Andy Mcnab
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>>By Droped In (Sunday, 16 Mar 2003 23:40)
>Re: Andy McNab will be using initials very >close to his own name If we could believe >the Nick Stone novels the name Andy should >be correct too.. just a slightly different >surname (I came up with this without >knowing anything of chess. So let me know >if I should take lessons or can do without >them)
If anyone has not picked this up already. In Micheal Asher's book he wrote: "Adnan let drop that 'the leaders name was Steven'. ... how, unless he had actually established some kind of rapport with McNab, could he possibly have known his real name?"
Obviously from this Asher knew "McNab's" real name and confirms that Steven was his first name.
TJ
>>By TJ (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 05:51)
M, 17/3/03 (2:00am) US
Welcome, TJ!
Wow, two new posters in two days! Have you been lurking long, TJ, or are you just arrived?
I take it then that you've read Asher's book -- what did you think of it? I haven't read it yet (very mixed feelings about reading his book) so I'll take your word on Asher's quote of Adnan, but is it possible there's a slightly different interpretation? Could Steven be a last name? Or, then again, is Adnan talking about Steve (Legs) Lane (maybe mistaken as to true leader)? Who is Adnan? Would you mind elaborating a little more on what all Asher says in the the passage that you're referencing? Oooops, is this turning into an interrogation?!? -- sorry! -- seems I just lapsed into "inquiring mind mode"....
Note: Many interesting things can be found/learned if you look very, very closely at the silk map.
Again, welcome! Looking forward to more e-chattering.....
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 08:03)
Sweden 17/03/03
Hello
M Asher writes that McNabs´real name is Steven but is it true?
I don´t think I would tell my name (real or not) if I were hijacking a car.
>>By Swedish reader (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 08:20)
Publishers are eager for SAS tales of an Iraq war...
Someone posted this article here. Please do not copy and paste third party articles into this forum. Thank you.
>>By mg (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 11:39)
Peter Ratcliffe as good as said the "braggarts and wasters, most of whom had written books" were the ones selected for the B20 mission.
They were never meant to survive. They were trouble in the service and likely to be trouble out of it. They proved him right. (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 11:46)
M, 17/3/03 (6:10am) US
Morning, All!
Excellent posts! May I ask who posted the article from Sunday's Observer?
Thanks!
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 12:12)
Computer hooked up again, I'm ready for WAR...Actually, I'm aching from head to toe from back-breaking work of papering walls, painting ceilings, and scrabbling around on knees laying new carpets...Sheesh, I need a drink!!!
Welcome to the new guys/gals on the block.
On the subject of Asher and his book: the man determined to sleight Andy McNab and his B20 group as liars...
a) Andy McNab admits he was a street-wise kid in every sense of the word survival in the smoke - kids lie through their teeth to get out of sticky situations...
b) Andy McNab set his sights at the army, and the SAS soon became the ultimate challenge. Hence, true grit and determination finally got him through the gruelling selection process...
(Anyone looking to hell for second run learns every trick in how to outwit the SAS instructors: read Frank Collins and the VAN bit, a not uncommon escapade, also bear in mind AM had endearing qualities of boy soldier naivety = taking things at face value... Plus on past experience his bergen of life is full of undying belief in the fact that he was very much alone in all things and that anyone who helps him out is likely out to shaft him good. Belief like that may wane, but never die...)
c) Asher went to Iraq for the truth behind Bravo Two Zero!!!!!(?)
(In my estimation that's like asking a *village fool* if he knows where the *village fool* lives: the fool never quite as daft as the person asking the question...)
d) Only good liars make it into 14th Intelligence et al, and AM has a good track record of lies under fire: he and others survived horrendous torture inside an Iraqi prison.
(Who wouldn't naturally lie about and, embellish certain aspects of B20 (?), especially to the press media - who incidentally thrive on lies same as the people who purchase the tabloid rags...)
Any one who has served or lived with the SAS/SIS/MI5/MI6 know that lies can save lives in the shadowlands of grey men and women!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to have to miss the real B20 story tonight = no cable, no sat link, but then, I'm trying to give up on television per se...All those dreadful chat shows, nerdish jerks on late night TV, and awful soaps are enough to drive anyone to drink... Give me Radio 4 any day = brain food...
>>By buddy (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 19:59)
There will be a live web chat with Andy Mcnab tonight 11pm UK time on History channel website.
Sorry for short notice but only just heard it myself.
>>By Johno (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 22:14)
Forgot to mention web adress
www.thehistorychannel.co.uk
>>By Johno (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 22:23)
Holland, March 17th
Re: Am-I-Binned: I thought I'd fill the gap with a little grin
LOL.
Re: Johno History Channel
Great of you to tell us Johno! Unfortunately I can’t receive this channel but I’ll be informed about the content.. Thanks
Re: TJ 'the leaders name was Steven'
I have to agree that we need to know more about this before we believe the name Steven.. so tell us more TJ !
Re: Swedish R.: I don´t think I would tell my name (real or not) if I were hijacking a car.
Good point!
Re: Someone posted this article here.
Don’t know who put the article here but it was a good article.
Re: Peter RATcliffe as good as said….
His book didn’t sell so well, did it??
Swedish Reader pointed out an article on Mirror.co.uk, read it. Thanks Swedish Reader!!
Searching for Andy McNab on mirror… I found some other nice articles. If you like check them out. They’re very recent about a new Gulf War. Mostly expressing his concern about equipment (the right boots, a rifle that work…) and preparation (testing communication etc.).
Quote: “our soldiers don't have the best fighting equipment available, and in some cases, they don't have the right equipment at all.
Whatever the reason, whether it is cost-cutting, bad planning, or just plain incompetence, it simply isn't good enough and the people responsible should be sacked.”
Also nice article about Andy being paid (£100,000) for constant mentioning the Traser watch.
Now this doesn’t surprise me!! What would Timberland have paid??
(well, good for him!!)
And he blames government for ‘lack of forethought’ (again!) in what are the right inoculations to give the troops. (First Gulf War they were or ordered to take Naps tablets: pills were what many people now think caused Gulf War Syndrome)
Re: All those dreadful chat shows, nerdish jerks on late night TV, and awful soaps are enough to drive anyone to drink
Have one on me tonight Buddy, can’t see it either. Must be why I’m here..
Thanks again Johno !!!!!!!!!
Take care lot!!
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 23:14)
ALERT
(Per Johno)
It has just been announced that when the program ends at 11pm tonight ( UK time) there will be a live web chat with Andy McNab...... History channel website.
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 23:15)
ALERT -- Follow up -- ALERT
http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/_mainsite_flash/index.php?subpage= chat_live&action=LoadContent
(to use hyperlink, make sure you remove blank space between "subpage=" and "chat_live")
Live Chats with Andy McNab and Chris Ryan
Andy McNab and Chris Ryan will both be answering your questions live on The History Channel Website over the coming week.
Andy McNab is up first - he'll be online on Monday the 17th March at 11pm talking about life in the SAS and surviving deep behind enemy lines. If you have a question that you'd like to ask, you can submit it in advance by visiting our 'Debate' section.
Then Chris Ryan will be with us live after next Sunday's repeat of Bravo Two Zero: Behind Iraqi Lines. Look out for more details and the chance to submit your question later in the week, or log in at 8pm on Sunday 23rd March to see the live chat in progress.
Thank you, Johno!!!!
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 17 Mar 2003 23:33)
>Re: TJ 'the leaders name was Steven'
>I have to agree that we need to know more about this >before we believe the name Steven.. so tell us more TJ !
It was plainly obvious from Asher's book that he knew AM's real name. This was probably from his interviews with the RSM Ratcliffe. All I can suggest is that you pick up a copy of Asher's book from a library if you're loathe to buy it. It was Asher's knowledge of the Bedu tribes, their customs and traditional ways, that gave credence to his book. Not to give anything away, but the Bedu (not the child shepherd ) who spotted them was Special Forces during the Iraq-Iran war.
From Asher's book "Under oath, Coburn and a fourth colleague Mal (Stan) , stated that both Ryan and McNab had distorted the facts in their books. During the same court case, the former Chief of UK SF's, who had been CO of 22 during the Gulf War, condemned AM's book as 'untruthful'. Asher also notes that RSM Ratcliffe stated that the videod debriefings did not tally with the written accounts by McNab and Ryan. Asher is a fluent Arabic speaker and suggests that the whole thing could have been a massive sting but goes into depth as to why he believes this was not the case. It certainly makes a very interesting read and a fitting tribute for what he was able to do for the family of Vince Phillips and the memory of Vince himself. Pick up a copy sometime.
Does anyone know where I can buy a copy on-line of
Mike Coburn, Soldier Five, ISBN: 0340750286?
It would be interesting to find out if Mike Coburn's account of the initial fire-fight tallies with the Bedu one.
>>By TJ (Tuesday, 18 Mar 2003 00:41)
Johno I love you !!!
I got a question answered... you made my day (my week - my month)
Thanks a million!
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 18 Mar 2003 01:16)
re Asher: I stand by my former posting of Fool in the Desert...
Speaking fluent Arabic is no guarantee of extracting/begging truth from Bedouin tribesmen.
a) Genuine Bedouin tribesmen are fiercely suspicious of strangers asking questions, and will play games of word chess to establish what it is that you want to hear: if it fits with their own ideals they will agree with you if it goes against they will shrug their shoulders and you are then left to interpret their unspoken veiwpoint. Hell, if you're caught drinking at a territorial waterhole without permission you might well be killed!!!
b) Anyone who knowingly reveals the identity of SAS/ex SAS personnel and certain personages from intelligence corp can be prosecuted for endangering their security and that of their individual families!!!
c) You're all barking up wrong trees on AM's real name...Ha ha...
d) Asher and Ratcliffe come from the same band of brothers!
e) Ratcliffee's book didn't sell well, Mark (Mike Coburn) Kiwi's won't sell too well either...B20 has been done to death, and the public are bored with it....
f) Andy McNab and Chris Ryan are personal marketing machines: they enjoy the limelight, albeit from different corners!!!
AM does the "I want to be alone" film star Diva bit, and Chris goes for full frontal!!!
So, whose winning in the favourite stakes? I'd say their running head-to-head....
>>By buddy (Tuesday, 18 Mar 2003 09:31)
Tu, 18/3/03 (9:25am) US
Morning All!
Need to say thank you again, Johno, for another terrific heads-up! Sorry I got so excited, tho, didn't realize you had posted and I went into massive ALERT mode! (spelled frenzy) to try to be sure everyone else knew too.
And we have our own in-house celebrity! LYNN asked, Andy answered and the world watched! Well, the part of the world that knew about the program anyway -- but that's enough for me! Did anyone else submit any questions, even if unanswered? Lynn and I both mentioned our little gang here at Gnooks/Gnod, so maybe if the man himself reads through the questions he didn't have time to answer..... (well, doesn't hurt to be optimistic, does it?)....
Here's Lynn's question (and moment in the limelight!):
Lynn:
Has your daughter seen / read B20 yet, if so how does she feel?
Andy McNab: Yes she has, she's read the book and has just seen the documentary, and she was upset about it, and we're probably going to have a talk tomorrow about it. She's got lots of questions, but she's 16 now, so she wanted to see it.
Buddy, must say I am totally in step with you on your recent posting comments, save one -- I do think Mike Coburn's book would sell, maybe not on the exact same grand scale, but I do think that for B20 followers (gee, do we know any such folk?) there is a definite interest in what Mike, and Mal, for that matter, might have to say. The ultimate would be to have all five members of the patrol able to tell their stories, including Dinger. However, since Dinger is still in the Regiment, he must have signed the Confidentiality Agreement in order to remain, so his story will probably never be told.
I don't have a real problem with discrepancies between versions, no two people ever witness exactly the same thing -- it's always, at the very least, a 3-way -- what #1 saw, what #2 saw, and what actually happened. Cripes, sports officials don't always agree on "instant replays" -- why would we expect the human eye and mind to do better? Even Asher's version may have things to tell so long as you bear in mind that human perceptions/recollections are always going to be flawed. The advantage of several versions is that you begin to get a clearer picture as you sift way the extremes. The common points become the true indicators and the variations can sometimes fill in important gaps. Such is even the case when you read other tangent accounts of B20's fiasco -- Cameron Spence, Ken Connors, and, yes, despite "attitude problems" Ratcliffe and de la Billiere.....
TJ -- In all fairness to you, I will look for "The Real Bravo Two Zero" -- problem here in the US is our libraries are not really as diversified as I would like, so many times it's hard to get a good selection of UK-oriented books. It's also a problem for me to pay for books (plus S&H from UK) when I'm not sure I'll find them a worthwhile investment. Care to lend me yours?
One other aside: We've tossed about the possibility of Andy having a ghostwriter -- well, must say, after reading his online chat replies -- if he does have a ghostwriter, the ghostwriter was replying to the online chat! Very, very much the same written voice as in his books. No, I do not think he has a ghostwriter at all. I did chuckle, however, at some of his very natural spoken grammar flowing into his written responses.... yes, definitely his spoken voice!
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 18 Mar 2003 15:34)
Tu, 18/3/03 (3:50pm) US
Swedish reader has advised that the transcript of the World Book Day Festival online chat with Andy is now available.
http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/andymcnab.html
The transcript of the Q&A chat from the UK History Channel is also available:
http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/_mainsite_flash/index.php?subpage= chat_live&action=LoadContent (click on DEBATE)
To use this hyperlink, make sure you remove blank space between 'subpage=' and 'chat_live' [where the line breaks]...)
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 18 Mar 2003 21:55)
>TJ -- In all fairness to you, I will look for "The Real Bravo >Two Zero" -- problem here in the US is our libraries are >not really as diversified as I would like, so many times it's >hard to get a good selection of UK-oriented books. It's >also a problem for me to pay for books (plus S&H from >UK) when I'm not sure I'll find them a worthwhile >investment. Care to lend me yours?
Sure, no probs. Contact me at tadvnt@aol.com with an address and I'll be glad to loan it to you.
TJ (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 02:15)
Tu, 18/3/03 (11:30pm) US
Thanks, TJ! Meet you offboard then....
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 05:45)
Holland, March 18th
Re: pick up a copy of Asher's book from a library
That’s not that simple here too but I’m working on it.
Re: Asher/Ratcliffe vs B20
Apart from (Am-I-Binned) “no two people ever witness exactly the same thing” there’s difference in interest. Main question in life WHY is one doing (saying) what he’s doing (saying).
In all books will be a mixture of story making-truth-money-heroism-damage control and whatever I left out. Like Am-I-Binned said, take the similarities, shake the rest, stir al little and take outcome with a pinch of salt. And every reader will have his own opinion.
Re: B20 has been done to death, and the public are bored with it...
I think at this moment with a possible second Gulf War it’s more lively than it’s been for ages.
And look at us…. 7 pages – going on 8- already!!
Re: who’s winning in the favourite stakes? I'd say they (AM/CR) is running head-to-head....
I know my winner.. and after he ‘talked’ to me he’s waaaaay ahead!
Re: Am-I-Binned: I went into massive ALERT mode
Oh please continue whenever necessary!!! Everyone, if you hear anything!!
Re: LYNN asked, Andy answered
I still think we all deserve some sort of ‘private’ chat since we’re all so dedicated!!!!!
The other chat was indeed more ‘real’ but I’m glad at least one of the many many questions I (and Am-I-Binned and others??) asked got through.
Re: if the man himself reads through the questions he didn't have time to answer..... (well, doesn't hurt to be optimistic, does it?)....
It doesn’t hurt no. If he ever does: Read the above !!!
Re: same written voice as in his books. No, I do not think he has a ghostwriter at all.
Agree with you Am-I- Binned.
Now for the chats: I do have a few things to say about that. I have some quotes, I hope this is ok with MG, they’re from the worldbookday chat.
First of all I wonder if Andy knows how optimistic he spoke of Transworld:
Q: is there any way that I can get some copies of your books signed?! (From ChaChi)
A: Andy McNab yes there is... that's writing to Trans World Publishers - the address is in the front of all the books. I'll gladly sign whatever needs to be signed and get it back to you
Now try writing to Transworld! Even a simple email will not be answered. But at least now we can say that Andy told us to write !!
He also said “there are still reserve liabilities which I must fulfil”
Can anyone with more army knowledge explain what that means??
There was a Q (from Tina) “Did you ever worry Bravo Two Zero wouldn’t get past the authorities?”
Answer from Andy: “No, not at all. They were the original ones who asked me to write it in the first place, so we all sat down with the manuscript….”
This one is new to me. Was he asked? A sort of debriefing?
Andy mentioned: “every time a book is published there's a slight worry (..)before I can see what people's responses are”
I have a suggestion: send us a copy before publishing…
Good news on the Crisis 4 front: “I've got involved in scriptwriting”
At least I think it’s good news. Let’s hope he’s able to avoid disappointment from his dedicated readers (and we know now if the movie does turns out to be a disappointment he’s partly to blame himself – not just Hollywood).
On the Nick item: “I am just going to see how Nick starts to develop. If he develops too much he'll be a tree-hugger by the end of 2007 so we can't have that!”
Oh come on Andy!!! You’re not hugging trees are you??? (if you are – I’ve got a lovely one in my garden). No seriously.. he can make and break Nick. I’m all for making!!
And here’s our answer to a question we asked (between ourselves) long time ago: How did he pass that stresstest??? Answer: “ I don't think I'm barking at the moon every Tuesday”
Subject of morals… now I’m going to be a bit mean here – sorry about that- “there is no room once you start for any morals, if you have a moral disagreement with the operation - well you volunteer - you can always leave the SAS - there is no one keeping you there. some people have - there's no big deal.
I think it was a big a deal to Frank C.
FEPOW – what does that mean?? Anyone??
About the chat: “andy, what do you think of this chat set up ? I think it is brilliant!”
Answer: Andy McNab : Absolutely! There should be more of it!
I don’t think there was an answer I couldn’t agree more to!!!!!!!!!!
My answer to this remark: “I still have a pair of boots made out of rabbit skin!”
Very nice, but rabbits don’t pay for being mentioned!!
About his audience showing up: “I I'm so surprised so many people logged on! / I was expecting to be sitting here twiddling my thumbs!“
AND WE WEREN’T EVEN THERE! Be prepared next time Andy!!
Last one: on his age: “I have just turned 43. A body of 63 and a mental age of 3!!!”
Happy birthday, wish you’d told us! No really, that’s our guy, love his humour.
And this was just the worldbookday chat. I’m not getting into the history channel chat, I’ve bored you all long enough raving about this one (but I’ll be back whether you like it or no- hahaha)
Take care !
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 13:15)
Sweden 19/3/03 14.50 hrs
POW= Prisoner of war I think
>>By Swedish reader (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 14:51)
W, 19/3/03 (8:15am) US
Man-oh-man, Lynn! When you get rollin', you really get rollin'!
Absolutely to everything! And just a few to add:
One comment particularly relevant to discussions of the "true" story:
Q: Did you ever worry Bravo Two Zero wouldn’t get past the authorities?
AM: No, not at all. They were the original ones who asked me to write it in the first place... So we all sat down with the manuscript and went through the points that they were worried about - they were either changed or taken out.
Aaaah -- ... points THEY were worried about ... were either CHANGED or TAKEN OUT.... That certainly indicates who truly orchestrated the manipulation of facts!
To answer your question, Lynn, I do recall reading in other places that it had been suggested to Andy that he should write his version, particularly since DLB was using the debriefings of Andy, Chris, Mike, Mal and Dinger to include their story in his book! Andy said he decided then that he should tell the story himself. Same comment has also been made by Chris.
FEPOW -- Far East POWs
Somebody seriously needs to set Andy straight on Transworld -- hate to say it, but obviously they're doing a good job at keeping him deluded or clueless!
I absolutely love your "personal chatroom" suggestion for us. We've got to get our thinking caps on and figure out how to make such a thing happen -- gee whiz, I wonder if Transworld would help? As Kelly would say: Yeah, right -- AS IF !
Yeah, I had thought about his birthday -- end of December... curious comment about age of body tho' -- just joking or maybe actual physical toll taken?
"Barking at moon" and "It's a Ducatis or nothing! Sort yourself out!" -- I fell out laughing! Nope, Andy has no ghostwriter! Those are definitely Nick-isms or Nick-speak....
Well, now I'm grinnin' thinking of all the other Andy/Nick-isms that crack me up... must go get books and refresh my chuckles for the day.....
'til sooner....
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 15:13)
I'm lagging on you guys at the mo and losing ground...The title of my info post today is: en passant...
Asher concludes in his book: "The blame must not lie with McNab and Ryan, but with us, the reading public, who demand not heroes of endurance, but the resolution of all problems by force. It is today's morality, where the response to every international thread is to hit out. Force itself is viewed as more cleaner and more upright than subterfuge, and aggression and violence are the defining characteristics of heroism and power. More than anything, McNab and Ryan exist to hide the truth about war that is to be found at the level of Bagdad's Amiraya Bunker [where hundreds of civilians were killed by Allied bombs]: that it is a filthy business in which thousands of innocent people are mutilated and killed by faceless weapons developed and operated by tens of thousands of nameless, faceless men and women. In this age where wars are won by technology, we are more anxious than ever to believe in Rambo. But Rambo does not exist, not even in the SAS. He is a cipher - an acceptable human mask for the incomprehensible monster of modern war."
buddy: Richard Tomlinson had a lot to say at one time, too, about faceless persons within the intelligence sector...David Shaylor also stirred dust clouds in the corridors of national security, thinking of which, one wonders how Western religious leaders might be viewing present sand storms in IRAQ, perhaps asking: who is strongest, Allah or God?
THE FOLLOWING IS NON-COPYRIGHT!!! It is however from a reliable source, and provides interesting data/clues to the work of some Ks...
STROBE FLASH GUN, a device which is occasionally deployed by special forces to, for example, disorientate helicopter pilots or terrorists, and about which MI6 officers are briefed on during their training. In short, similar to the circumstances and witness accounts of the crash that killed the Princess of Wales, Dodi Al Fayed, and Henri Paul..
Diana's crash car eyewitness, Francoise Levistre (or Levi) had told them that he was driving just ahead of Diana's Mercedes when he saw a motorcycle swerve directly in front of the Mercedes, making it lose control. He had come to Paris for an evening out with his wife Valerie. He noticed many headlights bobbing up and down behind him in his rearview mirror as he approached the road tunnel under the Point d'Alma where the Mercedes crashed. From his home Rouen in Normandy, Levi told Reuters: "I said to my wife that there must be big shot behind us with a police escort. Then I went down into the tunnel and, again in my rearview mirror I saw the car in the middle of the tunnel with the motorcycle on its left, pulling ahead and then swerving to the right directly in front of the car . . . As the motorcycle swerved and before the car lost control, THERE WAS A FLASH OF LIGHT but then I was out of the tunnel and heard, but did not see the impact . . . I immediately pulled my car over to the curb but my wife said 'Let's get out of here. Its a terror attack' The big car had come off the road. Panic stricken we drove away."
(noteworthy: go to starred item**)
Valerie in her statement claims: The car (possibly Fiat Uno) was overtaken by big car. Afterwards in the tunnel there were VERY STRONG LIGHTS LIKE FLASHES.
(noteworthy: French doctor stopped to "assist" at scene of accident. In his statement he claimed the paparazzi arrived seconds later while Francoise Levistre and wife Valerie, maintained no one followed them out of the tunnel. The doctor did not mention the Fiat Uno or motorcycle parked in front of the crashed vehicle. He swore on oath the paparazzi arrived after he had stopped. The first paparrazi to arrive at the crash scene (later arrested) claimed other vehicles were already there when they arrived. They further claimed a car was seen to drive away from the immediate scene of the accident.)
Valerie Levistre later said: 'After a party with my friends, I was returning to my home. A motorcycle with two men forced me off the road. I was very frightened.
Anonymous Eye Witness Report: There were reports of a second car, just ahead of Diana's, at the time of the crash, and that this may be a crucial factor in her death.
PARIS/WIESBADEN, Sept. 9th 1997 (EIRNS)- There are two separate witnesses, both of whom choose to remain anonymous, who are quoted by the newspaper Journal du Dimanche, saying that a car driving IN FRONT OF, the Mercedes S280, forced the Mercedes to start braking, as it entered the tunnel. The first witness says: "The Mercedes was driving on the right hand, shortly before the entry of the tunnel, preceded by a dark-colored automobile, of which make I cannot say. This car clearly was attempting to force the Mercedes to brake . . . The driver of the Mercedes veered into the left-hand lane, and then entered the tunnel.'' The witness said that what drew his attention to the scene, was the loud sound of the Mercedes' gears being suddenly lowered. The other witness, who was walking along the riverside, said he was surprised by the "sound of a motor humming very loudly.'' He said he saw a Mercedes:"travelling behind another automobile. I believe that the reason the Mercedes accelerated so suddenly, was to try to veer into the left lane, and pass that car.''
This raises the possibility, or perhaps probability, that Mercedes driver Henri Paul thought, or was convinced, that the automobile was driven by people who had the intent of killing his passengers, and therefore, decided to pass that car at any cost, by suddenly massively accelerating, from the 100 kilometers per hour he was driving just before the tunnel, to the 150 kph in the tunnel. Also noteworthy, is the Journal du Dimanche report, that there are 16 meters of skid marks left by the Mercedes' tires.
The paparazzi were heard crying 'It's Diana'. Brenda's evidence calls into question initial claims that pursuing paparazzi were to blame. She makes the first mention of photographers after the accident when 'five or six' paparazzi arrived and took pictures. Days later, despite extensive inquiries in the Paris suburb of Champignay sur Marne where she told police she lived, Brenda could not be located. She had mysteriously disappeared. Another important fact she pointed out was a prominent CCTV camera in position overlooking the crash site. It is a traffic camera, which on the day was facing the entrance to the tunnel where Diana's car crashed. Of course, it is possible that the camera, at the moment of the crash, was facing a different direction.
(However, according to the Lobster magazine, http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/ (winter 1999), there are rumours that electricity supplies in the road tunnel were cut off 25 minutes before Diana's Mercedes entered it. It could be for this reason, as Lobster notes, that the CCTV cameras covering the crash site both before and after the crash were NOT WORKING. When Mohammed Al Fayed's (father Dodi Al Fayed) lawyers requested copies of the tapes from 17 cameras that covered the journey of Diana's Mercedes from the Ritz Hotel to the Point d'Alma, they were told by French police that no such tapes existed for those cameras. In fact, French authorities claimed that the cameras were "not recording any images at the time (of the crash). It was noted by NBC that Paris has the "most sophisticated video surveillance system of any city in the world", with all cameras recording to video tape and saved for two days - except on this occasion . . .)
The British establishment could not stomach the idea that Diana - in love with an Egyptian Muslim - might herself convert to Islam, so they got rid of her . . .
** We are all aware UKN is autonomy at its worst if sometimes necessary. Those selected to "cesspit duties " are certified as uninformed " K ", primarily artless individuals .
(Reuters, Paris, Quoted on Internet 4/9/97. Another eyewitness, Londoner Brenda Wells, 40, had told police how she was forced off the road by a motorbike following Diana's Mercedes at high speed (According to Richard Tomlinson at least one of the "paparazzi" on a fast motorbike chasing the Mercedes was a member of "UKN", a small corps of part-time MI6 agents who provide miscellaneous services to MI6 such as surveillance, and photography expertise).
(Independent on Sunday, 12th October 1997). the Independent on Sunday suggested in an article Was Diana Murdered ? in 1997:"Her refusal to be cowed, to go quietly . . . had taken her into new avenues, to campaigning for the abolition of land mines to the fury of the United States government and the shadowy arms community. She was becoming ever more closely involved with a Muslim, and not just any old Muslim but the son of a man who was, and is, a thorn in the side of the Conservative British establishment. So, she was cut down" (Independent on Sunday, 19th October 1997).
>>By buddy (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 17:42)
W, 19/3/03 (12:55pm) US
Totally OT (off-topic) and Totally On Topic! An awesome amount of info to absorb let alone contemplate...
Have you been following this line/theory all along, Buddy?
Side note:
Frank Collins was on Mohammed Al Fayed's close-protection team...
Tangent NS aspect:
Liberation Day, constant awareness of CCTV systems....
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 19:03)
A week after the incident a *friend* - shhhhhhh - in the shadowland of grey suit/miltary clubs didn't tell me what he knew but his eyes answered questions/theories posed...
I don't need to follow or chase lines/theories they have a habit of coming my way...
I've got a shocker on G Bush & Osama bi Laden. Will send offboard...
There are so many interesting cross-threads on the messageboard that I couldn't decide which one to follow so thought bugger it I'll post a new one to tease...
>>By buddy (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 19:48)
W, 19/3/03 (2:06pm) US
Fanx!
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 20:06)
AGAIN !!!!!!!
LIVE CHAT: Andy McNab
By Nicole O'Neil, This is London
14 March 2003
He’s an SAS hero who’s been through torture for his country and now Andy McNab is here to chat to This is London readers *** this Thursday at 1pm ***
www.thisislondon.co.uk
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003 22:22)
W, 19/3/03 (6:25pm) UK
Note: You need to register with This Is London in order to participate in the chat -- suggest pre-registering asap.
I've emailed TIIL a request for instructions on how soon to log in, protocol, etc. Will post if they respond in time. Will email all who have given me their email addresses.
If you haven't emailed me yet, you can reach me at email4gnod@aol.com.
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 20 Mar 2003 00:26)
Just a short one,
chat was great, not the chat itself, rather disorderly, or so it
seemed to me. But talking to 'our guy' was great.
Got 2 questions answered, Am-I-Binned one too, Swedish Reader 2, so that makes at least 5 for our team!
Or are there more, anyone of the others?
Speak soon !
Lynn
>>By Lynn (Friday, 21 Mar 2003 19:15)
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