Andy Mcnab
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Your average ghostwriter is usually retained (on the books) by literary agents for opportunistic openings, I am not, and the more bullshit that keeps doing the rounds the more tempted I am to help these guys and women tell their stories in complete confidence!!
>>By devonwren (Sunday, 2 May 2004 10:49)
Barkingbob,
Though I think not all you said should have been said on this board - I want you to know I do understand what you're saying. You will not have read through all of our 165 pages, so let me tell you that your words in similar ways have been expressed since early pages. I can imagine you've seen 'adoration' or 'worshipping' and SF guys being called 'hero's' here, but let me assure you that definitely the old guard is well aware of the dark side of these guys' jobs. (The news posters might or will, I don't know) In the same line I can say that AM's books are especially appealing because he has Nick Stone show us that he is NOT a hero, but scared, troubled, withdrawn... etc. And (psychologically explainable of course) THAT makes him our 'hero' - for daring to be vulnerable. Buddy/Devonwren's words, many others and your words too Bob DOES have (had) their effect on the subject ‘awareness’ for the many mental problems these guys are going through because of their jobs. You won't find that in all our posts because we also like to just talk and fool around. But we know Bob, we know. (However, I chose my own charities and I will keep buying the books.) When I started to read these books I could not have imagined what they would bring me and though we’ve been battered for calling these books ‘eye openers’ I’m not afraid to say that they have been in many ways, though the most important thing I’ve learned is actually that I know far too little. But I keep learning. I hope this will take away a little of your frustration.
>>By Lynn (Sunday, 2 May 2004 11:23)
Yes, i agree with Lynn!
>>By Ninjawoman (Sunday, 2 May 2004 12:32)
Very eloquent, Lynn. Thank you.
>>By am-i-binned (Sunday, 2 May 2004 13:45)
Ditto, Lynn.
>>By Majorette (Sunday, 2 May 2004 15:29)
Frustration?
Fortunately I can give Lynn the benefit of doubt in choosing wrong word to express her sentiments, (being Dutch) but cannot excuse those borne of English mother tongue (US English) for following suit...
I trust Barkingbob in no way thinks his efforts (in helping those he referred to) have been ineffectual or that he feels unfulfilled....I certainly don't feel my efforts during therapy sessions were wasted, and can't for the life of me see where "frustration" fits the bill...
However, I can see why "frustration" might be considered appropriate by posters (old & new) in context with belief that Barkingbob/others/DW are frustratedly unable to influence and impart viewpoint upon the old guard at gnooks...Though I think that would be a tad too blatantly obvious and the old guard would have more sense, I trust, because swings and roundabouts would inevitably drag up that god awful word Bias...
Lynn said: "When I started to read these books I could not have imagined what they would bring me and though we’ve been battered for calling these books ‘eye openers’ I’m not afraid to say that they have been in many ways, though the most important thing I’ve learned is actually that I know far too little."
In my opinion Lynn, there are things about these guys that were best kept under wraps (should never have been told)...I suppose, what I'd really like to know is, how you would all view a book written by someone like readit who's from a privileged background, never any worries in a financial sense, and basically an adrenalin junkie from the word go of fast bikes, racing cars, freefall, diving, skiiing...If it was dangerous he'd do it, still does...To write a book for him would be to waste moments of precious time living the kind of life AM depicts through Nick Stone, and maybe when readit finally has to slow down he'll put pen to paper and can honestly say he lived that kind of life....
>>By devonwren (Sunday, 2 May 2004 19:42)
<<I suppose, what I'd really like to know is, how you would all view a book written by someone like readit >>
Hell, I'd readit.
(sorry, couldn't resist)
>>By Majorette (Sunday, 2 May 2004 20:54)
Maybe we've readit and didn't know??
(couldn't either)
>>By Lynn (Sunday, 2 May 2004 21:22)
"can't for the life of me see where "frustration" fits the bill..."
Dev, with BB's frustration I wasn't referring to the help offered to those who need it, I was referring to the fact that BB seems frustrated that we (in his eyes) think hero's of the men that are in mental need because of their difficult jobs.
I think the others "born of English mother tongue (US English)" got that at first read.
>>By Lynn (Sunday, 2 May 2004 21:27)
The Minister of Finance was reading some of the replies to my last post, both here and private ones sent (and I dont reply to those), and she came up with a great idea for a competition for the AM experts....... who can work out which Nick Stone books are written by a female ghost writer? There is a very talented, and unscrupulous woman in Lucas' stable of ghost writers, so that is the challenge, which NS book is she responsible for?
The prize, knowing that you can spot a woman writing as a man and the congratulations of all those on the AM board.
>>By barkingbob (Monday, 3 May 2004 04:02)
I know there are those on this board who lean towards AM and ghostwriters... I don't happen to be one of them. :-)
However, in the spirit of the previous post and competition, I will suspend my skepticism and guess CF. That would explain Sarah being such a total "female wanker" (I'm sure there's a good word for that, but I'm really tired and can't think of one :-p ) and tying Nick in knots through the ENTIRE book. I'm the biggest Pollyanna this side of the Pond and even I could see she deserved a .45 to the brain by page 13! So that's my final answer-- CF.
>>By Dare (Monday, 3 May 2004 06:02)
Dare, I Tend to agree with BB re the ghostwriter, what gells to strengthen this 'idea' is the copyright information in each book, outlining that in accordance to law X Y Z the book can be 'copyright' to the author 'Andy McNab'. (books are all at home so can't copy the exact wording)
Anyway, my guess would be last light.
This is where NS seems to show more of his 'compassion' for the people in his job. This seems to fit the Dark Winter book also, Liberation day does fit the character NS becomes in both LL and DW. So they are my guesses.
>>By srowlandson (Monday, 3 May 2004 06:40)
Sigh... no matter how many pages we write, some people just don't get it.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 08:22)
Okay, Barkingbob, you asked so I'll bite...
<< The Minister of Finance was reading some of the replies to my last post, both here and private ones sent (and I dont reply to those), ... >>
Would you please explain how the Minister of Finance fits into this little picture? The AM board I can understand you sharing, but you've got me wondering -- is it your usual custom to share private correspondence? Is there some ethical rationalization that makes correspondence less private if you haven't replied to the sender?
<< The prize, knowing that you can spot a woman writing as a man and the congratulations of all those on the AM board. >>
And exactly who is going to provide the TRUE answers to this intriguing ghostwriting challenge, Barkingbob? You? The Minister of Finance, maybe? Oh, or will it be the very talented and unscrupulous woman ghostwriter?
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 3 May 2004 08:23)
Oh you're so sceptical AIB !!! Shame on you!
Would you not believe Bob on his .....barking eyes?? And politicians, sheesh... ALWAYS believe them on their word!!
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 08:37)
Cracking punch line, Lynn, for a person whose English is second language: "I think the others "born of English mother tongue (US English)" got that at first read."
Re your enlightenment (dumber boarders): "referring to the fact that BB seems frustrated that we (in his eyes) think hero's of the men that are in mental need because of their difficult jobs. "
For those who are a little beyond basic English I discreetly said with play on words, (English mother tonguers unable to grasp discretionary post) "Frustration" is better applied to the men in mental need, as in frustation with inability to express feelings! I wouldn't say Barkingbob has difficulty expressing himself!
Sorry, AIB: "is it your usual custom to share private correspondence?", you know the answer to that one without asking!! Yes it happens, I still have proof of replies sent in answer to messages and to wrong person = someone else knew something they couldn't have unless another person had been less than discreet. Copy-pasting and forwarding does have its pitfalls let alone the act of sharing info behind the scenes: which I for one opted out of on the basis that anything said in private is not for passing on to favoured friends within a social circle by third party. If it can't be said in public, tough!
I thought one of the ghostwriters (pals) had already graced us with her presence, only she got her knickers in a bit of a twist when she was twigged - quite common when confronted by flork and your knickers fall to your feet and trip you up in your running shoes...
Does AM really have a ghostwriter? Would vanity let him hand over the reins? Women, though, do impact upon him, which is only natural given his start in life. Does not each woman killed off in a book represent another chapter in his life - failed relationship? As to change in style of writing, life itself can have effect upon that (editors/wives/girlfriend input), and if that is the cause of lack of humour in LL/LD then maybe BB did hit on a nail that isn't quite securely hammered down...
>>By devonwren (Monday, 3 May 2004 09:41)
Clarity!
Re relationship...as in generalised terms inclusive acquaintances, same way every one here has connection/relationship with chosen boarders on private footing, even relationship in mental terms (fantasy)...
>>By devonwren (Monday, 3 May 2004 09:52)
Wow, 166 pages so far, and some of them are actually about AM, and his books...............;-)
I have found some of the "gossip" here interesting insights into people here who obviously have to much time on their hands to be talking conspiracy theories about an author who is considered ficticious because of his previous employment, and then able to generalise about the whole SF, the army, and trends on who/what/when/where/how.....
I guess I just havent forgotten I got the books for entertainment, and entertain they did, but then I dont worry if an egg I buy comes from a free range chook, or a battery hen, and I dont know if my timber furniture comes from an old growth forest or recycled timber, and Ive certainly never wondered what the crocodile endured before it became my wifes handbag, or what the cow went trough before it became shoes, or what that has done to the rest of the cows, and wether leather producing cows kick other cows more than dairy cows....... but I know I found the books entertaining reading ;-)
I would pluck DW as the book a ghost writer may of attempted though, as I found the style, methods, procedures to be different, and not as well planned or spelled out as previous books.
And srowlandson, I have to agree on FIREWALL being my favorite book to date, being in a different area, with a twist, and even another less meaningful, but slightly humourous last page "if I ever catch that......" twist as well.
I do have a beef with AM though, and that is that he has ruined my ability to read Mr Archer, Mr Clancy, and after reading AM, I couldnt finish another CR book.....and as for "the real B2O" some [and I mean some] credibility could of been given to what is called "the REAL B20" if it had told its version without relying on pointing out details of the other 2 books as it went.........
Heres hoping last years dark winter is left behind [I thought it was good, just not "as good"], and some more AM reading is coming out soon.
There we go, my 166 pages, summed in one post from my perspective.....8-)))))
>>By Head Shed (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:03)
LOL, Dare...CF?
Judging female input on this board, would a female ghostwriter kill off the female lead?
Would a female writer have killed off female (you know who) in DW?
Maybe, if she felt threatened by a real life you know who = shared love factor (would have to be incredibly selfish or insecure individual)... Me thinks security in relationship with AM would be thin ice in a mental sense given his track record on women...Tell you what, though, wagging tails and all that, it's not so difficult to teach an old dog new tricks to keep him amused!
>>By devonwren (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:10)
Hey, nice to meet another with time on his hands!
Archer, who read that lying, deceitful gits handywork other than lying deceitful gits? (ex politician, ex con, ex kerb-crawler)
>>By devonwren (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:17)
Umm, Head Shed, should have said time on Her hands...
>>By devonwren (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:19)
Jiffer, time for them th'r Marigolds!
>>By devonwren (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:21)
Hi Head Shed,
Nice post.. but eeeeeerrr........ I can't resist, sorry :o)
"I have found some of the "gossip" here interesting insights into people here who obviously have to much time on their hands to be talking..."
And you had obviously too much time on your hands to read through 166 pages??? LOL - that is called 'hooked' so welcome to the club mate ;o))
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:36)
Thanks Lynn,
Did I say I "read" 166 pages?? 8-)
And surely one post out of 166 pages doesnt mean Im wasting time....does it? :@)
And his/her, if thats all we could find to point out, from my post, Im happy with that ;-)
>>By Head Shed (Monday, 3 May 2004 10:52)
Haha, nooo - you didn't say you've read them all, but to be calling your post 'putting your 166 pages into one' comparing them to ours - you must know what's in our 166 pages, neh?
Sooo... I've lost my job, got time on my hands. What's your 'excuse' for being here? ;o)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 11:05)
OOH speaking of which..... Andy - I'm available... typing, coffee making whatever - us Dutch are very good in PA work (LOL)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 11:07)
Oh PS Head Shed, I did NOT expect you to have read through all those pages, heavens no - if you'd do that before posting AM's books have become obsoleted :o))
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 11:18)
Wow.... 3 replies to my post, or was that one to my post, and 2 to yourself....;-)
I found the place with a net search, and had the link sent to me again recently by someone here, who I put onto AM's books, I think.
So I have seen the place climb from about 15 pages when I first saw it, but the last 50 odd pages I didnt see until recently.
Trying to get into a Lee Child book at the moment, while I wait for soldier 5 to make its way to my bookshop, and AM's next one, but I find Im running out of good books to read, while reading 4-5 a month.
Thought some feedback from gnooks might help source some interesting reading.
>>By Head Shed (Monday, 3 May 2004 11:26)
Interesting, Srowlandson...
Your comment << ...the copyright information in each book, outlining that in accordance to law X Y Z... >> sent me off on some interesting research. :o)
While wording varies book to book, author to author, it seems that the notation is saying that the author asserts his/her rights in accordance with sections 77 and 78 of the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 (UK, not US) to the characters, story, etc., including if written under pseudonyms. Others with this notation include Chris Ryan, Mike Curtis, Ken Connors, Frank Collins, Peter Ratcliffe, Tom Read (Charles Bruce), John Nichols and John Peters.
"(8) If the author or director in asserting his right to be identified specifies a pseudonym, initials or some other particular form of identification, that form shall be used; otherwise any reasonable form of identification may be used."
www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/
Ukpga_19880048_en_5.htm#mdiv77
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 3 May 2004 11:36)
2 for you, 1 for eerr... fun :o) But if you were wondering how we got to the 166 pages...there's one of the reasons hehe.
Oh, you'll definitely get some feedback on books - it would help though if you could inform us which you've read so far - AM and other SAS/SBS authors.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 3 May 2004 11:37)
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