Andy Mcnab
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Hmmm... so my dreams are my reality? Excuse me... time to go night night...
>>By Majorette (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 17:45)
Irishmen have a great capacity for remembering faces - pseudonyms mean nothing to them!! So do Irishwomen!
Rather a nice story of an ex Para who went back to NI fiften years after serving there, and let's be honest Paras are not popular in Belfast, up walks a young man says "Don't I know you?"
Imagine what the ex Para was thinking right then....
Anyhow, to cut a long story short the young man had been a mere six year old when the Para saved him from being run over by a car - no more than a few minutes of exchange yet the kid had remembered him...
That is not unusual, other blokes that have returned for reasons best known to themselves have also mentioned similar incidents of recognition - both ways, sometimes quite adrenaline charged moments of deja vu.
>>By devonwren (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 17:48)
Interestingly one wonders how often AM pondered the likelihood of coming face to face with recognisable entities during his return trip to Iraq. How many heart-stopping moments occurred?
I imagine he experienced many moments of mixed emotions!!
>>By devonwren (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 17:58)
Reality... dream... reality.. dream.. reality. dream. reality. dream reality... hmmm....
Thanks for the link, Bikergirl...
Good article... and a very good man writing it.
Very intuitive, Ortlieb...
You might not have read the article but you're definitely operating from the same page as John Nichol.
Recommendations:
Tornado Down, by RAF Flight Lieutenants John Peters and John Nichol, with assistance from William Pearson... (oooh, a writing helper!) :o) Excellent for debunking "exaggeration" theories... if anything, their experiences seem to indicate that AM understated rather than overstated...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/war/
RAF Flight Lt. John Peters
Peters was shot down, captured and taken to the 'Baghdad Biltmore' (along with Flight Lt. John Nichol) where he was brutally beaten, tortured and displayed on Iraqi television. Peter’s story begins with an account of his first interrogation in Baghdad.
US Army Major Rhonda L. Cornum (Flight Surgeon)
Cornum was one of three crew members who survived the crash of their search-and-rescue helicopter. With broken arms and other injuries, she was taken prisoner. Story begins where the Iraqis are about to discover she's a woman.
US Air Force Colonel David W. Eberly
("David" who was in the cell next to AM, Dinger and Mal/Stan)
Eberly and his co-pilot spent six weeks in isolation in the Baghdad headquarters of the Iraqi Intelligence Service, where he was brutally interrogated. His story begins where he has spent several days in the desert and he is just about to be captured.
SAS Patrol Commander ... (aw com'on now, don't everyone say his name! vbw!)
Cutting to the chase, AM's story starts at the point where their firefight with the Iraqis is about to erupt.
US Air Force Colonel Jeff Tice
Colonel Tice's F16 was hit by AA missiles during a daylight raid over Baghdad. Captured by Bedouins (Ha! Wonder if Asher interviewed any of them?), he was then turned over to Iraqi soldiers and taken to an underground interrogation bunker in Baghdad, where his story starts.
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 18:04)
cogito ergo sum
I think therefore I am
Descarte
Dagnam! Who'd have thought I ever learnt anything in philosophy in language class AND that it would ever come in useful.
well admittedly it hasnt changed anyone's lives here but....actually I think I have to go there's um.... LOOK OVER THERE!!!
*scarper*......
>>By Pomplemous (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 19:10)
Oh I found me a GEM!!!
bored girl here - should be doing something useful here searched for something interesting to read and found a military forum thing in UK - has all sorts of military people there - including a bunch of Special Forces people - so you can talk to them directly and ask anything you want! chi-chinnngggg! result!
they are so funny to read! militaryforums.co.uk
>>By Pomplemous (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 19:28)
Well hello to you all.
Just joined up so be gentle. Wondering about your views on how close in accuracy McNab discusses intelligence issues in his books ie. government departmental nick-names for various subjects relating to intelligence matters etc.
>>By Reginald (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 20:29)
Gosh, another man doth enter stage right...
Hi Reginald: hope you're wearing a hard hat! ;) Gee, someone who actually wants to talk AM books in technical terms. Flork me!! (forward march)
Interesting point Reg, so watch it girls you could end up sitting on this one...
So which publisher are you promoting this time, AIB? One thing about it, the listed authors couldn't have all had the same lit agent, not unless Lucas does double night-shifts.
Clue there Rose, on RAF pilots and intros...
>>By devonwren (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 21:01)
Someone at the door so had to go, and forgot to post this.
http://www.intelligenceonline.com/
Identification/p_identification.asp?rub=login
It is interesting to note that AM had a bit of trouble with MoD over the book "Immediate Action".
Apparently it was banned following an injunction by the MoD. It was claimed the book could have compromised covert operations in Northern Ireland and, Bosnia. As far as the MoD were concerned it didn't matter one jot the fact the elite regiment had been withdrawn from the province, and secondary fact that the author had never served in Bosnia.
tut tut, such fibbing does go on, you know...That aside, it did make it to the bookstands, so I guess a lot of pruning had to be initiated and carried through to order...
>>By devonwren (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 21:44)
all books of this nature have to go past the MOD, when Baptism of Fire was before them they made some very trivial changes,eg specific countries became Africa etc despite the fact that everyone knows where Brit troops train in Africa, bit difficult to miss them and their bloody big helicopters, and parachutes are not normally used by the lions or zebras!!. they made it very difficult for FC, and a group of christians who worked in the MOD had invited FC to speak had to withdraw the invite, due to pressure from above. Like to flex their muscles and feel important Silly men in suits.
>>By a rose by any other (Wednesday, 11 Feb 2004 22:44)
Reginald
Start the ball rolling......... as an intelligence idiot I daren't I'll get laughed out of the place!
"Interesting point Reg, so watch it girls you could end up sitting on this one..."
Hmmm, that might need a little re-phrasing hahaha..
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 09:38)
Think pink petticoat brigade, dear Beth, poor Reginald has to muster strength and walk the Florked path of truth and trust - the coals red hot to test resolve. There is the bite, for will he survive and see the light or follow without question?
re re-phrase: enlightenment found within the verse "Little Robin Red breast" which has a lot to do with music box and thistle...
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 10:40)
I guess any one who wants to know the readily available nics for different intel dets need only surf the net or read "The Operators", but of course that won't give them individual departmental nics which are bandied around internally...The thing with fiction is poetic licence can play a huge part in the creation of nics within a book, and are then adopted by intelligence workers/operatives and in effect become public domain by default, internal nics still intact. Some would be unrepeatable in writing (public domain) without stars needed to tone down impact...
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 10:54)
Hi Devonwren - do you have to pay to acees this ?http://www.intelligenceonline.com/
Identification/p_identification.asp?rub=login
I wondered similar Reginald - e.g. in Dark Winter there's a mention of E4A as a branch of British Intelligence that deals with everything from terrorist surveillance to tracking down dodgy politicians (this is a mis quote from my browse in Tesco's pre Christmas).
I wondered similar about the references to box and the firm.
Welcome Reginald. I'm sure they will be genteel and gentle with you.
>>By Nomad (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 11:33)
And so once again we return to : can't believe anything you read...
Frustrating.
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 11:34)
Welcome Reginald...
No intelligence intel here. (any intelligence?...had to say that to save someone else the trouble...<looks right>)
>can't believe anything you read...
especially here...?
>>By bikergirl (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 11:55)
Be a devil Nomad, suck it 'n' see...
When it comes to tracking dodgy politicians, there's a well-known hangout in London, the one-word title escapes me but it has a lot to do with rumpy pumpy and subdued lighting....Of course my mind be on temporary hold!!
DW really hasn't drawn forth much excited chatter from ardent AM fans, has it? I know Beth wants more choclateand flower action and letting NS get his end away, but maybe AM gets more kick out of a hotdog on the run and a quick bite of choco bar, stick in hand as he steers into a handbrake turn....
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 15:15)
I'll just clarify, not chocolate and flowers, wouldn't suit him, but getting his end away, the poor guy deserves it ha ha. Look what sex has done for CR's ratings!! How many men go that many books without a look in?
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 16:42)
I did suck it and saw had to enter login and password - err stumped now. Looks teasing and elusive!
Will try again following original instructions.
Anyone think NS might be bent as a dog's back leg?
>>By Nomad (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 18:00)
Thinking bent on cross-over tracks, a funny little story came my way a long time ago, well several really, one about a young Lt in the Blues & Royals on ceremonial duty...Oh damn, it's not AM related, but I'd tell it to him for a book of his should he be writing one where the Household Cavalry are practising for trooping the colour, (a light-hearted funny sword story), the other involves tents in the desert and no women for hundreds of miles, and something about who can tell the difference between woman and man in certain circumstances!! Real barrack room stuff - a bit strong for here...
Bored as hell this afternoon I settled down with a book written by a bestselling author who lives in NYC, her line:
"the landrover (Land Rover) sped up the hill as fast as a sports car" - in the Yorkshire Dales at that!!.....Really? Even a turbo-charged lanny can't wack a sports car uphill, unless the sports car's big-end is on its last legs...
You know, if a writer has never experienced aspects of driving a Land Rover (110) then that person should go hire one, same goes for revealing the sensation of Porsche Boxter foot to the floor!!! Same goes for riding horses at break-neck speed....Write what you know because otherwise you can look a complete arsehole...
Anyone noticed glaring mistakes in AM books?
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 19:08)
BTW: the Dales were not covered in Snow and Ice as the fictional Land Rover stormed the Dales.
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 19:10)
not sure if this reached you, but when asked what was his most cherised innovation, the superhero answered " ...................."
who can fill in the blank?
>>By a rose by any other (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 21:04)
Pinocchio Syndrome!!
Sorry Rose, bit of a private joke really, but your question tipped the brink of tearful laughter...
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 22:26)
Q
>>By Reginald (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 22:27)
the answer was "cabin luggage with wheels"
interview in todays Independent newspaper. travel section
sounds a bit of a wimp to me
>>By a rose by any other (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 22:45)
Well many thanks to you all for your replies. I was a bit apprehensive regarding what you were all like but bugger me (metaphorically speaking, of course) your all OK.
Loads of women eh !......that's a bit of Corrr ! A bit of Ooooh-ah ! and a weee bit of scar-rey ! I'll be on my best behaviour.
Also thanks to Nomad.....tracking big cats !.......top man.
Your point on E4A of the British Intelligence is familiar to me but I would disagree that they chase dodgy politicians, though they should do. Actually E4A are from the E Department of the police Special Branch of the Police Service Northern Ireland (formerly RUC). Out of interest, it's basic structure is as follows :
E1 - Supplyimg of un-marked vehicles, communications security etc.
E2 - Intelligence in prisons etc.
E3 - Organising intelligence :
E3A - Republican intelligence
E3B - Loyalist intelligence
E3C - Extreme groups, such as animal rights etc.
E4 - Operations :
E4A - Close surveillance
E4B - Technical surveillance
E4C/4D - Photographic & video surveillance
Out of interest, to anyone, what are your views on the "moral for money" aspect of ex-SF individuals writing books. Regarding AM and CR, they certainly have not disclosed any sensitive information and personally I think they are OK blokes. However, the Regiment in which they served has a code of conduct for anonymity of all theatres of life in the Regiment. It's almost a tradition, let alone for obvious security reasons. I guess there are quite a few blokes at Credenhill who would love to meet and talk with AM and CR but won't because of the "banishment of barrack visits" that have been handed to them for writing their books.
Just a thought, take it easy,
>>By Reginald (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 22:51)
Oh Reg (for some reason I keep wanting to call you 'sir' - can't help it, it seems to belong to a name like Reginald) you mentioning all these E's (fanx) I just remembered I never got an answer to my question about the DF's
"What is a DF1 test, and what's the difference between DF1, DF2, DF3, DF4. Are there more DF's?"
I don't know why I never got an answer, because no one who might have known noticed or perhaps it's just a silly question.
About the "code of conduct for anonymity of all theatres of life"
I do remember 'people' saying that it's not really what they said, but they spoke too soon, they should have waited a lot longer.
Any comment on that?
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 12 Feb 2004 23:37)
Did anyone read this article? This is just a part of it, but thought it might be of interest to the Superhero's fans
Ratcliffe was present at the debriefings of both Ryan and McNab at Stirling Lines in Hereford. He said McNab mentioned firefights, but nothing on the scale of the epic battles in his book. Accepted military theory, he said, estimates it would take 1,250 men to take out 250 enemy. "I consider it unlikely that 250 of the enemy were killed and wounded by Bravo Two Zero," he says.
In The One That Got Away, Ryan tells of killing two Iraqis on his way to safety, but Ratcliffe (his real name) says: "In his debriefing [which was videotaped] Ryan made no mention of encountering any enemy troops during his epic trek to freedom.
"Yet in his book there are several accounts of contacts, and even a description of an incident when he was forced to kill an Iraqi sentry with a knife. If these incidents happened, then I personally find it difficult to believe that they could have slipped his mind during the debriefing." No one knows exactly what Coburn's book will say, but in court he said he was told after the war that officers had considered the men "expendable". That will embarrass the MoD, although it is difficult to escape Ratcliffe's assertion that the men were not rescued because McNab had taken them in the wrong direction. Coburn is expected to round on Ryan, who criticised Sgt Phillips' commitment and ability, thereby tearing the group further apart. Coburn, who was shot twice, was a close friend of Phillips and says he wants to restore his reputation. The New Zealand ruling may cancel out the SAS confidentiality clauses, introduced in 1997, clearing the way for a new raft of kill-and-tell thrillers.
In the final analysis, there must be a certain sadness that five men who survived such horrors now appear to loathe and mistrust one another so much, questioning each other's veracity and casting doubt on respective accounts. Further evidence, perhaps, that in war the first casualty is truth.
12 February 2004 18:07
>>By a rose by any other (Friday, 13 Feb 2004 00:12)
Welcome Reginald! Great to see you here.
>>By TabariGoddess (Friday, 13 Feb 2004 01:36)
Didn't see the article, but the Ratcliffe quotes are in his book EOTS, he also goes on to say that the stories are amazing enough as stand alone tales, without all the added glitz and heroics (not his words, they're mine!! I'm sure his would be more manly.) I agree with him.
There is one solution to end this argument once and for all, let's have a panorama special featuring those de-briefing tapes. I wonder if the MoD did sanction it whether we'd see certain injunctions being thrown in the way. Probably, because rumours sell books, and that as we'd all agree is the name of the game for all of them.
>>By Bethan (Friday, 13 Feb 2004 09:37)
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