Andy Mcnab
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>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 01:51)
21 pages! Good work F Troop.
take care guys, speak soon
>>By Paul R (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 02:37)
I'd just like to add to two questions/comments made earlier.
Ultimate Warrior - Had it bought for me couple of years back. I'm a massive AM fan so would never say it's c**p, but to be honest it is a very very basic Special Forces training video. I found myself trying to see behing AM's darkened eyes and picture his entire face while he narrates from a small box in the corner of the screen! If you're wise to SAS, Delta Force et al. training techniques, then this'll probably leave you feeling unfulfilled. If you're still wondering how these ordinary men become supermen, then it's worth a buy.
Second point - Following a funeral at the regiment's cemetary recently, a mix of current and ex-members of the regiment went on the lash to celebrate the life of one of their comrades. A fight broke out and FOUR men were admitted to hospital - one with quite serious head injuries. The police were called but no charges were pressed as all involved refused to speak. I can reveal that the reason behind the brawl (excluding the fact they were all rat arsed), was over book deals and that one of the men was now part of a committee that prevented others getting their work published...another argument was that a percentage of these book deals should be put into a trust fund and be shared amongst the families of the dead...
I know the pub, I have the names of three of the men and I can confirm that the above story is 100% true.
I think you'll agree, quite interesting.....
am-i-binned - perhaps I should start a site for DF, not a bad idea. Try and get in before he becomes big and someone else jumps on the band wagon!! (for those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, it's a posting I put on earlier about www.dean-francis.co.uk he seems to have a similar writing style to AM and is currently trying to get published)
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:54)
Hoarwithy RD. I back you on your post funeral punch up.
To am-i-binned and the few who cannot see beyond rose tinted glasses, I give you the following INTERNAL MEMO from a Whitehall dove:
The fall of the Berlin wall and the end of the Cold War marked the beginning of a period in which Western allied intelligence services suddenly found themselvs all at sea with no purposeful structure. It was an event MI6 and the CIA comprehensively failed to predict, and destroyed much of the raison d'ˆtre of both MI6 and MI5, its domestic counterpart. All these organisations had been created and formed primarily in response to perceived and actual threats from the Soviet bloc. What use then for hundreds of Soviet specialists, who had built up a comprehensive expertise on every twist and turn in the Kremlin? And what of those who had spent years building files on subversives and fellow travellers? As the world changed and entered a much less certain future, no longer dominated by the two great power blocs, Britain's security services notably failed to discover a new role for themselves.
Despite moving into new territories, such as anti-proliferation and combating crime, whether it be money laundering or drug smuggling, the evidence is that these activities are seen within the security services as being rather distasteful, like a once well-to-do lady taking in washing. But the world has impinged. The old order of British Intelligence no longer exists, a newer more deadlier form has arisen from the ashes to sit on so-called secret committees. Secrecy can no longer be regarded as an absolute in an era of human rights and freedom of information. It is hardly, therefore, surprising that MI5, MI6 and their less well-known sister agencies have all come under increasing scrutiny in the last few years.
Those seeking reform in Whitehall have, until recently, trod a lonely path. The security community is now amply demonstrating its continuing grip on the levers of power. The British government has single-mindedly pursued former intelligence officials, journalists and their publications in what has become a vain attempt to stop information reaching the public domain. Millions of pounds passed palms in private security deals, to enable the security services and Special Branch to covertly hound and harass David Shayler, Richard Tomlinson, Annie Machon, 'Martin Ingrams', Liam Clarke, Nigel Wylde, Martin Bright, Tony Geraghty, Ed Moloney, Julie-Ann Davies and James Steen, and now Mike Coburn. All were and are subject to injunctions, police raids and threats of imprisonment.
It is commonly whispered in the corridors of Whitehall that Andy McNab was actively involved in the tracking down and harrassment of several of the aforementioned agents. McNab indeed acquired his present role of 'Vet' by way of handout to much-loved lap dog. It was a triumphant ministerial coup, for McNab's book Bravo Two Zero had escaped scrutiny before publication because no procedural vetting existed at that time. By stealth and by cash the 'published talking parrot' was successfully caged and the MoD achieved its goal. The publicity surrounding the release of prisoners after the Gulf War had prevented the MoD from denying McNab's SAS service record, as was implemented on previous occasions of inflamatory books entering the public domain. In the late eighties when several authors wrote accounts of their time served on undercover operations in Northern Ireland, military records mysteriously and conveniently disappeared and authors were publicly ridiculed as frauds, regardles of medal honours and extensive insider knowledge of operational territories.
It is clear that Britain's laws are out-of-date. Most democracies around the world have adopted internationally accepted standards of freedom of expression and freedom of access to information. In Britain the level of public accountability of the security services is zero. The "Parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee" is accountable only to the Prime Minister.
As for the Richard Tomlinson's and Mike Coburn's, whom it was suggested 'may' reveal state military secrets, it was never said they definitely would have. There are several points to make in response. First, MI6 had years to conduct the most thorough security audit on everything once connected with Tomlinson's work, though it would have required an investigator of high intellect not an ex army sgt of low scholastic intellect. Second, the real objection by MI6 to Tomlinson's book is not about secrets he may have accidentally leaked. His account of his time since leaving MI6 inclusive unwarrented harrassment was infinitely more damaging to the service than any possible secrets the book might have revealed to a hostile intelligence service. While it might have been interesting to read about the latest gizmo developed by Q's real-life equivalent, or derring-do in distant lands, far more would have been gleaned about the internal state of affairs within MI6, by the fact that for five years it was unable to settle what was effectively a personnel issue. Its vindictive pursuit of a former high-flyer throughout the courts of the world - at a cost of millions of pounds to the taxpayer - reveals an organisation which still has not got its priorities right.
Significantly, his book "The Big Breach" reveals that MI6 regularly sends its officers into the field under journalistic cover, a practice which is banned in many countries, including the United States. No modern democracy can allow a secret organisation to spend hundreds of millions of pounds every year to exist free from oversight and oblivious to its responsibilities to the public purse. It cannot be right for MI6 and the MoD to continue campaigns against the Richard Tomlinson's and Mike Coburn's of this world, who are about as unlikely to reveal state or military secrets as McNab would down his trousers and utilise cling-film to catch his own shit in the middle of Oxford street.
>>By Chiefbear (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 11:20)
Hi there, Hoarwithy,
There are strange goings on with serving and ex SAS personnel, don't you think? Too many mysterious suicides and freak accidents? Of those who have had books published few are left standing and now the men chanting for the freedom of rights to publish books are as though smited by unseen hands. Who is to be next for the chopping board?
In point, Keith Phillip Johnson, aged 49, was discovered hanged at his home. There he hung for two days after he'd attended the funeral of his friend, SAS hero and author Charles `Nish' Bruce.
It seems scraps (scuffles/brawls) erupt quite often at SAS wakes these days!!!
Johnson had no record of depression neither was there any knowledge of his having suffered mental problems, and he left no suicide note.
The inquest heard a pathology report had found no trace of drugs in Johnson's bloodstream. He had a blood alcohol level of 162 mgs per 100 ml of blood - about twice the legal driving limit and clearly died of asphyxiation.
Coincidentally the inquest in to Princess Diana's death recorded a similar pathology report on Mohammed Al Fayed's driver.
Needle pricks can go undetectable if you're not looking for them...
>>By buddy (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 12:40)
Hoarwithy R D
Fist fights are such a common thing at wakes/burials with soldiers, usually because it's a massive "realisation" time for the boys. You realise that you are in fact human, plus you've lost someone who probably meant more to you than you'd care to recognise in public. let alone in a SF world where there's a competitive battle waging between us all.
not a new thing at all.
take care, speak soon. Welcome aboard new guys. And Scouse, you should be a Digger.
>>By Paul R (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 13:13)
Breaking News flash.
Ex soldiers in bar brawl.
Today in hereford,four soldiers presmued to be ex serving sas men,were seen fighting in a bar in the town,after a funeral of one of their ex comrades.sources say that one of the men was obviously andy mcnab,the author of B20.one onlooker said,it was disgusting,i mean four soldiers pissed and fighting,whats the world coming too.
Andy mcnab, who will not show his face,for fear of attacks by all the wife's he had,said,i don't know what the fuss is all about,one of the lads said i was a member of the republican guard,so i chinned him.
Two of the other soldiers refused to comment on the incident,Chris (i'm lost) ryan,and Stan (dr sex) man.the other soldier, mark the lemon,said the full account of what happend will be available in hardback in four years time,in a book entitled,i want the cash too.
re paul...what kind of digger??
>>By scouse (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:08)
McNab scared of his ex wives, pah. More like his mistresses and a few German brothel madams would mark his stick as whip worthy.
>>By Chiefbear (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:21)
Scouse, I'm beginning to suspect that your true mission is to keep us in stitches! Right, carry on!
Paul R! So glad you're back! You were sorely missed!
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:02)
McNab is poised for a publishing breakout. A major bestseller in the U.K. and in translation, he hasn't developed a sizable following Stateside. But McNab was recently in New York meeting with agents and may be close to signing with Janklow & Nesbit principal Mort Janklow for American representation.
>>By georgia (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 22:54)
Hello, georgia, and welcome.
I'll be delighted if Andy gets better promotion here in the US! It's virtually nill right now as far as I can tell. And emails to his US publishers go completely unanswered. Quick question on your info -- how recent is "recently"? Seems I remember this from late last year, but don't have time right this minute to research it further -- so I'm taking the lazy man's way and asking you please.... :o)
Fanx!
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 23:15)
Paul R/Scouse - allright, fair one - it sounded like I was saying brawls between squaddies are rare - believe me, I know it's not ;0)
The point I was making was that they were arguing over book deals etc. and that one of them seemed to have a larger opinion than anyone else on what is acceptable and what is not. There is nothing to suggest it was AM, however, it WAS apparently someone who now works on vetting new work before it is published - I doubt he's the only one. Anyway, you'll rarely - if ever - find AM in any of the old or (since the move) new regiment drinking haunts - wives or not! He prefers his ale further afield...
Trust me, there are several - and I mean SEVERAL - serving members of the regiment (plus 1 or 2 that have been RTU'd) who are desperately trying to exploit loopholes (and as we speak a couple do exist) to get their words in print. Unfortunately, if they're not as 'exciting' or "accurate".... as those that have gone before, the work'll probably be binned before an editor sets eyes on the MS.
ITS A DICTATORSHIP I TELL YOU - A DICTATORSHIP!!!
I can't be arsed to spell check, so no apologies for any mistakes.
I'm burying my hamster on Friday - who's for a beer and a fight - a rep from Random House will be there ;0) VBG
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Tuesday, 13 May 2003 23:49)
I'm not surprised he lives further afield,with all that dosh he's got.
Interesting point about actual serving men trying to get books out,i mean at least all the other's waited till they left the service.if what your saying is correct Hoar,then the regiment look's like its heading for anarchy,with men not caring about the job anymore, and more concerned with lining their pockets.and obviously there is a huge amount of publishers with open arms and cheque books,waiting for the next guy to come clean,especially to tell the story of the liberation of Iraq.
>>By scouse (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 00:06)
Hoarwithy R D,
Nice name, forgot to mention that before. Sweet as, I'll see you Friday night. I'm up for a b&b (beer & brawl) and a word with the rep. You'll have to do the swinging for me, I'm still recovering. Sorry to hear about your hamster, I'm sure he put a good fight.
This vetting board for new books is a good idea, & it's great to have an ex regiment boy on the board. But I don't think having an ex member who has written a book should be making decisions. Especially if he becomes judge & jury on the final decision. I'm not digging at AM in the slightest, just the set up of the board.
hanging for Friday night now. see you all there.
take care guys, speak soon
>>By Paul R (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 00:19)
and Scouse -a "Digger" is an Aussie Soldier.
>>By Paul R (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 00:21)
I don't think they've forgotten to care. They just know the 'end of their time' is commeth and are trying to set up a decent pension. Of course, none of them would admit that while they're still on the MOD payroll - and why should they? Being shafted by the government while offering a service - let's face it - not anyone could do, and then to be told, "sorry, too many ex-members are too rich already, why don't you go and train some nutcase in Kazachstein (spellcheck req)" is enough to piss anybody off.
Anyway - drawing a line and all that - this is supposed to be a site for AM. Not us 'experts' on the world ;0)
Thanks Paul R, apparently my hamster was ambushed by 200 cats and managed to take down 199 before the last one got him. The cat has sold a different story, claiming there wasn't 200 cats, and that a 2 day old kitten accidently stumbled across Freddie (my hamster) who then died of fright...VBG
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 11:38)
As I said off line, Paul R,
If I thought AM had intervened in my book I'd plonk him one on face to face then give him an ice pack and make him a cup of coffee!!!
As it stands this was my experience of Macmillan Publishers: The senior editor & editorial director requested full mss after reading sample chapters. Both loved the story but reluctantly declined to publish due to (here comes the hidden crux factor) unforseen circumstances!! No further official explanation, other than off the record the editorial director said: "It is a worrying time for publishers in respect of books to do with the SAS"
Damn it all, I wrote a romantic suspense not a full-on account history of the SAS....
If it was given the thumbsdown treatment by unseen committee, I guess it was due to the ex SAS hero turned Special K (love that health giving factor) and his actively sympathising with Palestinians, plus his mercenary training of Hamas fighters. It is after all, fiction.
My knowledge of the Palestinian/ Israeli conflict is based on my first husband's experiences during a period when he was secretly seconded to protection of King Hussein of Jordan (as was then) against threat of assassination from guess who? One day, off duty, he and a few others drove across the West Bank of Jordan on a recce and encountered a fracas between Israeli soldiers and youths throwing stones - the Isrealis were firing on the kids. And yes, my first husband did pick up an injured Palestinian kid and tell an Israeli soldier to go fuck himself...So what, and yes, he sympathised with the Palestinians because he could see Israel constantly expanding its borders and building more and more kibbutz on bulldozed Palestinian land...
I can feel immense sympathy for any SAS or ex SAS who wants to write a book (memoir)....I guess most are looking to gold in their pockets in the same AM did. It's all very well to say "I didn't nor did anyone else believe it would become a bestseller (B20) - that's utter tosh! Of course it would/did, because the novel came out as the book that shouldn't have been published!! Well that sold it to just about any curious person wanting to know why it shouldn't have been published.
But, let's just take a minute to remember those SAS men who were discarded by the reg not because they weren't good fighting men, but because they were suffering from PTSS/PTSD. Some are living in terrible poverty, unable to find work, unable to pick themselves up and live a normal life...It would go a long way if AM donated all or half the proceeds from one of his books/film rights to a trust fund for ex SAS men left in the gutters of city of steets...Not a trust fund that sits on the money, a trust fund that helps to find these men and get them off the streets and into decent clothes, not a place where they are subjected to electro shock treatment, as was Nish!!!
>>By buddy (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 11:42)
If you really want to find AM - or any other current serving members of the regiment - they are really very easy to recognise.
They're the guys walking around Hereford with a large black strip of cardboard across their eyes...
Sorry, an old & bad joke I know but hey, just trying to lighten the mood.... :0)
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 11:42)
Holland, May 14
If I say I’m really really tired now, can I come out of corner??
Haven’t been able to read all, but the Dean Francis book seems interesting.
There was also talk about CQB Mike Curtis. Read that a couple of years ago and indeed very informative about the Falklands. I had only read Andy’s books and Chris Ryan’s, nothing about the F’lands in there and I had to admit reading CQB I didn’t know how bad it had been over there. So I can recommend Mike Curtis’ book indeed (not just because of the Falklands)
Xcuses for the injokes, but they are (sometimes) fun to the person’s involved so if you’re not involved (but you might be and don’t even know about it – haha, jj )but want to know – please ask. Some answers may be vetted though.
Cpm, about remaining anonymous or not, I’ve asked that same question a couple of times before – why not Chris and the others, they must have the same enemies. We’ve come to the conclusion that Chris and the others are enjoying their fame too much and therefor take the risk. Anyone who thinks different – please let me know.
INTERNAL MEMO
Chiefbear, I can think of other things not smelling of roses.
Scouse, you were saying Buddy could always make a career of talking. Meet Buddy’s identical twin.
Alice, you like childish and direct: COOL !
Paul R. not chased away – guess we’re not as bad as it seemed. About fist fights. There has been talk in the books about that, fighting after returning from a job and after other (sad) events. Are there still some unwritten rules about those fights? Or is it really free-fight.
And (unlike girls) guys usually shake hands afterwards and have a pint, but do things never get out of hand? You know how to interpret me asking: answering is optional ;-)
Loopholes do exist – I would like to know more about that Hoarwithy RD
I can’t come to the funeral I’m afraid but if you feel the need to talk about the sad loss, please don’t hesitate, I’m always available for psychiatric counseling.
Paul R, I do like this one. It’s about getting some luggage:
“Id stick out like the balls of a bulldog if I boarded the aircraft with nothing like a can of Coke”
Take care,
non-baldilocks Lynn
PS I crossposted Hoarwithy - I'm glad I offered you counseling - your hamster story is even more shocking than I though ;-)
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 12:20)
Thanks Lynn, but I think I'll be OK. Freddie was a Staff Sergeant and I'm sure he will be beasting the other hamsters in the hamster-heaven as we speak...
Loopholes, ah. Well, unfortunately I cannot reveal anything just yet. No, this isn't a cop out, nor is it a load of BS, it's just that I'm - shall we say - 'involved' at the moment and I wouldn't want to compromise any future deals.
Shaking hands after a punch-up? As long as I'd filled the bloke in. If he'd got the better of me I'd still want to rip his face off - but that's a personal thing - it would also depend on who's round it was ;0)
New books, well I agree, the Dean Francis stuff looks pretty good. Apparently he's not published yet. Perhaps he's having trouble with 'BIG BROTHER' and will be another to have his work binned before it's published. I might have to let him know via his site that if his books contain anything 'controversial' he might not get a deal at all - worst still he might end up hanging from a lampost...
Back to AM. Someone said that his new book is called DW?? Anymore info?
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 19:05)
Thought I'd add my favourite one-liners. The P for plenty is my all time fave, but another classic was in Immediate Action during his youth.
"I soon realised that girls don't go for fat kids wearing luminous socks"
>>By Hoarwithy R D (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 19:34)
Excerpt from "Colour me Dead" by Andy McNab the sequel to "Dark Winter"
New York 11th January 2004.
Mornings have become a bad time for me. Here I am, lying in my bed, eyes closed, unwilling to surrender the peaceful darkness. Fighting the fact I have to get up and face another day. Especially this day, my birthday.
Forty-five.
Nick Stone is forty-five.
Jesus!
Zoom-doom shot Wap'd to god knows where by Ta 'ra, and tabloid editor hits orgasmic overload.
Bugger.
Yeah, I'm still lying here, age creeping past.
It's probably past noon, but the longer I delay getting up the better. I know that once I stir they'll be all over me.
Ta 'ra – my live-in girlfriend. Dag – my driver-cum-bodyguard. Christen – my personal assistant. Anyhow, Christen isn't expendable, excuse enough for having her around.
Shit! I'm not alone. I can hear subtle rustle of silk and faint aroma of White Diamond perfume. Tracy is a J. Lo fan. Period.
So . . . why am I with her?
Good question. The problem is there's too many questions in my life and not enough answers.
Ta 'ra is on the prowl. Pretty brunette. Was blonde once. Lethal body and vacant mind. All legs, no arse to speak of. Cheese-grater voice.
She's standing by the bed looking down at me. Willing me to wake up.
Too bad, sweetheart. Get lost. Not in the mood.
Wait . . .Wait . . .
She's gone. Thank God for that.
Roll out of bed and stroll – stumble – into steel and glass high-tech bathroom, where I immediately lock the door.
Ah . . .Nick Stone in the morning. Not the man he once was. Still handsome . . .ish. bloodshot eyes.
Fucking flash-bulb red!
Blink . . . Blink . . .
Handsomeness not perfect this morning. More brooding . . .mesmerising. Why?
Eyes bloody hypnotic and watchful. Hate me, hate you.
Blink . . .
Old.
Older than I ever thought I'd be.
Grin.
But the world still loves me. My fans will continue to worship because I belong to them. I am Nick Stone.
Grin.
My fans have elevated me to a rare and crazy place where nobody can expect to remain sane.
Manic grin.
It's all too much. Splash your idiot face with cold water, will you.
The adulation, the never-ending attention. Crushing . . .stifling . . . suffocating . . . Too fucking much.
Smile, don't grin.
Welcome to the insane asylum.
Welcome to my life.
Reach for the wall-phone. Buzz the underground garage. Dag lurks. "Ferrari, Dag, Ferarri . . .No . . .Change of plan. Get out the black Porsche."
"Right, Nick . . . Oh, an' happy birthday, man."
Screw this birthday crap. I'm not going to hear anything else today, am I?
Finish bathroom. Dress. Low key leather jacket, jeans, black loafers. All I have to do is make it from the apartment before I'm forced to endure more congratulations.
Sick bastards.
Hit the hallway. Ta 'ra all pearly teeth, pink angora sweater, short skirt swishing sexily around thighs.
What is wrong with me?
No buzz!
"Gotta go."
"Where?" Ta 'ra asks, thrusting fluffy angora bird-nest tits for a birdy.
"Yeah, where ya goin', man?" added Dag, car-keys jangling.
"I'll be back soon."
"Sure, hon," says Christen, a knowing glow.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Cleverly timed words to coincide with arrival of elevator. Fuck it. I own the lot of 'em.
Before they could nail me I'm out of there, downstairs, in the Porsche, driving out of Manhattan as fast as I can.
Forty-five minutes, and there she is. Standing all alone. Solitary and serene. My dream woman.
Sink into her cockpit and fly.
Sigh . . . Long Sigh . . .
When did it all begin to get out of control?
Cleared to taxi.
Nick Stone can fly.
Clear for takeoff.
A plan is about to be put into action.
Free at last.
Colour me dead, McNab.
I'm up, up, and out of here.
>>By AM (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 20:52)
Hoarwithy R.D.
Publish on the Internet!!!! I have...It's working...
Can't advertise where, it's against the law around here.
So, I'll paste on blackboard instead
www.online-e-bookstore.com.
Paul R: That problem I had is resolved after irrational phone call!!!
>>By buddy (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 20:58)
Lynn: I hope you don't think I am one of the Andy Smith's of this world!?
Ha Ha...not a chance...
>>By buddy (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:22)
Ah, Buddy.
It would more be like me thinking you are on of the
Agatha Mackenzie's of this world..
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:28)
Gsus, I thought Dark Winter would be a long wait….. CMD … another year !!???
Maybe AM should make an exception for his fans who have elevated him to a rare and crazy place where nobody can expect to remain sane......
And send us a pre-copy of the book on our offboard addresses…
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 22:21)
Buddy- happy days. well done!
keep these one liners coming, they still crack me up. Hoarwithy, "P for plenty" is one of my all time favs too.
"There are no problems in this world that cannot be solved, with the proper application of high powered explosives." -an old demolitions saying. Not AM, but I still love it.
Lynn, about this fist fights. They can sometimes get out of control, but not too often. There are still no rules as such, but you tend to feel better after you've splattered their nose with a king hit. Then the tension is gone & you can go back to more pressing issues, such as finishing your drink. We wouldn't want to waste precious QDT (Quality Drinking Time).
take care, see you all tomorrow for the b&b for Freddie.
>>By Paul R (Wednesday, 14 May 2003 23:42)
For Freddie
Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am sunlight on ripened grains;
I am the gentle autumn's rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft star that shines at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry.
I am not there, I did not die.
>>By anon (Thursday, 15 May 2003 11:12)
Oh, that's beautiful anon,
I'm sure it will help Hoarwithy to get over this...
maybe it's all the counseling he needs
(which doesn't mean I won't be there for you H... )
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 15 May 2003 11:19)
"anon", I love it. (But why do you remain anonymous?)
Freddie is a lucky hamster.
>>By Alice (Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:02)
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