Andy Mcnab
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Beth I don't know how I came up with big head, was that mentioned somewhere? I meant big ego.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 10:33)
I tend to agree w/ Lynn about Asher who would spend part of his time in court room if he had revealed Mc Nab's real name.
On the other side, his book's aim is to reveal the truth, so everything's possible. Plus I don't imagine McNab sueing Asher about his real name as far as they know all the noise made by Ashes revelations. Would McNab dare putting these info into the light and getting compromised???
Anyway, there is always a way to know that so...
>>By Phil (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 10:58)
I'm a bit slow today.. Hi Stirling..
nice one on DW. Where did this come from?
I'd like to sing to you..
Tell me more, tell me more, like does she have a car aha aha
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 11:08)
Lynn
Oh yes still running, mind you it won't take him long to catch up since I'm half the size of him. So I'm going to say something nice, he has a lovely Geordie accent (will that delay my beating?).
I've only ever seen the TV programme Asher made, never read the book, but I did like the way Peter Ratcliffe had literally two lines, I would love to hear the rest of their conversation. Anyone got an unedited version?
>>By Beth (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 11:41)
No book, no program for me so I can't help you out here.
It won't matter if you're half his seize Beth, you just have
to run twice as fast.
You're right Phil about the name thing, court will attract even more attention. But I don't believe Andy would mention his
real name on a mission andyway so...
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 12:01)
Oh, MG I love this new feature, the message thing. I got
3 messages - I love it.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 12:02)
When one moves within the glitz and glamour of Hollywood moguls and tramps around on close-protection of infamous politicians and "kings and queens" of celebrity mania, then it is inevitable "the litigious" USA courtroom style of reach for a lawyer instead of "meet me outside" will impact upon the "impressionably minded".
Gee, a hint of the new Harry Potter book in a NY newspaper and the writs were enroute before the verbal threat was off the media airwaves: fantastic publicity!!!!!
That's why, although Chris Ryan has been slandered and libelled at every turn for his critical slant in TOTGA etc., I admire the way in which he shrugs off back-biting criticism like a man and says "come outside". He doesn't do the threat of law suits, which could imply instance of paranoia plus delusions of rabid amour-propre: so regnant of Hollywood mania. After all, he's still writing books that are bestsellers, which means he must have a lot of fans albeit less vocally supportive than seen here in respect of AM...And I have it on good authority, that " The Watchman" by CR. is f*****g fantastic. Can't wait to get my paws on it...
To be fair to AM, anti AM posts have appeared here on occasion, and I've been more than chided for tackling unpleasant aspects of reality as opposed to fictional/fantasy, but nothing in this world is perfect, least of all McNab, whom I feel for beyond his writing (unexplainable in a public forum). One has to take the rough with smooth in life and smile, regardless...Law suits and threats of court room justice tend toward negative publicity on the accuser as opposed to the defendent...
The general public has always tended to admire pirates/ highwaymen/ and latter day Robin Hood (self-made rich bastards) over that of rich people dripping with gold, but not if they change sides...
>>By buddy (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 12:45)
Lynn I'm alright running as long as it's on level ground, and for short periods of time, but I am a lot better at hiding in small spaces until the coast is clear.
I have read the watchman and I have to say it was really quite good, although I do prefer AM by a big margin (apart from Last Light, wasn't too keen on that one). Afraid of appearing really thick though, the ending confused me totally. Must have read it in a blonde moment.
>>By Beth (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 14:11)
buddy:
I recommend reading the latest edition of TOTGA with the new foreword-chapter by Ryan where he comments on the criticism from Vince Phillips relatives (after ITV's conversion of the book into film) ++.
I concurr on The Watchman. It has a great plot, and events take a surprising turn towards the end of the book.
AIB:
Got a phone from the bookstore. Ghost Force and CQB has arrived. Am I in for a treat? I'm also thinking about ordering a couple of SBS-books for variety.
By the way: the sergeant-major in A squadron who got shot, taken prisoner by the Iraqis and finally operated on by a British-scholared Iraqi doctor (as described in EOTS).... Ratcliffe identifyes this guy as "Barry." Provided Ratcliffe hasn't applied an alias, do you know if this is Barry Davies we're talking about?
>>By ortlieb (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 14:19)
Aaah, Ortlieb, the Name Game -- in some of its variations....
I'm afraid I'm four years behind you in reading and research, having only been introduced to AM and all-thing-SAS last July. I'm still cross-referencing some of the "who's who" nicknames btwn AM (B20 and IA), Frank Collins (Baptism of Fire), and Tom Read/Charles Bruce (Freefall), along with Frances Nicholson (AM's ex- Married to the SAS) and Jenny Simpson (Biting the Bullet) who both used made up nics, also. So it might be quite a while yet before I can hope to id the various other aka's used by Connors, Spence, and Ratcliffe. I'm hoping that maybe Pe Gasus might be willing to help cross-ref some of these aka's and save me some intensive homework...(would you please, PG?)....
As to AM's real name, I'm still awaiting arrival of TRB20, so I can read exactly what Asher says about his knowing AM's name. While I personally cannot prove beyond refute that AM's first name is not Stephen, I think logic and other things (like the silk map) dictate that it is not. In fact, there's a little voice in the back of my mind saying that Asher, like the other authors we're talking about right now, has actually substituted a different name for AM's real name -- and that Asher's point in telling that the cab driver knew AM's real name is more a case of: "He told me AM's name was XYZ and I know AM's real name is XYZ, so I know this cab driver is telling me the truth." Then, when it came time to document this testimony in his book, Asher picked a "safe" name ("Stephen") to subsitute for XYZ.
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 15:49)
Ortlieb: BD, last heard of in Afghani prison cell...British Gov denying responsibility for his being there...I haven't checked up on what has happened since that report...Anyone else know?
Am-I-binned: Cool, the XYZ - Oh, so correct!!!
The more you read and search for links the more snakes you'll tumble across, the truth several ladders distant yet blatantly obvious within AM's writing...
Given that everyone has someone or has met someone they'd like to bury fathoms deep with an anchor around their necks, don't you think it likely (I know I might) - when in a sticky situation - utilise the name of a worst enemy (right gender of course, though most names have a flipside.)
>>By buddy (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 16:19)
Buddy,
I have to agree with you on CR's approach to "dealing" with problem makers. There's nothing more satisfying than sorting it all out outside.......very therapeutic (serious spelling issues). I know CR wanted to catch up with Asher and sort out a few things, but he lives in a no-deal country, bit of a bugger in my view. I'd love to pull up a chair and a cool beverage and watch Ryan "talk things over" with Asher.
"Hi, my name is XYZ and I'll be your car-hijacker today. As always fear sickness bags are located in the seat-backs and your closest exits are located here, here and here...."
take care guys, speak soon
>>By Paul R (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 16:57)
Sorry Paul, but I would have liked to see Asher "talking things over" Ryan!! lool
Unfortunately that would not solve their "problem"!
I find rather childish to fight about knowing if the members of B20 have embellished or not their stories, 3 of them didn't come back and THAT sounds to me much more important than knowing who will win the contest "my muscles are bigger than yours"! In the end it is the families of the dead (and the Regiment) who suffer from all that.
>>By Phil (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 19:08)
Hello
The obession continues i bought 3 books yesturday and i shouldn't have i have way too many it has to stop!!!!!! LOL
>>By christina (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 19:24)
Phil,
It's not so much a question of if the boys embellished or coloured their stories (they're humans after all), it's the fact that Asher publicly hammered the boys in his book instead of dealing with any issues face to face.
And yes the fighting is childish I suppose, but it's great to be a kid again sometimes.
take care, speak soon
>>By Paul R (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 19:49)
Ortlieb; Barry Davies left the SAS in the early seventies(i think), so i doubt it was him in Ratcliffes acount. Davies has since written plenty of SAS related books, and also a new novel, related to the death of 'Princess Diana' and 'Dodi Al Fayed'; by all acounts the book is fantastic, and if your a conspiracy theorist, it certainly rings true.
>>By stirling (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 21:02)
Lynn. The synopsis came from 'Amazon.co.uk'..sounds good, can't wait for it to come out.
With regards to The 'Grease' impression; if your anything like 'Olivia Newton John' in Grease; can i have your number??
>>By stirling (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 21:06)
hi lynn
i only just noticed the post with your singing! LOL are you ok dear would you like some help?!?
>>By christina (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 21:33)
Barry Davies did not serve in Gulf War I, so it cannot be him I'm afraid.
As mentioned, he has been writing for years on SAS techniques/training etc and acted as a consultant on a BBC series called 'SAS - Are you tough enough?'
Basically it put members of the public through SAS selection (albeit easier than the real thing) to see how they coped.
AM's real name? Do we care? As long as he keeps writing good books!
Great site by the way - keep it up!
>>By i'm here (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:16)
Andy Mcnab's, real name, will be revealed on my next post....
>>By AM (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:29)
Oh absolutely (last time, promise!) Stirling, I live at number 24.
Ortlieb, I saw a 'lost' question on page 52:
Yes, Remote Control is his first (and my favorite)
Next:
Crisis Four
Firewall
Last Light
Liberation Day
Dark Winter (nov. 2003)
And I'd prefer to read them in that exact order.
take care,
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:31)
Barry Davies left the Regiment in 1972 if my memory's good.
I agree w/ you Paul, but it's not a question about "hammering" in a book instead of speaking face to face, it would have changed nothing I guess (except some broken teeth or ribbs). Andy, Chris and Johnny don't even have the same viewpoint of what happened and they were together when it happened!!!! Now I understand they have a grudge against someone who didn't take part in these events , who contests what happened and , above all, who belongs to the 23 SAS!!! That may explain some reactions. But I feel like it is difficult for people to hear that the story you told is fake when the "experience" you lived was torture and deshumanization!!!! I agree with that.
Moreover everything linked to the Regiment is "sacred", if you add the fact ex SAS members told their stories when the MoD is against, and that someone comes and contests what they told, I fully understand all the mess it causes!!!!!
>>By Phil (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:37)
Hi I'm here and AM,
I'm here too and AM's around, if not himself than in many many
words..
Thanx for the compliment on the site - you bet we keep it
up, try keeping us away! (only if you are tough enough)
No, his name doesn't matter, so give us something else
to talk about.... please.
:o)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:38)
Does anyone knows if B20 is available in DVD, I "only" have the VHS version. Thanxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>By Phil (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:38)
Yes, it is Phil, with Andy McNab interview and all....
look on the net, you'll find it..
I can't get it in a store in Holland, so it's on my list to order.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:45)
His name is 'Gandolph - Dalglish - Ramsbottom'
>>By AM (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 22:50)
In consideration of deliberate post re Barry Davies in Afghani prison cell, and in second consideration of so many purporting to be in the know on all things SAS here, (new posters) not one of you picked up on the fact that my post should have read:
Colin Berry held in Afghanistan on murder charge, while US forces (CIA?) deny any involvement in setting him up as a fall guy...
>>By buddy (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 23:23)
Paul R:
Hey mate, I'm sticking with you on the not growing up bit. AM hasn't and never will, hence so many women (his addiction to thrill seeking/impulsive nature/masochism) and always chasing a dream that not even money can buy...
You caught your dream = emotional security at home!!!
>>By buddy (Monday, 7 Jul 2003 23:33)
Thanks for the info on Barry Davies. He also participated as one of the instructors in a "becoming a spy"-series on the Discovery channel (don't remember the excact title) a few months ago.
Phil:
Although one might dislike Asher's book (I merely see it as one information source amongst many others, but not necessarily 100% accurate in all aspects), he makes an interesting foot-note regarding the torture etc that the four B20-members were subjected to: had they been taken by the PIRA in some desolate area in Northern Ireland, they wouldn't be alive to tell the tale. On the other hand Asher tries to paint a picture of the Iraqi's offering tea and bisquits to the British lads caught behind enemy lines before gently escorting them to a POW-camp. I'd say Asher's a bit bias considering his affection for the native bedouins and their culture. Still, it's interesting to know that the the guy compromising B20 (according to Ashers research, it wasn't the infamous goatheard boy who compromised the patrol, but his father Abbas) was a veteran from the 8-year Iran-Iraq war. Following the B20-patrol out of the wadi-system, Abbas, along with his brother and father, apparantly had more fighting experience than the whole patrol put together.
And what about the bodycount of 250 Iraqi's McNab claims the patrol managed to dispose of during their mission? Ratcliffe shares Asher's scepticism, although he supports his conclusions on general military theory (as in, as a rule of thumb you'd need a battalion for every successful win over 100 enemy soldiers).
I don't mean to come across as the anti Andy McNab guy here, but personally the reading experience (and the potential awe that would come with it) leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The same goes for Ryans TOTGA.
Still, I fully enjoyed Immediate Action, and I intend to embark on Remote Control when I've finsihed Ghost Force and CQB.
>>By ortlieb (Tuesday, 8 Jul 2003 08:28)
Re: His name is 'Gandolph - Dalglish - Ramsbottom'
Nah, you watched too many of "Blackadder" AM !
Ortlieb, I'm not fully awake yet (not enough sleep after practising the Grease-cigarette-scene all night) but the 250 deads...
I know there has been said something about that number - I believe it was something about Andy not being the one to come up with that number. Andyone who remembers.. help us out !?
But what does this number matter anyway? Would it be less
terrible (as any casualty is - no matter how inevitable/neccessary in a war situation) if he said it were 125?
Or 50? It's just a number as far as I'm concerned to say " it were a lot - unfortunately - but there wasn't any other way at the time"
Same with the torture - even if he would have exaggerated
99% of it, that 1% left must have been terrible. Not so much the physical pain but so much more the fact of being captured by the enemie, who's not very likely holding themselves to the Geneva convention. Andy himself said the worse thing was not knowing what was gonna happen to him, what had happenend to the others. How can you exaggerate how you feel?? It very personal !!!
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 8 Jul 2003 09:18)
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