Andy Mcnab
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>>By Ignaty (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 12:20)
'though I can see the perspective of a lesser AM fan' oooh get you ha ha. Fans don't have to be blinkered they can be critical too. And if you are honest you can see that he does tend to repeat himself sometimes and it doesn't always add to the story in the way that it should.
But I loved the stakeout bits too, the clingfilm - ugh can't think of anything worse oh don't put it in your pocket! and the leave your car window down to stop condensation. I tried in Tesco carpark waiting for hubby and beer, he thought I was nuts but hey, who cares? Can't seem to sit still for long enough though....
>>By Bethan (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 16:22)
The thing with series is that what's new and fresh in the first isn't as fresh in book 5. All of the repetitive "clicking" , details about recces, opsec and all that, is for people who pick up book 5 and read it first. It needs to be there or they miss a major part of what makes AM's style so interesting. For those who've read his earlier work, it can be very much a "been there, done that" situation, though.
I try to remember that Nick/AM can't forget or cut corners on any of those nitpicking details. If he does, it's not going to make the story more or less interesting, it's going to get Nick/AM killed. Nick is fictional, but AM's done this. He's seen and experienced what happens when things go down the toilet, for whatever reason. I like his writing getting that across.
There is a segment of LD that does read a bit slow, but it's probably more like that in the field than non-stop James Bond action. I'd rather have the sense of reality.
My criticisms tend to land more on the heads of editors. Like.... AM is too detail -oriented to just forget to tell us what happened with the Ducati in FW. It was probably cut by the editors. :) He got it back for a little while anyway.
I just saw MI-5 last night. Not sure which episode it was but the lead guy (young, dark-haired nice-looking fellow) is dealing with an IRA terrorist and some laptop he takes home. Very interesting show. Should be on tonight too, so maybe I can catch up a little.
>>By Dare (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 17:17)
(I originally posted this one in the Chris Ryan board yesterday, but unfortunately the pace is a bit slow over there. I'll post it in here as well):
In all respect to Ryan, McNab and all the other SAS lads, I must say that I can sympathize with Ken Connors (and Peter Ratcliffes for that matter) views about ex SAS soldiers reducing the proffesional reputation of the Regiment by doing all kinds of "bark for a dollar" projects in civvie street. Reducing is perhaps too strong of a word, but I hope you all get my drift.
It seems that Ryan has taken it to full lenghts regarding commercial projects. He's already done Ultimate Force. Now he's involved in two reality shows - one about serving members of the Regiment hunting him down, the other about finding the most fit family in the UK ?!?
Ryan and Cameron Spence have each served as technical advisors in computer games (respectively Project IGI-2 and Conflict: Desert Storm).
McNab served as an instructor/technical advisor in the movie "Heat" (great movie btw, especially the contact drill after the bank-robbery. The contact drill was of course instructed by AM).
So this is what I'd like to say to CR: "Yo, Chris!! This is getting a bit out of hand, don't you think mate!?
Btw, Chris has always been my "favourite" guy, so that's perhaps why my military heart is bleeding......
Still, Barry Davies started doing this stuff before Ryan, and Davies goes for being one the really "old sweats" in the Regiment. (As you know, he's written numerous SAS survival handbooks and similar).
>>By ortlieb (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 17:23)
Sorry, I'm not ignoring that the conversation has moved on, but I just came across this article re: Mal and Pilgrims training program and found it both funny and really intriguing. (Hmm... ooops! sorry, daydreaming for a moment...) Damn, Bethan, too bad your company didn't follow through on getting you trained!
www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/
0,4273,4170773,00.html
'Never mind the danger, I've got a deadline'
Nick Hopkins undergoes riot training for journalists
Guardian, Monday, April 16, 2001)
Okay, that out of the way, with regard to LD vs previous AM NS books, I have some personal (subjective and objective) theories on why LD might have seemed a little "weaker" than AM's other stories.
Minor Spoiler Warnings!
First off, each of AM's previous fictions were based in/on facts which can be researched: (RC) Operation Flavius, PIRA and Noraid; (CF) Osama bin Laden, Afghan/Muj connections and White House security; (F) ROC, Echelon and Moonlight Maze; and (LL) Sunburn Missiles and US/Chinese/Panamanian politics. LD is based around al-Qaeda funding via hawalla which, although true, is more generalized and not as specifically fact and/or event based.
Second, AM's first five books have significant "betrayals" -- where NS dramatically learns just how much he didn't know about the much bigger picture. To me, LD's betrayal – George’s having a hidden agenda and future use for Greaseball and Curly -- seemed less of an international-conspiracy-politics type betrayal and more of a personal betrayal (that George would have sacrificed NS and his team -- no surprise though really). Maybe that's because AM did not seem to include as much of the big international picture politics, etc., in LD as he did in his previous books. George’s intentions are almost too cloaked in LD. At least in LL, you knew what he hoped to accomplish.
For me, what LD did have was a much greater emotional impact than any of AM's other stories, even more than in CF when Sarah crushes Nick a second time with her ultimate betrayal. In CF, I had terrible sympathy for Nick, how he'd actually begun to hope again for a future with her again, but I did not regret his final decision/solution in any way -- no if-onlys at all. In LD, however, I was emotionally devastated about Hubba-Hubba and Lotfi, and I regretted terribly for Nick having delayed just that moment too long -- loads of if-onlys! (Confession: I have only read LD once, sort of "being in denial" -- I haven't re-read because I don't want what happens to L and HH to happen!)
We've discussed (and AM has too) the emotional maturing of NS. I think it mainly started in LL, with NS trying to deal with demons that were getting beyond his control and with Carrie seeming to offer a stabilizing influence and then continuing through into LD. The majority of LD, however, NS is without Carrie, yet he's finding self-value as he realizes that L and HH value him. They do not use, abandon, betray or deceive him as everyone else (except for Kelly) has in the past, and that even includes Carrie who, in LD, seemed less loyal to NS than these two men.
I don't really know where I want DW to go as far as Carrie is concerned, but I'm hoping, since "Dark Winter" was an actual NSA-simulated terrorist attack (researchable fact), that AM will have blended the fact-based, betrayal-ridden fiction of his earlier books with the emotional impact, self-growth aspects of LD...
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 17:26)
Just a little trivial point about LD... I read the whole book, thinking that Nick's two Egyptian accomplices were called Hubba-Hubba and Lofti (F before the T), it was only when I was glancing over it several weeks later that I realised it was in fact Lotfi (T before the F). LOFTI sounds so much better lol
>>By Ignaty (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 18:42)
Don't feel alone, Ignaty, I was doing the very same thing! I found out early on though when I listened to an abridged audio sample and realized I'd been transposing the letters. Just in case anyone would like to hear some samples, this link has several, including AM's Liberation Day, and CR's Greed, Land of Fire, and The Watchman: www.randomhouse.co.uk/offthepage/audio.htm :o)
>>By am-i-binned (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 20:08)
Hey,
I was actually doing the exact same thing and didn't realise i was until now lol thanx.
>>By christina (Tuesday, 2 Sep 2003 21:32)
I always thought it was lofti too. How bizarre only one of us can read properly!
Actually AIB I'm glad our training fell through we were supposed to go to the Congo but they thought I was too precious to risk ha ha. Plus the fact that I'd rather read about it than actually do it myself I wasn't too gutted I am queen couch potato! Mind you I would love to know what Dr Sex looks like! Is he as gorgeous as Andy McNab makes out?
I read Liberation Day twice before giving it to my Dad who I have to admit hated it. I was horrified he killed off Lotfi and Hubba Hubba and in such a horrible way and part the way through I wasn't sure he wouldn't kill Nick off too. But one question I hope he'll answer is whether he managed to get back to the hire car and take the money for their families. I'd love to know how he'd do it.
>>By Bethan (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 10:05)
Whoa, Bethan, isn't that kinda personal -- how AM "makes out"?!? (wink, wink! nudge, nudge!) LOL! Phfwump! Ooops, my face just burst into flames!
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 10:53)
LOL oh boy you guys got me laughing now...
Keep it up brother from another mother, hahahaha!
>>By borisette (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 13:26)
Article of the SAS, this time they didn't behave so well...
read it on mirror.co.uk
plus for those who want to go on the Atkins diet, the Mirror gives you several menu's , and it works, I've been doing induction for 2 weeks now and allready lost 2,5kg, another 2.5 to go.
>>By borisette (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 14:01)
Ooops...
Looks like they've seriously dropped a bollock there!!
>>By ortlieb (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 14:22)
One of the negative reviews of Liberation Day I was talking about earlier claims the book has been edited poorly. Apparently, one page Nick was driving a Citroen (or a Renault, can't remember the order) and the next page he is driving a Renault (/Citroen). I didn't notice this, maybe someone else did?
>>By Ignaty (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 17:39)
Hmmm, Ignaty...
Sounds like some of the editing glitches in other AM books, Ignaty (t-shirt [CF] and Ducati [F/LL]). I don't remember a Citroen/Renault switch, but it probably doesn't help that I'm oblivious to cars except as a means of getting from here to there. Now I'll be on the lookout when I do re-read LD... ;o)
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 18:57)
This is so difficult.
I have to read the posts with my eyes closed, or else I'l see the spoilers.
There's only one thing to do, then, read LB :)
Till then, I can't react a lot.
>>By Lethe (Wednesday, 3 Sep 2003 22:22)
I vaguely remember something about a Citroen. I'll have to read it again to try and spot it. Oh darn! ;)
I very much enjoyed Nick's relationship with Lotfi (I read it right :P) and Hubba-hubba. :) I think its a great way for AM to gradually build up to Nick's personal changes.
Gosh, I love Nick being able to act not just for others but for himself, as well! It seems he's really believing in his own worth as a person now, instead of believing that he deserves whatever sh** falls on him.
Oh, and it's nice to know that AM reads the last chapter first in a book too. Actually, I read the first bit, then the last chapter then the middle.... but its close enough to figure I do SOMETHING like AM. :)
>>By Dare (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 05:38)
Completely forgot to bring the article with me but it was in The Sun Britain's classiest tabloid paper (sarcasm but as I always read it says a lot about me!!). If you want the whole article just shout and I'll try to remember to post it.
But the brief version is (no date as to when this happened but has to be post 1995 at least) an SAS staff sergeant (now 42) was sacked after testing positive for cannabis which his wife grew in the house (but he did admit to the occassional smoke!) His legal people told him to have his pee sample independently tested but the MOD or whoever had lost it (sample), so he sued them for loss of earnings. And he's won £600,000 back pay and lost pension. Apparantly he was in GW1 and served in Bosnia. Pick a pseudonym from any SAS book written by your favourite author and others it may be any of them.
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 09:22)
When Hubba-Hubba is compromised Lotfi (I got it right too Dare, guess our IQ is just a little higher.. hahaha) goes after them in his Ford Focus while Nick is taking HH's car. (page 324 in my UK version). It says "By now I'd extracted the key ob and hit it to release the central locking. I jumped in and began turning the Citroën round so I could back Lotfi. (...) Forcing the Scudo round in to the traffic and driving down towards the market... " The Scudo is of course a Fiat not a Citroën.
Lethe, we do mention * Spoiler warning* if we post something you shouldn't read before having read the book. I didn't say 'warning' now because I don't think reading the above will give you any clues...
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 09:40)
Ok now this has nothing to do with AM, I just wanted to know how many kg's are in one stone.
>>By borisette (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 12:45)
There are 6.35 kg in one stone (just looked in front of diary! I'm not sad enough to know that off the top of my head).
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 13:17)
when i said NK books gets pretty bad after one another was based on the amount of actions and hilarious conversations in the books. Remote control was great because of its various plots that twisted with each other making one great plot thus creating suspense. Liber. day was not as good becuase it lacked some actions and had an extremely short climax!
>>By dxa111 (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 17:49)
Welcome, dxa111...
While impressions of LD may vary, I think it's safe to assume that we all share your appreciation of RC, including AM!
Live Chat with Andy McNab, World Book Day Online Festival, 6th March 2003
http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/andymcnab.html
Guest: Andy, which is your favourite book that you have written?
AM: The favourite book I have written was Remote Control... it was an experiment to try and get into fiction writing - it worked - it went to number one and all those nice things... so it was fantastic!
craig: Which of your books did you must enjoy writing?
AM: Probably the last one - Liberation Day - purely because of the tradecraft is getting better... if I get asked this question this time next year it'll be Dark Winter!
Borisette and Bethan:
Awww, come on now, you guys! Not fair! It's not like I'm mathematically gifted or anything! Kilometres vs miles, metres vs yards/feet, litres vs quarts/gallons, Celsius vs Fahrenheit, 00.00 hours vs AM/PM, GBP vs US$, 5.56 vs 7.62 rounds (well, okay, I know rounds don't convert but I try to keep them straight at least...) -- now I have to remember that 1 stone is 14 pounds vs 6.35 kilograms?!? Ooooh, my poor head! Anybody have a couple of extra-strength aspirin, 250mgs each? ;o)
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 19:23)
Thanks a lot Bethan!!!:D
AmIbinned: now for headaches you should come to me for some therapy, it works on my other patients and without taking an aspirin aswell, just a big wack on the head, and every pain dissappears, you can even see clearer afterwards, and I get paid for it too, isn't that great!
Well I read that Andy Mcnab's LD wasn't all that good, well maybe I'll wait for DW and see how that one comes out. I mean all those editing faults aswell, now tut tut tut Andy that's not good at all.
I'm off .. I'm feeling sick, ..help!
(maybe I'm exagerating a bit with the dieting, sigh)
>>By borisette (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 20:45)
Uhmm... Borisette?
Is that the infamous home remedy -- a two-pound hammer upside my head? If so, yeah, I'll bet you see clearer afterwards, especially with the extra starlight in your eyes! LOL! But I'll bop you upside the head if you don't read LD before DW! Remember our mantra: If possible, in published. If possible, in published. If possible, in published.... Oooohmmmm....
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 21:20)
WB dxa-111, It's true the climax was a bit wham-bam-thank you, ma'am, but IMHO the story and character development held up very well. True, there isn't quite as much humor as in previous books, but then AM got criticized for immature writing BECAUSE of the humor in previous books. :)
Borisette, don't believe everything critics say. Even fan critics. I liked LD, but that's just me. ;)
RC has a sharpness to it. Very tight story telling. Actually, I thought the infiltration of the PIRA front office was a bit much but .... what the heck, it held together. I just wish Nick would show as much determination to whack bad guys that keep messing with him and Kelly. He polished off Simmonds and Euan. Why not go for a matched set and take out Lynn and Elizabeth or Yes-Man, Sundance and Sneakers? The best way to make sure they don't show up on Josh's or Kelly's doorstep sometime in the undetermined future is to wipe them out now.
LD has a tightly woven story too, but it moves slowly in some spots. I agree with Bethan and wish AM had tied up more loose ends. Especially with regards to Lotfi's and Hubba-hubba's family.
>>By Dare (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 22:49)
Oooh, Dare, topping my Nick-hit-wish list -- George!
______
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Please contact me via flork, even if you have to create an aka...
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Please flork or email me...
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 4 Sep 2003 23:42)
Aye, AIB. George is up at the top of my list too. :)
>>By Dare (Friday, 5 Sep 2003 03:43)
'Why not go for a matched set and take out Lynn'
Don't worry Lynn I'll protect you ha ha. I'm an expert in close personal protection and self defence and I never leave the house without my 9mm strapped to me!
I have to agree George is top of my list too but closely followed by Elizabeth. Lets hope in Dark Winter he does get some revenge on all of them, but I'm not quite ready for him to run off into the sunset yet.
>>By Bethan (Friday, 5 Sep 2003 13:43)
I would like to see Nick doing a job for the Democrat (from Firewall)! The Democrat was meant to give Nick a mission at the end of that book, but we never found out what it was in Last Light! God, every time I think of the very last line of Firewall I have to try not to laugh. That is a top quality end.
>>By Ignaty (Friday, 5 Sep 2003 18:04)
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