Andy Mcnab
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After reading TOTGA Chris Ryan struck me as a bit of a Wanker (excuse my french), I wonder if he did it on purpose because non-of the other patrol member like him after slagging off vince phillips. What a sneaky geordie bugger
>>By Mickalos (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 15:53)
Mickey:
After publishing TOTGA in a second edition with a new section of forewords, the rage aimed at CR has calmed down considerably.
CR got even more flak over the movie-version of TOTGA, in which it turened that ITV f***ed him over in regards of backing out of their mutual agreement of CR apporoving everything that was supposed to be included (he mentions this is that foreword-part).
On a more general note about AM vs CR:
I think CR has received an unfair amount of flak in terms of being the "wanker" of that particular patrol. Yes, he was the youngest / less experienced member of the patrol at the time. But I think that a lot of people misinterpret the way the he wrote TOTGA. Looking aside the "who's to blame for the f***-up" aspect, I think CR comes across as an extremely switched-on individual who strives to do everything in a professional demeanour and one who wants to solve any task given to him to the best of his abilities.
I find it perfectly understandable that any frustration felt on his part during the B20-op would shine through when he wrote TOTGA. I also have a sneaking suspicion that AM is a type of individual who tends to let things go "the way the hen kicks" (Norwegian expression btw, sorry for any potential confusion), and leave things up to fate to decide. A bit of the"nah... it'll work out... you'll see"-attitude, which is very stark contrast to the "follow the SOP's until I die"-attitude that CR seems to have.
It's all a fine balance-act deciding when to slavishly follow SOP's and when to step a bit on the side of established SOP's, but personally I feel that CR comes across as the person with the most professional attitude of the two.
So there !
- ortie, the reconrat
>>By ortlieb (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 16:11)
And to quote our old mate Buddy/Devonwren "has it ever occurred to any of you that CR was suffering PTSD, and when in that frame of mind all sorts of things will out that are regretted later upon sane reflections?"
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 17:18)
For lynn : < to say the rise-fall-rise-fall of the Boobies from Pamela >
Something came up !!!
Got a job to do, see you all after Olympic Games !
Ooh and Btw no sign of B20 yet !!! Damn!
>>By spiketheprovo (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 20:03)
Take care, Spike. See you soon.
>>By Majorette (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 20:31)
Spikey, love to ask.. fear the answer ;o)
Have a good time, see you !
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 23:04)
Mickalos,
10 out of 10 for investigative skills, bit over the top mind.... what if you'ld seen what shreddies they were wearing under their combats?
Ortlieb you seem to have a very good insight into the two characters.I'll wager that when they both wrote their respective accounts of B20 they never thought that they would be analysed so much. As Micheal Asher says in his book maybe CR feels guilt over Vince's death because of his "follow the SOP's until I die"-attitude, after all AM broke hard routine in daylight at an LUP, to make a brew and thus stave off hypothermia, wheras CR didn't when laying up in the 'Tank berm'
and Lynn CR and PTSD! nah he's just a geordie wanker!!!.............only kidding
>>By geo (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 23:32)
Trident,
I was racking my brains to try and remember the 'JFP' and the 'PFJ' all i could remember, and still giggle at, is John Cleese's indignant 'F*ck off' a good piece of acting if ever there was one for such an oft used phrase. However how many still remember Wolfie(or Foxie) Smith and the TPF?
>>By geo (Tuesday, 10 Aug 2004 23:51)
Oh Lynn,
Don't forget "Flygirl" when doing remembernces!
>>By DTO (Wednesday, 11 Aug 2004 00:02)
to quote geo
"Mickalos,
10 out of 10 for investigative skills, bit over the top mind.... what if you'ld seen what shreddies they were wearing under their combats?"
lol. I wasn't looking for anything, taking the first letter from each line of b20 to find a secret message, or something wierd like that. I was using a picture of the b2z boys, that had afell out of an old copy of TOTGA, as a book mark. Finishing a chaper of soldier five, I picked up the picture and looked at it before putting it in the book and the sun was shining through it and I could see their faces.
So just to clarify, I'm not a crazed fanatic. : )
>>By Mickalos (Wednesday, 11 Aug 2004 14:40)
Don't worry Mickalos mate,
We didn't think you were a psychonutter....................just wondered thats all...
and any good proffesional soldier such as AM and company would be wearing regulation green teabag shreddies under their combats anyway.... QM's shreddies the finest choice for the lean, green fighting machine.
>>By geo (Wednesday, 11 Aug 2004 17:37)
Some of us have become interested in the NI situation through these books, and others. From just watching the carnage on TV news to gaining the inside story from some of the people involved on the ground has been an interesting journey, I found. If anyone wants to view the situation from the spooks perspective, try Black Operations Against the Real IRA. It tells the story of how RIRA arose from disagreements between factions of the PIRA following the Good Friday Agreement. Including the awful story of Omagh. It is interesting to see how the Garda, RUC, MI5, and the FBI worked with each other to piece together the guilt of the main players and bring them to justice, although there were fallings out along the way!
>>By camban (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 11:43)
geo:
> "Ortlieb you seem to have a very good insight into the two characters."
Am I detecting poorly camouflaged sarcasm?
Like most people, I haven't shared toothbrushes with either AM or CR, so I don't claim to have a very good insight with matters CR and/or AM-related.
With whatever is put to print in military-related books, I tend to look at it with military eyes... But hey -- that's just me.
>>By ortlieb (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 17:00)
Ohman, O....
I see absolutely no trace of sarcasm in Geo's comment -- especially because I agree with him completely! I think you are very insightful in your assessment of the differences between AM and CR. And, in fact, I'm embarrassed to admit that in all the time I've spent consumed with what I thought to be every angle and aspect, I never focussed at all on the aspect of following or breaking SOPs. So I thank you, and Geo, for a new perspective. Very satisfying and much appreciated. :o)
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 18:56)
Ortlieb,
There was no sarcasm intended, either poorly camouflaged or otherwise, and I'm glad that you haven't shared toothbrushes with the 'exalted ones' (that is sarcasm!!) cos it's most unhygenic.... I meant my words in sincerety...
AIB cheers....
>>By geo (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 20:08)
Geo... :o)
(btw... shreddies = skiddies = undies?)
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 20:24)
AIB:
shreddies =grollies = grundies = skiddies = undies....... correct!!
>>By geo (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 20:35)
Geo...
correct!! = VBG = very big grin!!
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 12 Aug 2004 20:40)
geo:
Allrity mate... That's a roger. :-)
Obviously, I need to re-tune my sarcasm-antennaes.
Applying dipole in the meantime.....
>>By ortlieb (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 02:58)
Dear geo,
"Shreddies" ...............I prefer camisoles myself, but I guess I won't go into that one eh !
>>By Reginald (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 15:11)
OH bugger, er, doesn't anyone else wear thongs then?
>>By camban (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 16:18)
Oh come on now Reg,
you cant beat QM's teabags... super strong supertight elastic waist, croth down by your knees for that.....erm extra freedom.... attractive green colour... practical Y front style..... permanent imprint of the string mesh on your bum....
and besides camisoles get caught in your combats zip...
>>By geo (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 16:19)
Thongs are totally impractical for the squaddie around town....come on now camban behave
>>By geo (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 16:21)
Who is Andy McNab lol? Why are people talking about thongs... and underwear? Does Andy McNab talk about thongs... and underwear? Is he "one of those" authors?? Or have I stumbled into a conversation which has kind of gone off on a tangent from Mr McNab? lol
>>By peachbeach (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 18:46)
You know, the U.S. Navy SEALS solved the age-old underwear dilemma years ago...They don't wear ANY.
>>By Sick of Cute Screennames (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 20:43)
Okay, SoCS, now that's just downright TMI! :o)
Ooops, peachbeach...
Looks like you've caught us with our pants... err... I mean... guard down. Normally we're much more on topic! (...aren't we, gentlemen?) ;o)
>>By am-i-binned (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 21:22)
<<You know, the U.S. Navy SEALS solved the age-old underwear dilemma years ago...They don't wear ANY.>>
That's because they got tired of having to replace them, all those women ripping them off.....
What? It's true!
>>By Majorette (Friday, 13 Aug 2004 22:51)
hmmm, bringing that conversation down again maj?
>>By Nemesis2842004 (Saturday, 14 Aug 2004 00:57)
ummm, no... I think Camban did that when he said, "doesn't anyone else wear thongs then?"
(shudder)
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 14 Aug 2004 01:32)
'That's because they got tired of having to replace them, all those women ripping them off'....
Probably didn't know which way round they were supposed to be worn..... either that or they were trying to impress Demi More...Hoo Ahh
>>By geo (Saturday, 14 Aug 2004 01:42)
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