Andy Mcnab
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Re: WHICH is why when Crisis Four comes out, I'm hoping...
Found this one (from long ago) - though let's have hope's up for CF:
"McNab contemptuously rejected a Hollywood proposal for a movie where the patrol (B20) bungled an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein and Mel Gibson rode to the rescue"
(I hope it was a joke!!)
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 15 Feb 2005 12:51)
I’ll put my two pence (or cents depending where you are) worth on Deep Black here a bit overdue admittedly. I really liked it! And after all I said about Dark Winter. I take my hat off to you Mr McNab the honesty and grimness was just what the Doctor ordered. Now there’s a sentence I never thought I’d write.
Bethan (skiving in work!!)
>>By B.A.B.E.S (Tuesday, 15 Feb 2005 14:56)
<<I don't see anything in either McNab or Ryans fiction or any of the non-fiction that says highly professional soldiers are there to take a bullet for anyone else.>>
Interesting question, Lisle.
I can't speak for the professionals who do this type of work (nobody can), but if I ever required the services of a close protection team, I doubt I could live with myself if one of them took a bullet for me that had my name on it. I think I'd rather take the bullet than the guilt I'd feel afterwards.
>>By Majorette (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 02:13)
I wouldn't feel guilty if a paid bodyguard took a bullet for me, I'd feel I'd made a much smarter career choice than the dead merc.
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 14:04)
Errr... wouldn't a smarter career choice be one where you weren't a target in the first place???
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 15:55)
"SAS may pay an £80,000 bonus to halt exodus to private firms"
15 February 2005, Daily Mail
"The SAS may be forced to offer its soldiers 'golden handcuff' deals
to stop an exodus to private security firms..."
Sorry I can't post the link but it's in AMFT @ Yahoo or Flork me for the full text.
Sounds almost as good as a book deal.
I'm with Majorette on the "taking a bullet" subject but then I'm a civvie and female. If I found myself a nice little earner project managing some telecomms contract in the new Vegas, why should anyone take a bullet for me? Wouldn't want or expect them to.
I suppose that's what I'm really trying to put my finger on, why did those two guys put themselves between the client and the bullet?
Can't see Stone doing that, too professional end emotionless. I think he'd put himself first. I mean he even killed the girl in Crisis Four (whereas Skellen hesitated and someone else had to do it). I guess that's why Stone is more realistic that Ryan's characters any of which would probably have dropped the SigSauer and whipped out his Milan...
>>By Lisle45 (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 16:30)
Hmm let me think Lisle, would I too be able to kill a female/woman/man if she/he just tried to kill me too ?? Duhu !! YES ! When push comes to shove and it is turning into a "you or me" there is no time to think, "erm.. what is this ? A woman? A man ? is she/he having a family ? Animal lover ? Perpose in life ? " Then kicks that instinct back into action, a primal urge to win and live .. NS seems to have that plenty. ( and so too his creator ??? )
>>By Ninjawoman (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 16:46)
So we agree on Stone then?
I'm firmly in the 'eveyone is equal' camp. Male or female, military or civvie hence my original question about what is the motivation for an ex-SAS turned BG guy putting his life second to that of the client. As you said, "... a primal urge to win and live..." so why volunteer as a human shield for any money?
Does taking the bullet and dying bestow some sort of coveted superhero status amongst ones comrades? Just a thought, but no, that's too far fetched isn't it?
>>By Lisle45 (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 17:51)
To lay down one's life...
"Don't be a fool and die for your country. Let the other sonofabitch die for his." [General G. C. Patton]
Certainly this thinking applies to any situation where protection is provided to safeguard the vulnerable. I seriously doubt that anyone who chooses to provide such services, be it in the military or the private sector, ever does so with the conscious intention of losing their lives. Their intention is to prevail and to ensure that those they are protecting survive. Training and experience make them realistic about the risks they undertake, but, more importantly, they are realistic in knowing what they can and will be able to do in a kill-or-be-killed situation. And I believe it is their ability to face that reality that distinguishes them as professionals.
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 19:06)
I would imagine that their action was not-so-much a sacrificial move ala kevin costner defending whats-her-name in "the bodyguard" (or Homer Simpson defending a melon in "The Simpsons" for that matter) as it was the two lads attempting to block the movements of their attacker`s vehicles and getting to a position where they could bring down an effective weight of fire. Brave and utterly professional but not banzai kamikaze. Private CP training in this country does not train you to throw your body in front of a bullet as, what that leaves you with, is a dead bodyguard and an assailant with plenty of bullets left to use on your soon-to-be-dead client. What is more effective is to move between your and client and his attacker, obstructing his field of fire whilst drawing your weapon yourself. Not quite the same as shouting NOOoooOOOOo whilst leaping like a salmon in front of him/her.The US secret service etc are of course different as, whilst one of them is getting filled full of rounds the rest of the knuckle dragging chumps are opening up in the general direction of the attacker, possibly hitting him with minimal collateral damage (jus` kidding they do a bang up job...reagan, kennedy[S] etc etc)
Witnesses have, in my experience, a habit of reporting what they think they saw means, rather than what simply happened. Or journalists extrapolate to get a better story.
Shitty way to die one way or the other though.
>>By docjay (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 21:18)
Sorry a-i-b didn`t read your text...just basically repeated what you said in a far less articulate and succink...sucsin,,,suksint........not as short.
>>By docjay (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 21:20)
and no, taking a bullet does not estow a superhero status amongst ones comrades...it gets you locker broken in to and all your stuff auctioned off!
Anthony Swofford in "Jarhead..." says something like "if you have been fired at but not returned fire you have not been in combat. The enemy have seen you first and you are now either lucky or dead."
As in war so in peace.
>>By docjay (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 21:24)
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Has any one looked at the ad`s on their flork page? I just clicked on Maj`s and there was a link to military kit. As I did so i was just thinking "I`ve got to get on with some work" then thought "wonder what mine says...."
Unbelievable.
>>By docjay (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 23:19)
Oh bugger it changes every time. THAT time it said "END PROCASTINATION NOW...PSYCHOLOGISTS TELL YOU HOW"
Terrifying.
>>By docjay (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 23:24)
Yeah, adaptive ads at its finest.
My profile page had ads for military kit?!?! Usually it's about sexual harrassment. (The men on this board must be complaining about me to mg. ;-)
The left sidebar of the Andy McNab page also has adaptive ads. Usually they are things related to Andy McNab books (Amazon.com, ebay, etc) but page 234 is unique in that all the ads were MMA and UFC related. Yeah! We bucked the system!
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 00:00)
Hmmmm interesting.
Porn porno`s pornography tits.....titistitstitstits pornoes pornography porn video`s bravo two zero porn. Lets see what that does...
Hold on to your knickers Lynn...;-)
>>By docjay (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 00:10)
So much for my image here ;-)
Nothing's really happening at the mo - maybe they think we are already educated enough
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 00:13)
you guys are baaaaad.
Docjay, get back to your studies, man, you're never gonna graduate at this rate.
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 00:14)
His study is medical? Then the human flesh is part of his study. Simple
Ran into this one thanx to B20 and tits (don't ask)
"not only the authors have pseudonyms, even the units i.e. FRU and 14 Int."
Not sure I've read that before
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 00:21)
Ok another one... seriously messed up this:
========100 reasons why is great to be a girl==========
(..)
81. We can read Jackie Collins, Peter Hoeg and Jane Austen all in oneweek without compromising our sexuality....
82. ....but we'll never have to read Bravo Two Zero by ex SAS bloke Andy McNab.
Well...........DUH !!!!!
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 00:28)
going back a few posts............
Bethan-
I liked Deep Black too, because it was darker and the humor was noticeably more grim. Nick Stone needed to go there, as a character, even though it made for a more tense and hollow-pit-in-the-stomach feeling. But I had a hard time buying the "motive" Stone had for taking the job. (Don't think I'm giving too much away with that, hence no spoiler formatting). Did you find his motivation convincing?
Or perhaps the stated reason for the trip was deliberately meant as a thin veil to his obvious need to just get away from it all and return to his roots, so to speak?
This has bothered me for some time now. Does anybody have any thoughts?
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 01:44)
Re: thin veil to his obvious need to just get away from it all and return to his roots
That's what I got from the book - though not sure I read that or just thought that from what I read. Stone has had an attitude in all his books like 'ok - the job stinks but I'm good at it, it's what I know, it's what I've always done' So maybe he only thought taking care of Kelly would be a change of focus on life, or he wanted to try, but finally returned (had to?) to 'what I'm good at and what I know and what I've always done' ???
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 09:47)
Maj, I think you are right on both counts, and Lynn too. Witnessing horrible crimes with a gun in your hands but being unable to react would certainly motivate most people, assuming that is what you take to be the first motive. Frankly, I was disappointed with much of the middle part of the book and at the time, had some doubts about the final scenes. However, I checked and found that the technology is feasible. so not bad overall. Just hope the next one pleases me more. About to plunge into the world of Richard Marcinko's novels, anyone else been there?
>>By camban (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 11:43)
I've read virtually all of Marcinko's novels--they're a bit macho/childish but nonetheless interesting in a "watching a train wreck" sort of way. I highly recommend Marcinko's autobiography, though, "Rogue Warrior." It covers SEAL ops in Vietnam as well as the founding of SEAL Team Six.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 14:59)
Warning---Non-Sequitur:
McNab always talks about how he loves Dickens, which is kind of, in my mind, like the metal guitarists who swear they worship Bach. It makes me wonder if McNab feels somehow inferior as a "genre" writer when compared to the "literary" types.
Will McNab one day grow old and wear the bottoms of his trousers rolled?
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 18 Feb 2005 08:43)
I thought deep black wasn't structured very well, and the ending just felt like a bit of action in the middle of the book than an ending.
Maj, I think his motive was fine, he just wanted to work to stop himself drowning in a world self pity. You know get out keep your eye on the ball and fight through, and by doing it he also got to kill two birds with one stone with realising his past.
>>By fony (Friday, 18 Feb 2005 10:57)
Heat (Two disc Special Edition)
This item will be released on February 22, 2005.
(..)
Over on DVD Two, the extras launch with a three-part documentary called The Making of Heat. Taken together, these run 59 minutes and five seconds. They present the usual mix of movie clips, archival materials, and interviews. Those present remarks from Mann, former Chicago police officer Chuck Adamson, author/Chicago historian Richard Lindberg, (...), technical weapons trainers Mick Gould
and Andy McNab, (...)
http://www.thehollywoodnews.com
/dvd/170202.php
>>By Lynn (Friday, 18 Feb 2005 23:29)
Am I the only one who's noticed how weird it is to see a "literary discussion" forum led in popularity by McNab and Chris Ryan? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're here, but I do feel guilty when I see a list that reads..."Andy McNab...Chris Ryan...Homer...Shakespeare..."
One thing writers like McNab and Ryan DON'T do is ask questions of ourselves...I shudder to think that that lack of human insight is the appeal.
I'm sorry, I've just been thinking about this a lot lately, and I've begun to question my own motives. To read for pure entertainment is fine, but we've all (some of us more than others) put a lot of energy into not only reading McNab but discussing his "works" like he's fucking Shakespeare.
I think there's a lot of macho posturing or dreaming among the male fans and a lot of fantasizing about that one violent guy who for some reason won't hit YOU among the women.
My intention isn't to insult everyone here, most of ya'll are my friends. It's MY motives I'm worried about. I could have made a Steinbeck website, and I didn't.
Sorry for the long, useless rant, my main point is--we talk a hell of a lot more about guns, martial arts, etc, than we do about writing here...Maybe "AM" shouldn't stand for "Andy McNab," but, rather, "Anything Macho."
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 19 Feb 2005 08:22)
My motives for being here are just entertainment Jon, I realise that for some it may seem like I'm (or maybe should say 'we') very serious but being Lynn in here has nothing to do with reality. I'm not Lynn, that's just a tiny part of me. Some play computer games, I play here. Real life is serious enough and I'm busy on more responsible fronts also. So I'm having some fun here. Nothing wrong with that imho.
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 19 Feb 2005 11:36)
I'd hope you're having fun here. I'm not here for my health.
My question pertained to WHY not only McNab's books, but, more to the point, anything remotely related to violence is considered "on topic" here. And no, I'm not judging anyone, my McNab-fanatic credentials are solid as hell, thanks, and I'll take any excuse to discuss the various ways of killing a man with a drinking straw and a gumball.
I'm merely pointing out that it's a bit weird. Sue me.
Gnothi seauton.
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 19 Feb 2005 13:17)
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