Andy Mcnab
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Intresting for a bunch of blokes that we are!!! Ok I'll speak for myself!!!
>>By Broker (Thursday, 17 Mar 2005 19:33)
>>Sad news<<
I cannot believe that someone had the gall to write that comment. And all because mention of those three letters typed into a search engine. Next-of-kin everywhere will be impressed with your thoroughness. In fact, I'm surprised we have not been given a reportage on Andrew Wragg.
Forgive my anger. By all means state the facts.
Just forget the trite comments.
>>By geist (Friday, 18 Mar 2005 11:26)
So how would you describe someones death? Happy news? I really don't think Lynns comment was trite, in addition the purpose of a discussion board is to discuss things. Not simply state facts.
>>By docjay (Friday, 18 Mar 2005 12:19)
Hello, Geist...
It's nice to know you're still following this board but if you have been, then I'm surprised that you would misunderstand the significance of the sad news about Lt Coll Richard van der Horst. After all, one of the things we've discussed so often is the dangers Special Forces are willing to face. That is exactly what the article reinforces -- the life-threatening dangers faced even when in training.
But even more surprising would be you not understanding why the very tragic situation of the Wragg family has not been raised here, especially since it is the same reason in both situations.
It is a matter of respect.
Please don't misunderstand me in this, tho -- it is not out of respect for Wragg himself or the decision he made. It is out of respect for all those serving and ex- who are impacted by the publicity surrounding the Wragg case. After all, every article loudly pronounces Wragg's SAS background -- and in my estimation, the media enjoys fostering a "guilt by association" attitude regarding his SAS involvement.
>>By am-i-binned (Friday, 18 Mar 2005 13:14)
Interesting comments all round about the levels of "restraint" SF guys should show in a blue.
Personally, if you decide you need to fight-fight all out. If you really feel as though you need to step up to physical force, you better use everything you've got, SF trained or not.
If you want a more in depth answer, flork me.
take care, speak soon
>>By Paul R (Friday, 18 Mar 2005 13:25)
No need to ask to 'forgive anger' Geist - if I offended you in any way I apologise. I thought to leave out any comment would be cold-hearted, to express any deep grief would be dramatic and therefore disrespectful to next of kin, to post the whole article is in violation of the rules and I didn't want people to read just a few lines, but the whole article. Anyway - I didn't just post it - I really did think of what was the best way to post. I'm sorry you think it was the wrong way.
>>By Lynn (Friday, 18 Mar 2005 15:52)
GEIST: Oh, wtf ever. CHILDREN, little, innocent, children, die every day, and we've got drama queens worrying about whether we're sensitive enough about spec ops deaths.
If someone had posted "sad news, an infant died" there'd be no comment, but of course since it was a grown man who knew the risks he was taking, we've gotta make sure to properly give him sainthood before we mention his untimely return to the temperature of his surroundings.
When my father died, the paper just said he'd died, they didn't bow down and offer everyone who knew him a blow job.
Grow up and suck it up, camo-groupies. Everyone suffers, and everyone dies. It's equally sad whether SAS, SBS, or some bloke crossing the street drunk dies.
I noticed "geist" didn't mention having a problem with the way the deaths of murdered children are insensitively reported, which makes sense. No attraction to murdered kids, right? They ain't cool and macho, hell, they're just kids.
I don't give a rat's ass if I offend you, everyone I know will ultimately die, and they're all just as special as your soldier boys, and they'll all be equally dead.
Don't bother flaming me--I check this board like once a week now, so I'll probably miss it. Futility's a bitch, ain't it?
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 00:26)
Oh, darn, forgot to add:
Happy, happy news--December's tsunami killed over 100,000 people. Thank God, none of 'em were special forces!
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 00:39)
Hi back Paul R,
> Personally, if you decide you need to fight-fight all out. If you really feel as though you need to step up to physical force, you better use everything you've got, SF trained or not.
Something like this? ;-)
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e
=karatechop.wmv
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 00:51)
Old news here but don't remember reading it, about Mars & Minerva yes, not about the minutes.
‘Top secret’ SAS records put up for auction on eBay
December 19, 2004
THE Ministry of Defence is investigating how secret minutes from an SAS meeting were offered for sale on eBay last week.
The minutes claimed to be a record of a sergeants’ mess meeting that has become famous among SAS enthusiasts because it was held in hostile Iraqi territory during the first Gulf war.
The three pages — advertised by someone using the identity sas3190 — appear to carry the signatures of General Norman Schwarzkopf, the allied commander during the war, and General Sir Peter de la Billière, who was in charge of the British forces.
Full article on:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article
/0,,2087-1409397,00.html
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 01:00)
Good grief, Jon!
Talk about needing to keep things in perspective...!?!
Okay, let's.... but NOT here.
Like it or not, our chosen theme here, in this place, is AM and Special Forces-related -- not global tragedies, not man's inhumanity, not why do bad things happen to good people, not the meaning of life, etc.
You are right, tho -- Futility IS a bitch -- as you've just demonstrated quite clearly in your posts.
>>By am-i-binned (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 13:53)
You mean I can't say AM is my meaning of life?
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 16:17)
I agree though that THAT would be sad news too ;-)
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 16:18)
If necessary I plea temporary insanity at the time of former 2 posts
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 19 Mar 2005 16:19)
totally off subject but i had to get it out.
wales win the granwales win the grandslamdslam,wales win the grandslam,wales win the grandslam,wales win the grandslam,wales win the grandslam,wales win the grandslam,wales win the grandslam,wales win the grandslam.
sorry again been waiting 27 years for that.
>>By fony (Sunday, 20 Mar 2005 04:45)
Okay, I wasn't gonna visit/post for a while, but, I'll congratulate those interested in the victory over the Irish.
>>By Just Jon (Sunday, 20 Mar 2005 05:48)
Time out folks !!!
...............anyone have a slug problem ?
I'm just a dumb soldier so I really can't see what all the fuss is about. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole-hill !
"Sad news " indeed it is sad news like any news of a death.................unless it's slugs of course !
What's the problem ? I would not call that statement trite in anyway, just saying how it is with any right-minded person being in full agreement. It's just all the more relevent here (though not more important than any other death - as we already know) because this is an AM and SF related board that's all. The death of my wife ( a long time ago) was very significant and important, but of no relevence in an AM board and I would clearly see the more important relevence of someone saying "sad news" about an SBS officer here on board without any problems at all. From people in the Armed Forces or not, we all here have the same interest in "the AM Board". It's why we are here in the first place. I personally think that what Lynn writes, she is never trite in any way.
Anyway, slugs..............
>>By Reginald (Sunday, 20 Mar 2005 14:50)
wow, thank you Reg ;-)
>>By Lynn (Sunday, 20 Mar 2005 17:40)
RC 614 Novel 4
by McNab, Andy
ISBN: 1856865878
Publication Date: 03 November 2005
Odd title ???
>>By Lynn (Monday, 21 Mar 2005 13:46)
brand: TEAC
model no. of remote control: RC-614
We're going back to where it all started? hehe
>>By Lynn (Monday, 21 Mar 2005 13:52)
hmmmmm, very intriguing Lynn...........
But you ignored all the other "RC 614" items out there in google land! Most notably......
75 Topps RC #614 Dyar Miller (Baltimore Orioles Baseball card)
RC 614 Something Beautiful, by Linda Light Strasheim with Evelyn Bence (Book on tape: Former Miss Kansas describes how her Christian faith sustains her, consigned to a wheelchair by multiple sclerosis.)
SafeOx RC 614 catalyst column (part of a chlorine dioxide generator)
Roadstar Autoraadio + kassett 2X7W ANALOOG (RC-614 GD) (Car radio system)
Small Dog Rainbow Creature RC-614 (Small rainbow dog creature)
Personally, my bet is that the title refers to the small rainbow dog creature, but who knows? ;-) :-P
>>By Majorette (Monday, 21 Mar 2005 14:28)
No flaming Just Jon because you got the point exactly. Even narrowing the search criteria down to specific mention of SAS/SBS means that in the history of this board there are deaths that weren't brought to attention here, despite there being news coverage of some. Why? Why start with this particular one to offer up comment? All I suggest is title of article and URL should suffice without comment.
Yes, I am aware this is a discussion board. But everyone that posts an opinion is entitled to their opinion as a matter of respect. However, I also think the man who has inspired such obsessive interest in the minutiae of all things Special Forces would like to you to remember the title of the board before it descends into a bloat bigger than a Microsoft installation.
>>By geist (Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 10:15)
WALES ARE GRAND SLAM WINNERS AGIAN ONLY TEAM TO WIN THE GRAND SLAM AND CHAMPIONSHIP AND TRIPLE CROWN IN THE PROFESSIONAL ERA, AND SINCE IT BECAME SIX NATIONS ......WHATS THAT MR BEST WE DONT PLAY PROPER RUGBY, OH LET ME SEE SOMETHING ABOUT WALES KICKING ENGLAND'S BACKSIDE ALL OVER THE FIELD.....AND AS FOR THE BRITISH LIONS THATS 15 WELSH JERSEYS AND THE REST IRISH AND SCOTTISH HAHAHAHAHA.
OOOPS CAP LOCK SORRY
Thats better, anyway RC mmm perhaps a sequal to remote control..... mmmm the plot thickens but like my girlfriends gravy on the sunday roast...
>>By f-trooper bri (Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 16:31)
Geist:
Re :the search criteria down to specific mention of SAS/SBS means that in the history of this board there are deaths that weren't brought to attention here, despite there being news coverage of some. Why?
a) you are (again) assuming I used a 'search engine' in this case
b) even I have some days 'off' so I may miss some of the news
c) there is no particular reason why some deaths were not covered - at least not that I know off
d) yes you are entitled to your opinion about this
e) that does not mean I have to agree
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 18:33)
Ah, hell, most of us here are decent folk, saddened by any death. I think that, since we're a group made up of (mainly) civvies, we need to tread carefully when it comes to talking about combat casualties. I don't know if I'm heartless or not, but I honestly am no more affected by the death of a soldier than the death of any other stranger, and I think I do respect the military.
My main "problem" (other than being half barking mad) is that I consider Andy McNab a writer, and only a writer, as he's no longer active-duty. Therefore, I find a lot of what's said here a bit weird since it relates only to the military and has nothing to do with McNab. I mean, he worked at Mickey D's, and yet we don't discuss the finer points of burger-flipping. I realize that his military career "defined" him, but, honestly, there's a lot of people who saw way more combat than McNab ever did, and yet they're known mainly for other accomplishments. Maybe my problem is that I don't think fighting and killing are the highest achievements a man can reach for.
I know I came across as a dick yet again, but I hope you all understand that I'd rather appear unsympathetic than phony, and to claim I'm personally affected by the death of someone I've never met or even heard of is kind of disingenuous, at least coming from my chilly little heart.
Alright, 'nuff said...Surf for World Peace.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 24 Mar 2005 06:50)
Just a quickie...............she cried...........no seriously.....
I agree with Jon boy when he states that there are other military personnel, many in fact, that have endured and seen far more hardships and combat than AM. But I think most of us here also know that. AM went through a lot while serving with RGJ but not taking anything away, no more than many other soldiers in the british army. His service at Hereford was in no doubt "a blinder" and his defining moment with Op. Granby, the Gulf War in 1991, certainly merited distinction. But we have to remember that what he and other members of B20 achieved and endured, however hard it was, on a scale of one to ten for overall distinction and hardship for the entire british army, he would probably score about six. I'm aware of some personnel in particular, that have said that they would have been quite happy to have swapped places with AM while he was in Iraqi captivity. This would have been deemed as a cosy number compared to their hardships. I have a number of blokes with me who joined over 25 years ago and saw intense service in the Falklands, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Northern Ireland - numerous times, have been shot, pow - to mention just a few and have been to Iraq more times than I can remember. Yet, no one knows about them, even while they are more highly decorated than AM. I'm not really an example but I joined in 1982 at sweet 18 and within a few months, was sailing off to the Falklands conflict. Done my head in, I can tell you, being so young. I've even had my wife killed by the IRA after being married for just 5 months. Don't suppose they will make a film about me.
Well, nuff said as Jon would say. I must stress that I am not going into one, in fact, I am having a good day. I take nothing away from AM and without doubt he was a fine soldier serving with distinction. I just wanted to spout a few words as I thought Jon made a very good point about other less known soldiers who have endured and achieved so much more. I guess it's like me. People (UK) often talk about Paras, Marines, SAS, SBS etc but I talk much more about the Royal Engineers (RE), Royal Electical & Mechanical Engineers (REME), Signals Corps etc. No military force, typical or Special Forces, could survive without them. In any conflict, we all would be totally lost without them. Unsung heroes................that what I call them !
Right, I reckon it's a bourbon tonight, beautiful evening !
Reg
>>By Reginald (Friday, 25 Mar 2005 18:59)
It's because of men like Reg that I refuse to cry crocodile tears. We never hear about most of the sacrifice and hardships, and, I, as a civvie, will never have to go through that. I'd rather be honest with these guys, they deserve that much. I say pay 'em more, for one thing, that'd probably be more appreciated than someone like me pretending to know what death really means.
On an unrelated note, word is that "Boy Soldier" is as cynical, if not more so, than McNab's other works, vis-a-vis governments and all. Bold, seeing as how it's aimed at teens. I say "Well done, Nabby."
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 25 Mar 2005 21:05)
"pay 'em more"..........................I wished !
>>By Reginald (Sunday, 27 Mar 2005 12:51)
OH SHEESH, check this out!!
Remember I posted this game site, some space game - they had a character called Andy Mcnab...
Now the Italians seem to think it's for real!!
http://www.zam.it/1.php?id_autore=51
Reg, good post.
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 29 Mar 2005 15:42)
But then.. my Italian is rusty
Anyone who can read it better than me, tell me if there's something there that indicates it's not AM's (real) picture??
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 29 Mar 2005 15:45)
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