Andy Mcnab
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>>By Just Jon (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 02:23)
Micka if it is that pillock Michael Asher then it aint worth watching, the guy is a waffler and after reading 3 different versions of what went on in Iraq in 1991 he ought to be shot for what he says! According to this clown, a few rag 'eds sent the Bravo Two Zero on the run and they were just everyday farmers, the guy is an insult to to the likes of BC, VP & SL. Boils my blood everytime I see someone selling his book on ebay, the only thing thats anygood for is wiping my @rse!!
>>By Big G (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 05:45)
I agree with Big G after reading Ashers books I thought I had wasted my time, also he claims to be former SAS but Chris Ryan has stated that he isn't. Asher go's to the desert and by using the sketch maps in the books manages to stumble across every person in the books from the Shepard to the taxi driver ( he also calls Mcnab a liar because there are no yellow cars in Iraq). He also said that eight of the best-trained soldiers in the world were chased of by 3 Shepard’s one of which was an old man with a shotgun, seems a bit far fetched if you ask me.
>>By Psicosis (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 10:27)
Oh yea, I know Asher talks complete nonsense but the tv program is quite good. You get to see all the LUPs better than in the book. IMO he was just trying to come of as nice man michael going into the desert for poor vince phillips who everyone blamed. McNab didn't blame vince once he only said he was to disorientated to pass on that they where stopping. And the prospect that 8 soldiers from the most elite regiment in the world could be chased by and oap and a cripple and his brother is just stupid.
And asher was in 23 SAS the territorial unit. Basicly pussies compared to the propper 22 SAS
>>By Mickalos (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 14:28)
Re: Asher's SAS experience:
In his book The Real B20, Asher says he was a former member of the Parachute Regiment and the Territorial Army 23 SAS. I'm sure he explains his background more thuroughly in his second book, Shoot to Kill.
Chris Ryan says in an interview with Codemasters (the computer game company that hired him to serve as technical advisor for the game "Project IGI-2", and probably what you were referring to, Psicosis) that -- "that man has never been in the SAS".
Now... seing as Chris Ryan joined the 23 SAS before we went on to do selection for the 22 SAS, one would assume that he's in a good position to know what he's talking about (close knowledge to what goes on in the corridors of the 23 SAS base, who's who, the name game etc).
In any case - indepentently, I think Asher was too biased from the get-go. He is the "sand dune hugger" of anything Arabic related, so....... But still... I have no doubts that Asher knows what he's talking about when it comes to that stuff. In fact... maybe the Regimental head-shead should've given him a call and asked him what kind of desert they could expect to encounter in Iraq in 1991......
>>By ortlieb (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 16:25)
Ort as detailed in Mike Coburns book, the weather experienced during that exercise had never happened before and it was a freak contrast to normal, obviously they knew it would be cold but they didn't expect snow due to the fact it hadn't done so before.
As for that pillock Asher I think it's more bitterness than anything else!
As for Vince Phillips being blamed, I think the only person who tried to blame him was Chris Ryan and he has lost many a mate over those comments and the way Philips was portrayed in the book and film The one that got away.
As previously suggested to all who haven't, go buy Mike Coburns Soldier Five The REAL Bravo Two Zero then Im happy to listen to sensible remarks, this guy had no need to lie but the government did!!
>>By Big G (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 20:20)
I think it proves how much of a pillock he is in that he constantly says arabs never ever lie and then the bloke who found vince lies about not having his pistol. And definately buy Coburns book, in my opinion it's the most truthful one.
>>By Mickalos (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 00:53)
Chris Ryan says in an interview with Codemasters that -- "that man has never been in the SAS".
I would personnally take anything that CR says with a pinch of salt!!..after all he's the only one in the whole regiment that recalls knifing Iraquis and blowing up vehicles on his escape from Iraq...funnily he forgot to mention it on the post op briefing..!!! Also the slagging off he gave some of the members of the patrol doesnt make him seem entirely trustworthy to me....regardless of whether he reckons it was the publishers and/or film makers who implied these things, especially about vince...well sorry Chris 'baby' that doesnt wash!!...I'm sure this is not new news for anybody here and if it has been debated to death, then I apologise.
As for Asher, I agree 100% with what people have written...I mean comeon now ALL people of whatever race are 100% trustworthy arent they?....go down any high street in the UK after shop closing hours and count the iron shutters over shopfronts, do the same in any Arabic Souk in the world...they have a real high sense of security seeing as everyone is so honest!!!
Mickalos,
'And asher was in 23 SAS the territorial unit. Basicly pussies compared to the propper 22 SAS'
say that when you try selection for it!! and after all didnt the beloved CR start his career in 23 SAS
'And the prospect that 8 soldiers from the most elite regiment in the world could be chased by and oap and a cripple and his brother is just stupid.'
If it were three kids and a one-legged blind mexican on acid...it dont make a damn bit of difference if they are armed with an effective weapon (like the AK 47 !!) and, more importantly, know how to use it!! Perhaps the patrol could have taken the three out..in fact probably without a doubt...but with a regiment or so of jundies not too far away could they risk it?... not likely seeing as the SAS's ethos is 'shoot and scoot'
>>By ToeKnee (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 10:24)
Michael Asher completed SAS Selection but chose not to join, according to his biog, 'Shoot to Kill', he joined the RUC instead, a very odd decision. You just have to read all of these books for what they are, the real story will remain clouded forever I fear. Also note that many other SF authors have had their say about B20 in their own books, with differing conclusions, just to add to the mystique.
>>By camban (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 11:55)
I read 'shoot to kill' about 10 years ago, if memory serves me correct I think that after leaving the Para's Micheal Asher joined 'the Bronze', which were a bit like the B Specials, Sweeney and Special Branch all rolled into one....so given the time that he was there, and the targetting of the RUC by PIRA, its fair enough to say that no matter how much he respects the bedu..for all their honesty and grace undoubtedly!!! he did/does have a rather large set o 'nads!!
>>By ToeKnee (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 13:16)
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah, bravo two zero Blah blah blah blah Michael Asher Blah Blah Blah Chris Ryan Blah Blah Blah...
What you forget is that some of the troop sadly didnt make it and instead of talking negatives about a guy who has a lawrance of arabia fixation, instead show some respect for those brave lads who didnt make it back.
>>By brianauthor (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 15:51)
In roughly 17 days time it will be remembrance day here, and everyone seems to have a point of opinion, but nobody seems to care about those brave men and women who protect us and fight for us.
Be proud and fly the flag or wear a poppy show you care....There is a war going on as i write this, and its about time we paid tirbute to our men and women of the armed forces for their bravery... I would like to see a hero's day when servicemen and women are honoured for the duty they give their country..
There is one diffirence from the british army and the american, the american army cares and honours its men and women,it about time as a nation we do..
>>By brianauthor (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 16:04)
Its tommy this an tommy that, an chuck im out the brute!
but he's the saviour of the nation when the guns begin to shoot!!
or something like that...Brianauthor...as an ex squaddie i can say what most squaddies would say about the guys that died in B20..they are dead!!.....nothing we can say or do can bring them back......ok....move on....
and we can say how brave they were in dying for queen and country to protect the nation...etc etc..but that would be a load of bollocks..they didnt die to protect queen and country etc etc..they died because they were doing a job which they undoubtedly loved...
I didnt 'do my bit' for my country, I didnt do it for the citizens of britain..cos to tell you the truth, I, like most squaddies looked down on civilians..and in some cases rightly so....football hooliganism, ...social security spongers!....etc etc..
I did it because it was a job that I always wanted to do as a kiddie...you want to honour the Forces...how?.. a parade..give them more medals than u can poke a shitty stick at!!..medals for surviving Naafi Tea?...no give them more bloody pay!!...dont slap Poll tax on them when they go on operations from BFG, just cos they are no longer in BFG...(British Forces Germany..took over from BAOR)..force the government to pay out when guys lose their legs on UN ops..and dont get a f**kin dime for it!!..force the government to accept that Gulf War syndrome does exist...I know it does !!...
yes we did hazardous jobs, its what we were paid for...but we werent paid enough and with the cutbacks the overstretch and the inferior (cheap) equipment...its just not conducive to a peachy happy life when you are away on pissant little peace keeping ops all the bastard time!!
most suaddies couldnt give a toss what the civilians think of them or how they are perceived to be doing their 'bit' for Britain. I know I didnt!!
>>By ToeKnee (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 17:03)
Honour their forces. A good one there. Straight out of a sickly-sweet, sugar coated Hollywood blockbuster that, you have an agent? Step back from the online fantasy and into the real world. What do you do in remembrance? Standing still for 1 min don’t count as anything worthwhile.
McNab's a good read though, pity about the readers....
>>By marionette (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 17:43)
who died and gave you the right to judge marionette?
>>By xkidonim (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 18:28)
Dulce Et Decorum Est
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!-An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,-
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
I'm sry.. couldn't resist!! This is a good poem about how ""glorious"" a war is...
>>By Elendar (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 20:00)
ahh... the poem is by Wilfred Owen, and he was a close friend of Siegfried Sasson, which i'm not mistaken, has been read and recommended by Andy Mcnab
>>By Elendar (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 20:01)
Toeknee-
I appreciate your frank response.
And you're right. Soldiers don't get paid enough for the work they have to do.
>>By Majorette (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 20:26)
Access to secret files threatened by asbestos
(Filed: 25/10/2004)
Up to 10 million pages of vital military secrets have been rendered unusable by exposure to asbestos - and experts say the contamination threatens the operation of the Freedom of Information Act.
The 63,000 files include many nuclear secrets and the official versions of events such as the sinking of the Belgrano in 1982 and the killing of IRA terrorists in Gibraltar by the SAS in 1988.
(...)
Under the Freedom of Information Act, which comes into force on Jan 1, all such files can be subject to requests by members of the public. Campaigners for open government fear that the ministry will now be able to delay answering such requests.
Full article on
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?
xml=/news/2004/10/25/nfiles25.xml
>>By Lynn (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 20:39)
hey guys, just finishing reading chris ryans "the one that got away", and gotta say the guy was getting on my nerves towards the end, he seems more intent on pointing the finger at people, and seems into himself, i did this, i told andy to do that, i mean come on, yeah mistakes happen, but dont drag on it, i understand what they all went through is beyond the realms of ordinary people, but hmmmmm.
i dont mind his fictional books but didnt like this one.
i think that the nick stone series could be good if done properly, good actors, locations,scripts.
>>By deniable-kay (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 22:05)
Okay.. i'm going yo some AM related pictures for some work in Photoshop.. could anyone point me in the direction of good sites, where I can find AM/SAS related pictures?.. I'm so tired, that I just want to sleep right now. So I hope you'll help me get started..
>>By Elendar (Monday, 25 Oct 2004 23:56)
I'm about 1/3 through Dark Winter, and there's an NS statement that I find very odd (from a logical/military/technical viewpoint):
By the way: there are no spoils in this.
He's explaining how he and his partner are preparing for an op. They've both got the MP5 SD (supressed MP5), and as usual, McNab has NS explain a bit about the weapon, its functions etc. etc.
Now, what I find peculiar, is that NS remembers the SAS squaddies on ops in Northern Ireland used to prefer the G-3 (7.62 mm, SLR) with a fixed buttstock.
Then NS says something like "I'd prefer to have a G-3 on this op too, but the MP5 SD would do the job just as well".
Hmmm.... ??? A 9mm submachine gun (does not go noisy when fired, and doesn't provide a huge punch when hitting someone) versus the *very* noisy G-3 that *does* pack quite a punch when hitting someone/something....
Just a little detail thing that persons such as myself find odd....
>>By ortlieb (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 00:57)
He says he would rather have a G3 with a fixed butt because you can take long ranged accurate shots with it, but the SDs had collapsable stocks and they tend to wobble about a bit.
>>By Mickalos (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 02:47)
"who died and gave you the right to judge marionette?"
My father (Falklands).
>>By marionette (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 09:33)
Elender,
u want to read some of the books by Lynn Macdonald....I think.... I'm crap at names, and film titles..etc etc...But she wrote a few books about the first world war...maninly written with accounts from some of the survivors...jeez the stuff those fellas went through..makes the Gulf war look like a stroll in the park....
marionnette..
Standing still for 1 min don’t count as anything worthwhile....what would you suggest....firstly you fire a broadside into Brianauthor's suggestion to honour the forces..I think the idea is a bit twee myself but I think I put my thoughts in a little less personnally scathing retort !!...so how would you like to honour the Forces..seeing as your dad died in the falklands??
and presumably judging AM's readers includes judging yourself.....I may be a cynical crusty old twat, but my first post on here wasnt straight in slagging people off!!
Majorette,
thank you and no we didnt get paid enough!! and I guess they still dont!! when you consider a big Jessie like David Beckham gets paid millions for being a ponce..yeah okay he can play football...wow whoopsy f**kin do....and people like Police, nurses etc get paid a pittance in comparison!!..what a mixed up old world we have here..I personnally think that people like Beckhem should be conscripted into the forces and sent to the gulf..great big nancy boys that they are!!...but hey they are just my views.... :D
>>By ToeKnee (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 10:17)
‘but I think I put my thoughts in a little less personnally scathing retort !!’
Yes you did, I never been one for pussyfooting round people, my friend here knows that and can tell you of more than one time when we have ‘had words’. If you take things personally there is truth in what is said. I have been there. get the label as an army brat its hard to shake off. My only honour is a smile, cup of tea and a helping hand not rich enough to donate money. I volunteer every week of the year on top of my job as general home help and buddy to those that fought or the families left behind. Honour the living not the dead, it don’t help them. I have said my piece I will leave it there just think well-meant intentions sometimes hit home the hardest.
I do judge myself as a bad example too brash, too unaware and not the brightest spark but I am human. I get carried away by the sentimentality of the perfect image sometimes too!
Taking it back to what drew me here loved dark winter can he top that I hope so, Kelly thing was bad left me sad for days hope he gets some company to help replace the hole she will leave. Gonna be along wait for a borrowed copy tho.
>>By marionette (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 13:14)
Dear All .
Ok seems i might have ruffled a few feather, that was not my intention so apologies.. I'm just your average joe, who read books and wirtes the odd one or two... In writing about having sometype of day , was because we all remember the fallen but not those who serve us every working day.. The idea was to get people thinking, why cant we have the same programm like they do in america, the college plan for soldeirs leaving where all their costs are met, a VA hosptial in every city that gives the best care and treatemnet to ex serviceman, better pensions and army pay...
If it ruffled a few feathers like i said aopologies, and as us civvy street types are looked down on... I'll keep to reading the books... if its wrong to be so proud of your serviceman and women, then maybe i need to live in the US...
As for this andy mcnab page think i might start giving it a miss
>>By brianauthor (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 14:51)
Oh and sorry for the bad spelling have the flu
>>By brianauthor (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 15:00)
Brianauthor,
nobody said it was wrong to be proud of your country's servicemen...especially not if you are British seeing as we do have the best military in the world...okay maybe not the biggest or the best equipped...but as the old saying goes it aint how big it is!! its the way you use it!!..
and don't take offence when I said squaddies look down on civvies..on the whole they do, so live with it....its not a personal thing!!
I agree with you on the american style hospitals, education grants etc etc...cracking idea...but do you think our government would really do that!!! not likely cos the are only a bunch of self serving....well need I say anymore...
and as for giving this AM board a miss..well thats your perogative...and its also the main thing that seperates suqaddies..well any cohesive unit really, like the fire brigade, police etc...from civvies..they tend to hang in together when the going gets a bit rough..when the shite is flying and your colleagues take the piss all day long...
u grin grit your teeth and get on with it..and maybe tommorrow you can rip some F**ker apart with your sarcasm/wit/scathing comments..cos thats just how it goes.....
or you can throw the teddy out the pram and sulk off saying that the big boys are being nasty to you!!...it is of course entirely your decision!!
>>By ToeKnee (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 15:16)
P.S.
surely one of the reasons why we admire the SAS so much is due to the fact that they do hang in for so long, when it really is 'not a good day out,' to paraphrase someone!!...so dont let things get to you hang in there.......and f**k em all!!
>>By ToeKnee (Tuesday, 26 Oct 2004 15:21)
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