sometimes better than Andy McNab.
>>By monalisacando (Monday, 19 May 2003 02:28)
Sorry, Hoarwithy, just saw that you must have posted while I was answering Sheba earlier. You needn't apologize -- a storm has blown in again. If you look through the message archive, you may find some answers.
Specifically to the offboard issue: Some of the long-time posters here correspond offboard also. To allow exchange of private email addresses without posting them onboard, a "buffer" mailbox was set up (email4gnod@aol). This buffer box was compromised yesterday and has been shutdown. Offboarding can keep disagreements private and/or allow conversations which might be too personal/sensitive for a public forum. A new buffer account has been established but I will wait to see if any (newer) posters, indicate an interest in offboarding before I figure out a way to communicate the new mailbox address.
Now, Monalisacando (Welcome by the way), this comes to your "mail man" issue. Very simply, if you wanted to contact Poster Z, you would email the buffer saying so. Assuming Z had also contacted the buffer, Z would receive an email saying Monalisacando wants to offboard. Z then decides yes or no. If yes, addresses are exchanged. If no, you receive a decline. One proviso: Suppose you’re willing but Z is not, however, Z has offended you in a posting. You could argue vociferously onboard, piss everyone else off, and end up banished/deleted, or you could email the buffer to forward your dispute to Z, and keep your issues private. Z can again decide whether to contact you directly or not. The point is you have the option. You don't have to disrupt everyone else by getting them caught up in your disagreement. A perfect case in point is the current message archive, which is full right now, in an effort to control and minimize the damage of disruptive onboard issues!
Speaking personally, I'm very happy with the all new (and some not-so-new) folks who are establishing themselves here -- and I sincerely hope we can ride out the current turbulence together. Maybe all this edginess will really come down to a severe case of growning pains....
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 19 May 2003 03:54)
Hey am-i-binned you must be top gun around here I guess.
Just about understood your Z theory but can see monalisacando's worry over who gets to read her mail first. Feel sure you must be a nice guy or girl same time tho I'll post my own mailbox thanks when I get to know you all some. Anyone wanna post me great, anyone who don't I won't cry over it. Heck, I wouldn't want your jb ambi
McNab sure got a Bronx attitude, could've lived there all his life the way he writes. Nice talking guys hope I can stay around long enough to post up a mailbox. Read thro the list like you said to ambi and I kinda liked that buddy guy's spirit. Woman I know I read that bit, and she got the biz on all the places I bin to in England. Sore point with you tho. Bit jealous huh coz she been around with Mcnab and SAS and you ain't. That's life girl, you gotta be a girl coz only girls get all uppety like you is right now about some guy in a book.
Hey guys whos who around here? Give me some man talk.
>>By wingman (Monday, 19 May 2003 10:01)
Holland, are you still there? Perhaps you could translate wingmans post into English ;0) VBW
Welcome wingman, so how far in the McNab series are you? and whats your fave books in order?
AIB - I'm with Sheba on CR (welcome Sheba by the way). I too read The Kremlin Device and it's by far Ryans best book. I'm probably qualified to talk about both - as I have read most or all by both of them. Here goes:
Andy McNab - I've read his work from the begining in published order, and I would feel cheated or as though I missed out if I hadn't and one day picked up CF, FW, LL or LD without first reading RC. It's an on-going story making you want more and more.
Chris Ryan - unlike McNab, you could pick up any CR book and the story is literally a stand alone with very little reference to past books. Whether this is better or worse is for each individual to decide. You also get the feeling that Geordie Sharp is 100% Ryan with very little else put in. Where as although Nick Stone is based on AM, I feel he's been moulded slightly different.
Ryan has just brought out a new book in the UK in which it's written in the 3rd person viewpoint and there is a different hero (don't know what happened to Sharp!). I haven't read this so cannot coment, but I think it shows Ryan is trying to develop his talent by trying something new (even though the new hero is another SAS Sgt...)
Finally, Chris Ryan co-wrote a mini-series on ITV1 in the UK called Ultimate Force. Ryan also co-starred himself with former EastEnder Ross Kemp (AKA Grant Mitchell) so his anonyminity is well and truly gone now!
It was a brilliant mini-series and I have to say fair play to him- he's not a bad actor either! They also managed to use the old Stirling Lines for filming as it had been empty for some time and even filmed the pub scenes in The Game Cock Public House so its authenticity was incredible.
So the verdict is this:
Undoubtably McNab writes a better book and creates stronger characters, however, he hasn't done anything FICTIONAL other than Nick Stone.
Ryan, may not be as strong a writer, but has now released a new novel in a different style, and has co-written a fictional TV series.
If I had to choose I'd still remain loyal to AM, but I think credit should be given to Ryan for trying. If you haven't read any CR fiction yet I would reccomend the following 2 books to get you started in THIS order:
Stan by Stand by - the first book in the Georsie Sharp series.
The Kremlin Device - The best book he's written with an excellent story and the only book by CR to rival our main man.
I'd disagree with Sheba on 10th Man Down. OK, Remote Control it's not, but she(he?) should read it to the end as Ryan has a knack of providing us with a blinding ending everytime - perhaps one of AM's weaknesses?
Anyway, that's enough food for thought from me, I look forward to reading your responses later...
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Monday, 19 May 2003 10:57)
Damn.i may have to start watching tv again,that ultimate force series sounded good (apart from ross kemp being in it)
>>By scouse (Monday, 19 May 2003 11:43)
What you saying Hoarwithy, I got a dot the i and cross all the t ;)
Man or woman, You know if this is true?
I havent seen the SAS memorial at Credenhill so dont know if what I was told is true or false.
But who are ye, in rags and rotten shoes,
You dirty-bearded, blocking up the way?
We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further; it may be
Beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow
Across that angry or that glimmering sea.
Does any one know Fairford live near it? Any pretty women out there in Gloucestershire let me know.
>>By wingman (Monday, 19 May 2003 12:41)
Posted before reading. Yeah read all Ryan stuff I think. Good bloke by all accounts. It was one of his mates gave me a book and I got more in the local bookstore. Read Bravo Two Zero and Immediate Action and can't work out why no one has figured why two men wrote different stories when they were in the same fire. Reckon one aint telling the truth and I got my bucks on McNab being the better liar of the two. Joking men is usually good liars. Good books tho.
>>By wingman (Monday, 19 May 2003 12:51)
Hi Wingman
You're spot on with that 'ditty'
It is inscribed on the clock of the memorial at Credenhill.
Scouse, there's a funny little story that goes with the Ultimate Force/Ross Kemp/Chris Ryan thing.
Kemp wanted to portray his character (SAS Sgt.) as accurately as possible. Ryan said he'd take him camping up on the Brecon Beacons for a couple of days. He said he'd show him the various routes they use for selection. Kemp bragged he had put in some extra training and felt he could keep up with Ryan and A Another. They had to stop after a few hours because Kemp was f***d. He was woken by Ryan at 5 am, Ryan wafting a brew under his nose. "Fancy a brew?" asked Ryan, "Yeah, I'd love one" said Kemp. "Tough" said Ryan as he threw the tea away. "You're late getting up and if you're not ready in 5 mins you'll have to catch up with us"
Kemp then noticed that Ryan and his pal had their bergens packed and were preparing to set off.
Kemp is convinced to this day that if he didn't get his arse into gear, Ryan really would have left him...
I suppose when you're used to an actors lifestyle, you don't expect people to treat you like that...
It gave me a giggle anyway
WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD KEMP!
Seriously though, if it comes out on DVD or they repeat it, I'd reccomend it. Kemp is normally a bit of a tosser, but I have to admit he carries the role quite well (no hidden digs at regiment Sgts. there - honest!!)
Has it been shown in the US/Oz/Holland??
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Monday, 19 May 2003 15:19)
Holland ,May 19
Oh Hoarwithy !!! It’s your own fault you didn’t find me here anymore. It was ME who was knocking on your door and you didn’t let me in! With the image us woman seem to have on this board I good do nothing but sulk for three days.
About CR, I’ve read almost all, not his last Dutch-published one yet and now there’s another one out in the UK?
To read CR I would prefer to read the Geordie Sharp books (3 or 4? I’m not at home writing so can’t check now) in the right order, just like Nick Stone is preferably read in order of publication. The books with another character can be read in random order as far as I’m concerned.
I absolutely prefer Andy McNab (I’m here, aren’t I ) over Chris Ryan, fictional or non-fictional. I think CR has a bit more macho style and I miss Andy’s brilliant humor in CR’s books.
Geordie Sharp is a struggling person too, like Nick Stone but where I think Geordie is feeling sorry for himself Nick is more cynical in a humorous way. But this is only how I see it.
About off board talking, it has great value to me and it’s great to get more insight in the person behind the nickname, which on board talk is not the right place.
Also it’s strictly optional – if you don’t like it you don’t have too so I don’t see what’s the point arguing. Am-I-Binned shows you the way, skip if you’re not interested. Wingman, you wanting to post your own mailbox: some have had bad experiences with that. To avoid getting mails you don’t want it’s not a bad idea to use email4gnod.
Wingman, you say “ why no one has figured why two men wrote different stories when they were in the same fire”.
We did talk about that but I can’t recall it being on this board or on Allreaders (discussion is no longer to see over there). Basically we said that whenever more than one people live through the same experience they will all have their own stories.
Apart from that Andy and Chris were not together the whole mission. Third they both choose to ‘color’ their stories with what’s on their personal agenda, Andy had a different approach writing about the other members than Chris.
And I’m sure I left out a fourth and a fifth but what I am saying that it would have been very strange if both stories were exactly the same. Some people claim to know the whole truth. I’m not one of them.
I don’t think the tv-series you’re talking about was on Dutch tv yet, haven’t seen it.
LynnHolland
>>By Lynn (Monday, 19 May 2003 15:46)
Sorry about the typos (like good = could) but I'm suppose to be working so I was a bit in a hurry.
Till soon (that's how hard I'm working)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 19 May 2003 16:06)
Re: Ultimate Force/Kemp
Not here in the US, Hoarwithy, but remember this is the US -- so, hey, wait a minute, are you telling me there is actually a world beyond the US? (so globally-oblivious it's pathetic....)
Unfortunately there are a lot of programs I've heard/found out about, but even if available on video or DVD, I still can see them because they are only in PAL format.... major bummer!
Good grief, though, I would love to see CR waking up the fella RK the way you described -- musta been a total hoot!!! No downloadable trailers/snippets available on the internet, are there?
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 19 May 2003 18:27)
Talking of one-liners, I can't remember it exactly (and can't be bothered to go upstairs and get the book!) I think the description of 'not enough explosive on the tree so we put some more on' followed by the tree launching into the sky in Immediate Action was an absolute classic. I was on holiday at the time and remember bursting into a laugh in front of a bunch of serious looking Germans!
That's it, I've gotta get the book out and read again!
>>By Sheba (Monday, 19 May 2003 22:10)
Hey all
A non-event: no AM novel in the top 100 of Britain's best-loved fiction (BBC - the big read). WHY?
Seriously why do people read 'the alchemist' or 'crime and punishment' whereas they could find the essence of life in NS stories? You know what I'm thinking of, things as important as; how to feed a little girl (only fat and coke - the secret of SAS figure, I suppose), how to seduce a woman with a gun and a tazer, how to pass a check point with a dead man at the rear of your car...
They don't know what they miss...
We need a strategy. Any idea?
>>By Alice (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 14:37)
Hi from an AM fan in Fiji. Is it true that AM was consultant on the Michael Mann flick 'Heat'' starring Robert De Niro and Al Pacino"?.
I noticed the correspondence on CR's recent foray into television. Maybe CR doesn't have to worry about being on a terrorist organisation's hitlist!!!
Anyway, maybe we could lobby AM to be consultant on a film about the life of David Stirling, the founder of the SAS. Has anyone read stories about him? A real maverick, lateral thinker... AM's expertise would be welcome..
>>By Valdez (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:52)
Hot item at the moment in Holland, dental care.
It's a shame only that I can no longer read the last posting while I'm typing my comment.
Hi Valdez. Yes Andy McNab was a consultant for Heat but at the moment he better be busy with Crisis Four since we are talking about that for so long. A movie about David Sterling... what a nice thought. If what I've read about him is right Andy McNab wouldn't be the only one dying to be consulting. I think he was/is the Regiment's real hero.
Any of the 'old' guys want to say something about him???
Hoar'y, if you bustour is also for visitors on this side of the site, wold you inform me of the nearest busstop?
I'll bring the orangecakes and some tulips for sniffing.
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:22)
Alice, you really got me grinning! You have to be the absolute Queen of Spin! Especially the take on seduction -- NS salesmanship or what! LOL!
And while on the subject of CF, I seem to have misplaced my CF answers Paul R's Mission Impossible. Scouse, did you take them? Why, yes, you did! But I see you skipped a few, too! I'll just have to redo the list and post later... grinning the whole time, of course!
Welcome, Valdez. Yep, AM was technical advisor on Heat, and I second Lynn in that AM better be busy moving things along with CF/Miramax. A film about David Stirling -- are we sure there hasn't been a movie made? 'Cuz now that you mention the idea, it seems like there should have been at least one movie about him -- a very logical hero for a film. If one were to be made today, tho.... hmmm.... now who could play DS? Brad Pitt? Smack! Ouch! Alright, alright, I know, sore point around here...
Lynn, Lynn, Lynn -- Those damn tulips again! You're gonna get me in trouble... you know what a sniff can do! But now those orangecakes! Brilliant! If we use Alice's spin and market as a new diet plan, great volumes of orangecakes and soda, we could make a fortune! We could buy loads of tulips! We'd be rolling in $, we'd be.... uh-oh, wait, I was already sniffing them tulips, wasn't I?
Well, I'm just gonna be over here, flipping through my copy of CF looking for those lines, in case anybody's looking for me. Now where's that one? Oh, yeah -- "It was dancing away like Michael Flatley on speed."
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 18:09)
Just returned from my local Maher's bookstore - SHOCK HORROR! They ran Andy McNab's name through their high-tech multi-networking system before telling me there's no planned release from him in 2003 :-O
Does this mean Dark Winter won't be released until 2004? I'll miss my usual Christmas through to New Year AM read - its become kind of a custom for me over the last few years!
Also, I remeber reading that AM sold the rights to Remote Control a couple of years back. Is this not being made before Crisis Four? It'll be a shame if the films are not in order as the books.
>>By Sheba (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 18:27)
Hi again, Sheba...
I'm hoping AM is right and Maher's system is wrong... AM said October this year for DW (pg 17).
As far as film rights, etc., I know we discussed all kinds of angles at length (mostly btwn pgs 2-7). Here are some links, too, but it's mostly old news now. Haven't found any info as of late... always looking tho....
Re: Crisis Four / Miramax / Nick Stone / "sold rights"
Miramax Films has acquired the film adaptation rights to Andy McNab's novel "Crisis Four," along with the rights to the novel's main character "Nick Stone," it was announced today by Miramax -- http://www.stickyfeet.com/news.php?id=28
McNab has sold the rights to all four of his novels including the bestseller Bravo Two Zero which, was previously adapted by the BBC. ... Miramax confirmed that it had bought the rights to all four books, including his next novel Last Light, out on 4 October. -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/1573878.stm
McNab's publishing house, Corgi, said it was "not simply another novel which had been bought by a film company for development. The deal has been done and it is currently in production, which means the process is several stages down the line," said a spokesman. McNab said the contract was being signed and the script in the process of being written. -- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/01/nbooks01.xml
Done Deal, The Archives by J. Roskin, July 2001
Title: Crisis Four
Log Line: British intelligence agent, Nick Stone, is black mailed into either finding, for free, a missing agent who's thought to have defected from the service to aid Muslim militants intent on blowing up the world, or going to prison and losing the 9-year-old girl whose dead parents, left him to care for. Nick finds the woman/agent and they team up to preempt a plan to kill Yasser Arafat and Benjamin Netanyahu.
Writer: David Magee
Agent: n/a
Buyer: Miramax Films
Price: Upwards of seven figures (McNab & publisher)
Genre: Action adventure
Logged: 7/18/01
More: Option. To be based on Andy McNab's novel of the same name. McNab is a British special operations officer who was highly decorated in the Gulf War. Bonnie Timmermann will produce. McNab will get co-producer credit. Miramax has also picked up character rights to Nick Stone, and the rights over time to develop the other Nick Stone novels, "Remote Control," "Firewall," and yet unpublished book.
http://www.scriptsales.com/ArchivesJuly01.html
CNN.com Entertainment, July 18, 2001
Miramax eyes McNab novels
Miramax has also picked up character rights to Nick Stone, and the rights over time to develop the other Nick Stone novels, "Remote Control," "Firewall," and an as yet unpublished fourth book. David Magee will write the screenplay.
The deal comes as McNab is poised for a publishing breakout. A major bestseller in the U.K. and in translation, he hasn't developed a sizable following in the United States. But McNab was recently in New York meeting with agents and may be close to signing with Janklow & Nesbit principal Mort Janklow for American representation.
Aaaah, that last paragraph -- that's why I recog'd the posting from Georgia... you still with us, Georgia?
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 18:59)
hello folks
the ross kemp debate
i work in the location filming takes place, old usaf base hpper heyford .
and as a sas sargent, the big girls blouse could not move due to all those layers of clothes he was wearing then, and that was oxfordshire god knows what he was like on the beacons. talking after rain sensortive cattle grid. and it was only three takes to get out of heyford in his landi
lib day going well looks like its going to be a big finish, but not many chapters left
as for the andy mcnab /miramax connection cant see any of those pretty yanks playing the staring role . needs good soild english chap (got few days off next month ) no not really the man for it , i like my ops warm and dry no mud,
any body got any good sugesstions as to who could play the role. ross kemp ,
need not apply
>>By jaffagib5rgjt (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 20:46)
RE: Who'll play Nick Stone - Well Sean Bean didn't do a bad job in B20 as McNab himself (short, thin, grey - persona, not hair! etc.)...shame he didn't drop that poxy Sheffield accent though...everyone knows McNab is a saaf London lad (sorry, accent joke maybe lost on non Brits ;-)...) and it was annoying to keep hearing Bean's northern accent. Pierce Brosan would fit the bill, but couldn't do it for obvious reasons - too many comparisons to Mr Bond himself.
My money is on Hollywood's latest heart throb, Colin O'Farrell, he'll have to adopt the saaf London talk though!
Any other thoughts?
>>By Sheba (Tuesday, 20 May 2003 21:43)
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