Andy Mcnab
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just a quick one.
>>By Nemesis2842004 (Wednesday, 25 Aug 2004 23:13)
Hey Nemesis..."wake up and smell the coffee"...... if you're talking about the coffee in Iraq, it smells like sand. I'd recommend waking up and drinking your coffee before the sand gets in your tin.
Just f#*king with you mate.
How are you guys? Nearly 200 pages hey? Not a bad effort.
take care, speak soon
>>By Paul R (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 04:41)
Paul!!! Nice to see you here :o)
Nearly 200, come a long way yes. Time flies when you're having fun, talk nice, create rubbish and fight the trolls ;o)
Since this is an AM board I thought it's time to mention him again cause I've found a nice quote:
"Andy McNab talks so fast that listening to him is like trying to read Playboy magazine with your wife turning the pages"
j/k
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 12:55)
Who the f#ck is this Paul R character????
Sounds like a wanker to me..... ;-)
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 14:59)
Hey Maj, don't mess around, tell us what you really think!!
All of that worthy military opinion in the last couple of pages makes an interesting comparison to the experiences of the Viet Nam vets. Though in a different theatre (is jungle warfare more or less stressful than desert warfare?) the human costs, physically and mentally, are yet to surface. The absurdity of such wars, and the damage done to all involved, is perfectly illustrated in the book 'Chickenhawk', a sobering read. (Thanks Nem)
>>By camban (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 15:24)
OH Lynn !! ROTFLMAO !!! The mental picture that woute is giving is .. is .. beyond words !! LMAO Delightfull after all this more .. "heavy"talk in the previous pages .. nonsens atlast !!
Thanks Lynn :-)
>>By Ninjawoman (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 16:01)
Call me obtuse, but is seems one of the major arguments against the war in Iraq, is that there are other totalitarian nations that are worse than Saddam Hussein’s. Just so I’m clear, more people will support the war if the US refuses to take any oil from Iraq and invades Africa and North Korea. It could happen, now if only Dubya can get re-elected.
Oh about friendly fire. It is a horrific shame. From another engineer I have heard that problem has become a primary focus. I guess quite a lot of resources will be attributed to it. A SEAL that was in Desert Storm told me friendly fire was his BIGGEST fear. They went out of their way to make sure that no Sierra Hotel pilots where going to be flying in the area or at least they knew the details of where they were. I wonder if lack of access to these “unofficial” communication lines was a major factor.
>>By BadTime (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 17:46)
Not a recent link but mind the last sentence:
"But there has been no mention of the efforts being undertaken to reduce the chances that US forces might kill other American or coalition military personnel by mistake, something the Pentagon calls called fratricide.
In fact a document obtained makes clear the military has no plans to bring up the sensitive subject of its own volition.
The document is an Army guidance paper for public affairs specialists. It orders them to adopt what is termed a "passive" posture on the issue, addressing friendly fire or fratricide questions only when asked.
It is, to be sure, an unpleasant subject, but it is one as old as warfare itself. "
As old as warfare itself, only solution seems to avoid war ;o)
http://www.iraqcrisisbulletin.com/archives
/031803/html/
pentagon_avoids_discussing_fri.html
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 18:26)
Lynn,
I only meant as a technology development, not a political one. I think most developers of weapons platforms were shocked by the number of friendlies killed. Politics makes no sense to me at all.
>>By BadTime (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 18:44)
"Politics makes no sense to me at all" - strong remark, so true ;o)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 19:19)
Hi all, quick question, hopefully one of ya'll can help. Are the mountains in which the "Fan Dance" takes place the BREACON Beacons or the BRECON Beacons? I've seen it spelled both ways, and I've also noticed there's a place near Hereford called Brecon, which makes it even more confusing. Could someone familiar with the area set me straight on this? Thanks.
>>By Sick of Cute Screennames (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 22:42)
SoCuteS,
http://www.breconbeacons.org/
;o)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 26 Aug 2004 22:58)
SoCutes,
Ah the brecon beacons my home.. us welsh have the greatest scenery in the world, and this is part of our landscape. Brecon is a great market town, its juts having its world famous jazz festival, well worth going to. The national park which makes up the brecon beacons is a wonderful place to visit and walk, having walked there most of my life, my late father and i would go hiking there... With the beautiful pen-y-ffan its a great place to have a holiday, and with the gower and the mumbles only a short drive away its a great place to visit. so from me a lil welsh boy to all my fellow welsh brothers and sisters i leave with the great words of Max, Oggy Oggy Oggy Oi Oi Oi......
>>By briwriter (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 01:58)
Majorette, "a wanker"? How should I reply to that one? hahahaha!
>>By Paul R (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 02:47)
Paul R-
<<How should I reply to that one?>>
I noticed you didn't deny it!
hahahaha... just kidding, big guy. Good to have you back.
>>By Majorette (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 03:12)
hi all, its been a while since i last posted a msg here,
dunno if da subjects still on polotics, and i dunno if any of u are under bushes thinggy. but i serriosly recomend 'farenhieght 9/11' its a FAB-YOU-LARSE film. well worth it.
>>By cavemole (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 15:05)
Thank you Lynn and Briwriter for answering my question re: the Brecon Beacons...If a Welshman says Brecon, I'd say the issue is settled. It's Brecon for me.
>>By Sick of Cute Screennames (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 15:23)
Hi ScCS and all fellow f-troop members,
So glad i could help, us welsh are a great bunch of people, and if you ever do decide to have a holiday then wales is a great place..I really hope the welsh tourits board is listening and that they will thank me for doing their job...
Ok well thanks for the letters, anyone been watching the programme on channel five sas greatest missions, the one on operation Nimrod, on wednesday and the storming of the embassy was good, but most of it can be seen on the much better bbc documentry that shows on the UK history channel from time to time.
well off to have a pastie for me lunch so in the words of Ken Dodd(tatty bye everybody tatty Bye) nThat will get all the americans on here thinking hahahahahaha.
>>By briwriter (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 15:47)
I've been away for a while.. so if this is old hat then I apologise...
from Lynn's post..
"A six-man SAS team, operating as part of an Anglo-US task force, was waiting to be resupplied by the helicopter during a sandstorm. The sergeant was sitting in a US Humvee military vehicle, radioing their position to the pilot. He sent a grid reference, with the message: "Do not land on the signal. This is my location."
In the confusion, the pilot landed on top of the Humvee"
MMMMM what didn't the pilot understand? does "Do not land on the signal. This is my location."... really mean..
"I'm a british knobber who doesn't know what hes talking about.. land where you like matey"
or maybe...
" you Pilots are so cool i'm not worthy enough to be in the same grid square as you please crush me like the insect that I truly am"
or even...
"I'm a congenital liar so take everything I say to be the exact opposite of the truth"... or maybe it meant..
DO NOT LAND ON THE SIGNAL THIS IS MY LOCATION !!!!!
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 14:00)
1. yes you can hide things in the desert... it's a damn sight trickier to hide sensitive items in the desert if you wish to be able to use them again when....the coast is clear so to speak..and if you are a meglomaniacal sort of guy like Maddas was wouldnt you rather use them than hide them if you thought you might be facing a date with a trapdoor and noose.....
2. technology and oil wells... I was on a course with a fusilier full screw who said he was in the second warrior to be toasted by the A10 pilot in GW part 1... it was a clear hot sunny day... no oil wells burning....no other vehicles for miles Iraqui or Coalition... big 3M flourescent orange panel on the roof and Inverted black V's on the side......got to be a BRDM then obviously..
3. (this is second hand information so I know that I'm treading on dangerous ground if it isn't actually 100% kosher) what about the Canadian troops chopped up by the pilot whilst they were using a bridge in afghanistan as a rifle range... he reported taking incoming fire from about 5000ft....mmmmm good rifles...apparently he was even told to reconfirm that he was recieving incoming before engaging.....
5... (there is no 4).. I know us brits have baffled you with squaddie speak but what does Dubya mean please Badtime..
thankyou.ciao
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 14:59)
Easy there Geo. ...
There was a sandstorm going on. That means lots of wind (probably upwards of 50 knots) and very little visibility. Add to that the fact that flying is not a precise excercise (something you should know as a pilot yourself) and you've got a recipe for disaster. I don't think it's fair to imply the pilot deliberately disregarded the coordinates, as your post suggests (or where you just being sarcastic?)
I think it's probably a safer assumption that the pilot didn't realize where the helo was setting down. I think it's also probably safe to assume that that flightcrew was devastated by the loss of life they inadvertently caused.
I'm not trying to give excuses for why this happened; I'm just saying that it is counterproductive to imply that the pilot was negligent in their duties out of some lack of respect for the signaller on the ground.
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 15:05)
No Maj I'm not implying that what he did was deliberate, i was being sarcastic to a degree.. and I do not doubt that the incident was upsetting for all to say the very least.
however blind flying is a BIG BIG part of military flying... I would assume that this was a nightstalker had he been resupplying a special ops patrol... and one would expect them to be the 'doggies swingers' at this sort of job... i also know that in poor weather once you are sure you know where the ground is then slam it in for a 'firm landing' so even had they realised in the final moments then there would have been precious little that could be done...
I feel that had the pilot felt any confusion then he should have checked and double-checked to eradicate that confusion... wherever possible.....
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 15:14)
<<I feel that had the pilot felt any confusion then he should have checked and double-checked to eradicate that confusion... wherever possible.....>>
Agreed. But I also think this probably goes back to the technology issue we discussed on the last page. Perhaps the flight instruments led the pilot to believe he was in a safe zone. Perhaps the pilot knew that in a sandstorm 25 yards off target might as well be 250 yards off target visibility-wise and tried to get as close to the humvee as possible. Perhaps the wind gusts were disruptive enough that he was in a safe zone and got blown onto the humvee at the last second....
I don't know, I didn't read the accident report. I DO find these events atrocious. I just don't think the best way to handle them is polarizing the issue with inflammatory remarks.
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 15:29)
Lighten up maj it was sarcastic humour I dont believe for one minute that the pilot deliberately ignored the signal..... and if you found my remarks immflamatory.... you wouldn't last 5 mins in the military... rip the piss out of everybody is the name of the game there... suppose some of its still stuck to this civvy
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 15:38)
Geo-
If I misinterpreted your humor, then I apologize. But, honestly, it's a little hard to pick out the humorous sarcasm from your other stuff. Plus, you had the misfortune of hitting on a topic near and dear to my heart. You see, I've spent the last five years of my life studying 'pilot' error.
I'll withdraw. And I'll also readjust my sarcasm threshold from now on to avoid any more misunderstandings with you.
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 16:42)
Ooops..... I see ........well I that case I apologise for making light of what is obviously a sensitive subject (hang on whilst I extract size 10's out of mouth).. I guess it is a bit near the knuckle for you sorry...
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 16:50)
To put a lighter note on it Maj ever hear about the british phantom that was lost a few (many) years ago due to a faulty jack plug in the navigators comms.
The pilot on reaching considerable altitude could not speak with his navigator..he just heard unintelligible mumblings... the navigator could not like wise communicate with his pilot and heard the same sort of mumblings.... the pilot thought the crew oxygen supply may be at fault and that the navigator was suffering from hypoxia so he put the aircraft into a dive to get below 10,000ft and lent forward to check (tap) the gauges and check the feed switches....
The navigator saw the pilot slump forward and obviously noted that the aircraft was in a dive... he thought that the pilot may be hypoxic so he undid his harness and reached forward to pull the pilot back into his seat properly.
The pilot felt the co-pilot grabbing him... definetly hypoxic he thought so he tried to shrug him off...the navigator noticed the pilot struggling against him.... definetly hypoxic he thought.. he couldn't fly the aircraft from the rear cockpit so he strapped himself in and used the bang seat ....
the pilot was so startled that he instinctively....used his bang seat.....
two parachutes..two bewildered aircrew safely floating earthwards... one perfectly serviceable Phantom......destroyed......
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 17:15)
So it's not just me being crap at math, Geo?!?
Hard way to learn that 2 + 2 does not always add up!
>>By am-i-binned (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 17:56)
<<To put a lighter note on it Maj>>
Dammit, Geo! This is exactly what I'm talking about! Why does everything have to be a joke with you??? There IS no lighter side when we're talking about.... Just kidding. hahahaha! Had you going there for a sec, didn't I? ;-)
Great example there..... no, I had never heard that one before. I'll have to add it to my collection. If you've got a link to an incident report, could you flork me?
Thanks.
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 18:07)
Maj
It was in a book on military air accidents... mainly about the RAF.... I havent got it any more but will see if I can get the title for you
and yes you got me going at first ...touche
>>By geo (Saturday, 28 Aug 2004 20:10)
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