Andy Mcnab
Forum
Pages: 1 ... 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 ... 297
I'll clean up after myself .. I pwomise !
>>By Ninjawoman (Saturday, 4 Sep 2004 15:44)
Good morning, JD...
Would you care to explain exactly what those "convergent opinions" were? -- not so necessarily for the ladies here but more for those of us here without access to the programs you saw...
>>By am-i-binned (Saturday, 4 Sep 2004 15:56)
No clue what you're talking about, JD. I took no pleasure in the unfolding events of the school siege in Beslan.
If you're looking for a point-counterpoint analysis of all the experts on TV, then you'd do better to address your comments to the gentlemen of this board. Most of them actually have military experience and could provide you with excellent discussion, I'm sure.
Welcome to the board.
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 4 Sep 2004 16:58)
"You hope his prediction of the same event occurring on british soil within 5 years dont come true."
Well if something along those lines does happen there should not nearly be as many casualties. We all know what happens when terrorists take hostages in britain, or at least six ex-members of the Democratic Revolutionary Movement for the Liberation of Arabistan do.
>>By Mickalos (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 00:03)
Anybody here ever read The Feather Men by Ranulph Fiennes? I haven't yet, but I came across the title a few days ago.
It's supposed to be non-fiction, but apparently the writing is so dramatic, it kinda makes you wonder.... Is it too fantastic to be true, or is it a textbook case of life being stranger than fiction?
I'd be interested to hear if it's worth a read. Thanks.
>>By Majorette (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 03:16)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
main.jhtml/?xml=/news/2004/09/05/
wosse205.xml&sSheet=/
news/2004/09/05/ixnewstop.html
"... Andy McNab, the former SAS soldier and author of Bravo Two Zero, agreed that mistakes had been made, but tempered his criticism.
'There were fundamental mistakes made but ultimately, with less than 30 per cent casualties, you are looking at a success, because the political objective is to rescue the hostages. Whether it was the soldiers immediately in that vicinity who started to return fire, or the ground commander who gave the order, doesn't really matter. You are looking at the point where all these people are potentially dead anyway. It's a case of making the best of a bad situation.
'We tend to forget the potential of these people because we've lived through a previous era, the hijacks and sieges of the 1970s and 1980s, the Iranian embassy siege, when it was like a video game in comparison. These people have mindsets that are different. There is so much commitment. There are women who are willing to kill themselves with explosives and kill children in the process.' ..."
>>By am-i-binned (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 05:58)
Hi all,
As said before, we are all aware of the events in Russia and such brutality and indoctrinated rage depicted by the captors on innocent children are obvious to everyone around the world the seriousness of global terrorism. People have different views on a terrorist situation, it's unfolding and indeed outcome, depending on the amount of actual experience they have had on counter-terrorist warfare. You will find that a typical civilian will often have considerable differences in opinion to that of what is being or has been undertaken by counter-terrorist units regarding a situation. If Russian SF units and their tactics are being criticised by some people then that is fair. However, one must remember that they are SF and like the majority of SF units around the world, they were not chosen for that role for a laugh. It was because they have that certain something and aptitude for special warfare. I have heard people criticise the Russian SF for their outcome but given the situation, any world SF unit would have done the same if children began to exit the school en masse with gunmen shooting them as they fled. People criticise them but they could not have done the job better themselves.
All said and done, though the Russian Federation have superb and highly trained SF, like many other nations they somewhat lack a unit that specialises indepth in counter-terrorist theatre warfare. Some of their units do but nothing to the extent as say the UK. 22SAS as we know have a CRW Wing where various squadrons rotate through to obtain constant CT training. Many blokes actually remain in the CRW Wing as a permanent fixture and specialise even further in CT warfare.
Standard procedure in the UK, however is different to Russia where usually, not always, but usually, the CRW's Special Projects Teams would intervene only if a person has been killed and the police constabulary residing over the region of incident chooses to hand the situation over to the military. Even then, the chief constable of police still has overall authority over the military and all their actions. If such an incident was to happen in the UK, like the one in Russia, technical support would be the key element that would place the CRW Wing over the personnel involved in Russia. Remote-control fibre-optic cameras is just one item that can make all the difference and I believe that tactically-placed SPT members around a school would at least have current intelligence on the position of many terrorist members prior to a tactical assault. Upon the death of the first victims, they would probably be on iminent standby with authority to go in. As many windows of the school were already smashed with openings for a man to enter silently withoput further smashing of glass or using frame charges, silenced firearms would be the usual course of procedure as a rapid room-clearing formula would be implemented. Inevitably there probably would be deaths of hostages given the situation but it is the lesser of two evils - a few innocent deaths or hundreds.
The incident in Russia will certainly force the government to rethink it's CT operations and training and maybe a dedicated CT unit will be established soley specialising in such operations and nothing else. With global terrorism, everyone must work together to fight this disease and today we are seeing nations begin to unite together to work together. Whatever happens, the Russian incident has nailed another tack into the global terrorist's coffin.
Terrorists should not be given what they have demanded - never. It will mean that some innocent lives will be lost but to give in to terrorism will only encourage further terrorists to implement an atrocity.
As to whether a similar incident will occur in the UK, it's a possibility and very easy to do. Without hindsight it is very difficult to see what will happen in the future - only speculate. We just have to hope that it does not happen but if it does...........deal with it rapidly and effectively, something in which the SAS's CRW Wing and SBS's M Squadron can do and has done for many years.
Cheers all,
Your Reg
>>By Reginald (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 15:38)
got to disagree with you there reg, if they were switched on, then they would have all avenues covered. once again they have done their usual of gung ho jump in and hope for the best, the spetznatz and whatever them guys actually were( personnaly i think they were a version of swat) fucked up "again" they will not learn from their mistakes because their masters will not let them.
In this particular situation (terrorists willing to kill kids) they should have reacted with a swift but forcefull plan, remember the people who did this have access to books like ones detailing the embassy siege so things must be off the cuff yet planned and followed to the T.
After this particular incident my hate towards the terrorist community, and whoever backs them is getting out of control, so personnaly i would like to see a goverment proposed plan to deal with it behind the scenes and kill them all. we are not dealing with rational people so why act like we are?.
the media has generated most of what the public knows so lets block it, and then when they have no meda coverage and we are dealing with them in the language they understand then perhaps they might rethink it and fuck off back to their caves or whatever.
>>By Nemesis2842004 (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 17:00)
The entire discussion who fucked up in what way is not a thing to deal with at this moment. As a parent I am shocked and hurt by the death of so many young children who got caught in a process they had nothing to do with. I can't help but cry if I see all the other family members crying and searching for their loved ones.
So please go on and be critical of what went wrong, just count me out.
>>By Ninjawoman (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 21:26)
sorry ninj, i guess men take a more aggresive response to it i know i do, i hate the fact that they involved innocent little kids. but then again the russians weren't to worried when they killed thousands of the chechnians women children and elderly. but thats no excuse for what they did, i just used this site to vent my anger slightly, i didn't bother posting when it was happening or after i was to mad.
so i'm sorry again to anyone who thinks regs post or mine was in bad taste.
>>By Nemesis2842004 (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 22:33)
SOSCN worldwide extremist-Muslim conspiracy?
I wouldnt say that mate.. these people are just fundamentalist nutters, i dont think its a detailed determined conspiracy....religion...great isnt it... cause of more deaths than by any natural means... i'm sure the muslim's god must be loving all this cos they seem so convinced that they are doing it in his name... and muslim people wonder why they are not the flavour of the month in the west's eyes.
>>By geo (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 23:01)
On the contrary, I think these things need to be analyzed with a fine-toothed comb. (Sorry Ninj... I'm a parent too and I also found the Beslan school siege sickening.) But I don't think it's callous or cold-hearted to study these events; I think it's prudent and necessary.
>>By Majorette (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 23:05)
SOCS:
AK 47 with a scope fitted to it? Yes, I would agree with that being a bit redundant and out of place. Are you sure it wasn't an SVD Dragunov or an AK 74 that you saw?
Although AK 74's are a bit more accurate than the 47's, a scope fitted to it is still a bit on the optimistic side.
And tiger stripe camos? How do you mean they didn't work in Vietnam? I really don't think it had a crucial influence on how the Russians performed anyway. They could've been wearing DPM's or Woodland camo patterns (which some of the civvie vigilantes did - the grey, white and black "street camo" version), and they still would've "dropped a bollock".
>>By ortlieb (Monday, 6 Sep 2004 03:12)
Ort, didn't mean camo affected their performance in that particular incident, just that it ain't the best in general. As far as Vietnam, that's just based on what I've heard from various sources, I of course don't actually know what I'm talking about (not that I let that stop me).
I, too, thought Dragunov at first, but pretty sure some of em were run-of-the-mill A.K.s. Didn't realize, however, that they had civvie vigilantes out there--that explains a lot of what I saw.
By the way, has anyone ever tried to find exact directions to Credenhill base with Google? Maybe I'm slow, but it sure as heck wasn't easy. Just wondered if it's something they try to keep semi-secret like they used to do with the Hereford location.
>>By Sick of Cute Screennames (Monday, 6 Sep 2004 04:10)
Rescue was a success
Analysis by ANDY McNAB
"IF you come out of a siege like the one in Beslan with less than a THIRD of the hostages dead, then you count it as a success.
That might sound blunt, but to those charged with ending the situation, anyone taken hostage is considered as good as dead.
Unfortunately, some hostages have to die to save the majority. If nothing is done, they ALL die.
My opinion is based on years of experience in hostage negotiations. And in this siege the special forces commander was put in a no-win situation.
He had to make a decision whether to use troops to minimise casualties or let the terrorists carry on shooting hostages.
He probably made the right decision. The mission is not to kill the terrorists — it’s to free the hostages.
The terrorists deliberately targeted children at a school because of the emotional effect they would have on politicians.
If I had been in charge, I would have done more to prevent the breakdown of the cordon around the school.
This resulted in scores of parents running towards the school when the first of the children started escaping — but they ran straight into the terrorists’ gunfire. That just created confusion and caused more casualties.
But we must avoid trying to say we would have handled things differently in Britain. A lot of kids were saved yesterday."
Source http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-
2004411014,00.html
>>By Lynn (Monday, 6 Sep 2004 11:05)
Thanks as always Lynn for the info--McNab's words above constitute the most intelligent analysis of that unfortunate incident I've come across yet.
>>By Sick of Cute Screennames (Monday, 6 Sep 2004 11:39)
On a related point to the recent hostage drama in Beslan:
I just saw a documentary about the hostage situation in the Moscow theatre in 2002 where Russian special forces used an unknown type of gas to immobilize the terrorists inside.
Unfortunately, 129 civilians died as a result. The documentary speculates on what type of gas they really used. Interesting stuff.
Seems to me that Ivan needs more training in CT warfare.... And I dare say that had it still been a Cold War, the Spetsnaz (or whoever is considered to their top SF unit at the moment) would've performed better in recent hostage-rescue incidents... (for those of you who know what BTR-80's, BMP 2's, BRDM 2's, T-72's, ZSU 23-4's etc. are you also know where the Russians' rubels went during the Cold War).
>>By ortlieb (Tuesday, 7 Sep 2004 00:53)
Uhm...I know what a T-72 is...
>>By Sick of Cute Screennames (Tuesday, 7 Sep 2004 20:10)
Sorry for going all techie on you, but those are various Russian military vehicles. The Soviet manufactured and produced 1000's of all sorts of vehicles from the 60's through the 80's.
They had literally 100's of different kinds of vehicles, aeroplanes, helicopters, ships etc. etc.
I spent 4 days of learning Russian weapons technology recognition in the army a few years ago. (monday through thursday, 40 new vehicles/helicopters/weapon systems each day, exam friday). And yes - I passed. :-)
For those of you who've read Ghost Force, you'll remember the author telling about SAS squads doing covert missions in the Soviet/neighbouring countries acquiring tech info on unknown manufactured vehicles. So, in theory - perhaps one of the artillery systems I had to memorize was known to NATO forces thanks to Ken Connor and his squaddies?
>>By ortlieb (Wednesday, 8 Sep 2004 01:38)
With today being International Literacy Day, it is appropriate to reintroduce two concepts slipping down the popularity scale in both authors' books examined here and the resultant posts. Those concepts are grammar and spelling. The books themselves warrant a little grammatical assistance, not to mention the perusal of a dictionary here and there. Subsequent posts in haste are often subject to a slip of the fingers error and grammatical correction falls by the wayside. Understandable in this instance, when enthusiasm or anger necessitate a rapid response. However, the illiterati continue to blatantly display their lack of respect for these strongholds of literacy. Yet, 201 pages later and the achievement cannot fail to be recognised. Whilst perusing not posting, the abbreviated form of the subject has been noted, AM being standard for the author. Recent tangential offerings and attentions suggest AM might be more suited to Any Military? Meanwhile, for those still loyal to the original cause, spare a thought for the lost souls languishing at http://de.gnooks.com/discussion/andy%20mcnab.html. Extend the campaign multilingually (I am sure someone is able).
>>By Ryan. (Wednesday, 8 Sep 2004 14:35)
The faint aroma of pedantry pervades, a martyr to his linguistic conundra, and German to boot? Surely not? Thing is mate, language evolves, just like most things (except bibles). I agree that the lack of grammatical eptitude is slightly irritating to those of a certain age, particularly the reluctance to use upper case letters. But, hey, the era of the texter is upon us. It is content that ultimately matters, not construction. Oops, a split infinitive there, and some colloquialisms, but they are in the dictionary now, so there.
Anyway, how can you have perused as you only joined today?
>>By camban (Wednesday, 8 Sep 2004 15:48)
What ?? The Spelling Police again ? Bugger ! Still didn't pay the ticket I got from the last time ...
zee yu in cort ?
>>By Ninjawoman (Wednesday, 8 Sep 2004 16:40)
mm, ok then..
I'd prefer to remain an amateur but if anyone at all is interested in perfection.. go to:
www.spellingpolice.com
Mind you..nothing as boring as perfection..
(or.. "Perfectionism is the enemy of creation.." ~John Updike)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 00:25)
Hi,all, it is I, Sick of Cute Screennames. I've elected to go with a simpler and much-less-cute name. Please Flork this name from now on so I don't have to check both. Thank you.
My McNab question for the day is as follows:
Does anyone know what, if any, languages (other than English) AM is fluent in? I apologize if this topic has already been covered, and I'm embarrassed in advance if he's covered this in his books. Thanks.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 06:44)
mmmm spelling pedantry...methinks someone should get a life......NO OFFINCE MATTTEY...ONLI KYDDINGE
>>By geo (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 08:48)
Just (?) Jon,
in January there was an interview with AM in the Guardian called "My favorite lesson". There he mentions:
"When I went into the SAS, we were taught languages. I did Spanish and Swahili."
It could be mentioned in the books too but I don't remember (really??? yes really, must be my aging) but maybe someone else can help you there ;o)
Interview: http://education.guardian.co.uk
/egweekly/story/0,5500,1116329,00.html
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 09:14)
Swahili ???
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 09:17)
Thanks, Lynn! I knew I could count on you! I guess AM put the swahili to work in the Okavango...Don't know what actual country they speak swahili in, just that it's somewhere in Africa.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 09:27)
Belated Happy 200!
Damn...missed the party....blame the florking limit (and my laziness in clearing it). More nonsense to follow.
So instead...Happy 6028th (message)
(mine...hope I did my calcs OK coz I fear there may be Maths Police out there somewhere too...)
>>By bikergirl (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 11:22)
B*gger!! and oops it was 6029 after all that!!
Can't expect more from me... after all "2 muppets voted top scientists"
Roll on 202...
>>By bikergirl (Thursday, 9 Sep 2004 11:34)
Pages: 1 ... 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 ... 297
The discussion board is currently closed.
|
DISCOVER NEW BOOKS