Andy Mcnab
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>>By Lynn (Thursday, 29 Apr 2004 21:33)
I haven't been chiming in because, frankly, what more is there to say? The horse is dead, is it not? AM is either an opportunistic a**hole, or he's not. Ninjawoman captured my thoughts quite well: "I like his books. I like Nick Stone." 'Nuff said.
Barking, I doubt you will win any friends with the AM in drag comment, but I have to admit it gave me a chuckle... and I suspect you're not here to win friends anyway....
And, all differences aside, Barking, I applaud the work you do with army wives and families. Obviously you provide a much-needed and oft-neglected service. Thank you.
>>By Jiffer (Thursday, 29 Apr 2004 21:37)
Well Jiffer, I do have one thing to add. With all the disappearing Andy McNab related sites - I'm sometimes amazed and definitely grateful this site still exists. And as long as it does we'll be here. And the "barkingbobs" will be here. Yin and Yang - just like real life ;o)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 29 Apr 2004 22:46)
Am I Binned:
I have read the following (not in order though)
Andy Mcnab:
Bravo Two Zero
Immediate Action
Remote Control
Crisis Four
Firewall
Last Light
Liberation day
Dark Winter
Chris Ryan, The one that got away
Michael Asher, The Real Bravo Two Zero
Mike Coburn, Soldier Five
SAS Biographies
Peter Ratcliffe, Eye of the Storm
Tony Geraghty, Who Dares Wins
Ken Conner, Ghost Force
Well, I am 2/3 of the way through Soldier five after 3 nights but it will be finished tonight. It is actually a fantastic book i think, the best of the 3 b20 I have read so far.
I found Firewall and Crisis four my favourite Stone books, thought immediate Action was superb, and Eye of the Storm was a great overview of all SAS gulf operations and gave a good insight to the underlying issues of the SAS during this period. Ghost Force was a great overview as to early SAS History and how the unit has evolved to what it is today.
I picked up Storm Commend by DLB yesterday and will start on it over the weekend. and yes... been lurking here for many months... just don't want to get involved in all the drivel. Who cares if the man known as Andy Mcnab is a prick, or if he gets help writing the books, what matters is the books are are a good read. I generally can't put them down once i begin, and think they are a great read.
I also beleive about 10% of what i read on the net, as you can never beleive it unless someone supplies tangible sources oh who when where why. So take what people say with a rain of salt.
Enough chatter, back to work I go...
Oh, I live in Melb, Australia Although was born and lived in the UK many moons ago...
>>By srowlandson (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 00:09)
Lynn: No, no, no -- I didn't mean there's nothing more to say EVER! Quite the contrary! There's plenty of meat still on the bone.... I respect the yin and yang... and I am enlightened and entertained daily by this site.... There just seemed to be a mouthful of the same sentiments over and over -- chewing off the same ol' flank and it's getting a bit tough, that's all.... [crawling back into hidey-hole... apparently hungry....]
>>By Jiffer (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 00:38)
Total agreement, srowland, especially about that 10%. And don't worry about bb, Ninjawoman. Maybe the terrible disappointment of our not taking his comments for gospel resulted in that comment. ;-)
And I'm sure you look MUCH better in a dress than Andy does! ;-D
>>By Dare (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 06:45)
For those of you who are interested in Mike Coburn's Soldier Five, have a look at www.soldierfive.com.
Very innovative!!
>>By PAULL (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 07:28)
Wow, a flipbook. Indeed very nice PAULL
>>By Lynn (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 08:20)
Orty,
Gaz Hunter, son of an ex SAS officer who knew the score long before he did the fan-dance. A young man who quit and rejoined the Reg. Apparently, (hearsay from third-party) Hunter has an interesting slant upon the B20 mission had he been given the leadership And no, I haven't read his book/s!
Mike Curtis, ex Para same as Peter Ratcliffe (SAS RSM at time of B20). Curtis served with 2 Para during the Falklands War, later with the SAS . (think I've mentioned before personal reasons for sense of affinity with the Parachute Regiment, and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out). And no, I have not read book/s by Mike Curtis.
Reminder: I haven't read B20/TOTGA/S5...
I'll leave Readit to fill in on Cameron Spence, when he's got time - too busy in DC at the moment. After all, they have a close affinity = ex SBS...
Though it's fair to say, all those who've put pen to paper (fingers to keyboard/voice to tape) are not that shy in coming forth on their bios...
Love Jiffer's reply to Lynn: "same sentiments over and over -- chewing off the same ol' flank and it's getting a bit tough, that's all"
Well, poor ole Andy himself is getting bit long in the teeth! After all, it's the marrow from the "bone" that gives nourishment to the boarders now - the getting in deep and dirty , not something SAS men are afraid of unlike some of the more weak-stomach'd boarders around here...Everything AM has spun and spun to the topmost thread of this web and where's to go until next book (?) except round and round again to all points of discussion...
>>By devonwren (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 09:58)
Jiffer, (putting my Marigolds to oneside), sorry but every time I see your nic it reminds me of Jif cleaner (now internationally known as Cif) - the stuff you smarm on to remove the toughest of stains... ;-)
A lawyer profile. Oooweee - figures... Yee Gods, B.A.B.E.S have been slow on the uptake - script zooming through my mind as I key this...
AM's affinity with Marigolds, gold hotpants, and a lawyer!
>>By devonwren (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 10:16)
Thank you Dare! And yes, i do ;)
>>By Ninjawoman (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 10:20)
Here's an internet site where you can find all the latest SAS-news, maybe this is old but hey I'm getting older too and my brain-neurons aren't what they used to be.
www.geocities.com/sascentre/
There's a lot of stuff, also about AM and MC, video's etc....
And now for a laugh :
Actual Military Performance Appraisals
Got into the gene pool while the lifeguard wasn't watching.
A room temperature IQ.
Got a full 6-pack, but lacks the plastic thingy to hold it all together.
A gross ignoramus -- 144 times worse than an ordinary ignoramus.
A photographic memory but with the lens cover glued on.
Bright as Alaska in December.
Gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn't coming.
He's so dense, light bends around him.
If he were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered twice a week.
It's hard to believe that he beat 1,000,000 other sperm.
Takes him 2 hours to watch 60 minutes.
Wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
>>By borisette (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 12:51)
One thing strikes me as very odd, given Nick Stone's background:
Why does he always kit up in a pair of jeans and short Timberlands and a flimsy jacket when he's operating in "outdoors"-environments?
I'm referring especially to Crisis Four (OP stakeout) and Firewall (heading towards, and operating in- Tallinn).
I'm aware of the "non-conspicious appearance" factor, but he'd still manage to keep that factor protected by wearing a Gore-Tex jacket, above-ancle-height boots and cotton pants. And wearing a T-shirt underneath??
A wet cotton T-shirt is a shortcut to hypothermia in the right (or wrong - depends on how you look at it) conditions.
>>By ortlieb (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 14:16)
LOL bo! Good appraisals!
NW-- You're welcome! :-)
Ortie-- I remember mentions of Goretex somewhere, but don't remember when and where. The Timberlands might just be a question of product placement-- but yeah, it must have gotten REALLY cold for poor Nick and Tom in Firewall. ;-)
>>By Dare (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 14:38)
Borisette (Bo Bo), oh Gee, got a laugh out of: "Wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead."
Actually, Freddie is still alive and kicking, as Hoarworthy would confirm if he was brave enough...
>>By devonwren (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 16:43)
DW: >A lawyer profile
==A bit of clarification: I'm not actually a lawyer, but I do work in the legal field and very closely with lawyers....
>every time I see your nic it reminds me of Jif cleaner
== Not being overly domestic, I've not heard of Jif/Cif.... In the States Jif is a brand of peanut butter... was hoping that would slip through the cracks (but then, I'm the one bringing it up :-)
>B.A.B.E.S have been slow on the uptake
== B.A.B.E.S. ??
Borisette: >And now for a laugh
== Oh yes, big laugh! Might have to steal some of those!
Re: Timberlands, et al.: I've been wondering about that myself. "Fitting in" factor aside, is there a noise factor in more appropriate outerwear? I don't seem to recall Nick mentioning anything about socks, either. I would think that would be an important piece of clothing in any climate, and also given AM's discussion of foot care in IA. It seems to me that when Nick does finally get some good outdoor kit, it's either quickly stolen or abandoned....
Reading Lib Day now and I'm definitely noticing a difference in the writing -- it's more polished and smooth, and more descriptive. I realize I'm possibly inciting a discussion about ghost writing -- not my intent (but feel free), just wondering if anyone else noticed that, too?
Y'all have a good one!
>>By Jiffer (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 16:53)
Hi Jiffer!
Yes there's been lots of discussion about the writing development. Some attribute it to ghost-writing, some attribute to the growth in craftsmanship, some probably think trained monkeys were involved... oh wait! I mentioned the ghost-writing thing already! Of course that could be an allusion to Andy's style. Not sure really. ;-)
I think it's more likely AM's development as a writer and perhaps a change in editorial staff at the publishing house. Hard to say, though.
>>BABES<<
You'd have to go back quite a few pages to find examples of their comedic stylings but it's fun stuff. :-)
>>By Dare (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 17:02)
Jiffer:
My sentiments exactly on Lib Day.... I noticed a difference as soon as I started the book. For me, the humor was the most obvious... it didn't have the same coarse quality that the earlier ones did.
BTW, looks like we have a few visitors to our neck of the woods these days... Hope they can take some time out from their busy schedules to enjoy the beautiful DC weather we'll be having this weekend.
And, actually, every time I read your nickname I think of that mop, The Swiffer.
BoBo:
"He's so dense, light bends around him." ohmigod, ROTFLMFAO
srowlandson:
I thought I was the only one who thought Firewall was the best of the bunch. Glad to see I'm not alone.
Ortie:
Never thought you'd be the one to complain about wet T-shirts. ;-)
>>By Majorette (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 17:12)
Don't let Nick Stone's dress sense drag (intentional use given suggestions of late...) you down!!
http://www.camouflageforbeginners.com
Reckon top right is covert pic of one of our lurkers...
And...SAS Dessert lives!!! Camouflage Cupcakes recipe link on same page. I thank you...
>>By bikergirl (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 18:45)
Oooh, what you've missed, Jiffer...
BABES made their official debut on pg 101, 7th post down. Well worth the trip, but stock up on BenGay first! And by the way, forget Peter Pan and Skippy; you are the only PB for my J! (vbg! vbw!)
ARGH, Maj!
Swiffers!!! Yet another incidious instrument designed to ensnare the unsuspecting in Martha's evil plot to promote domestic enslavement! (grrrrr!)
Uh-oh, Ortlieb...
Fashion Eye for the Frozen Guy? And while Timberlands might be NS speed, I couldn't get past AM's Hush Puppies in INK! LOL!
Freddie? (gasp!) Where?!?!?
Uhm, Hoarwithy, just where the hell did you go with that bus? Should we give up on that lift to Dean's? And advice please -- TZ or conspiracy? My brakes went yesterday, and now all my money has disappeared from my wallet! :o\
Good grief, Bikergirl!
Immediately after the camo-cupcakes, camo-toilet paper? At $7.95 for a single per roll, I'd say there are some serious economic advantages to clingfilm... (yuck!) LOL!
Hey, the following is not my fault! Bo started it!
(in random order and more F Troop than military...) :oP
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
There are two kinds of pedestrians: the quick and the dead.
Life is sexually transmitted.
An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.
If quitters never win, and winner's never quit, then who's the fool who said, "Quit while you're ahead?"
Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
I used to eat a lot of natural foods until I learned that most people die of natural causes.
The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.
Some people are like Slinkys... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing.
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism.
Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.
>>By am-i-binned (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 19:07)
"teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks"
.. so that's what happened to us ??? LOL
nice posts, from all of you troopers !!
>>By Lynn (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 19:33)
Oh, absolutely!
>>By am-i-binned (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 19:48)
ROFL! Those are great, AIB! My faves are the Slinky, health nuts dying of nothing, feel blue/breathe, and "give a person a fish..."
That last one should be flork/gnooks motto. :-)
>>By Dare (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 20:33)
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/
story/0,6903,915103,00.html
I expect most of you would have read this, but incase it passed some of you by.
>>By barkingbob (Saturday, 1 May 2004 17:23)
Thanks for the link, Barkingbob...
It's been a while since I read that but, quite personally, I never mind retracing my steps...
>>By am-i-binned (Saturday, 1 May 2004 17:54)
Treading well-worn paths is oh so common here, Am-I-Binned ;-)
BB's link: it's quite weird second time around, how the only one who sounds "fuelled by anger, bitterness and jealousy" is Lucas. Still, I don't suppose he and Ratcliffe would have hit it off... (I dare not repeat the image Lucas conjures!!!) What could have driven Lucas to pass such crass comment, to the effect that books "fuelled by anger, bitterness and jealousy" don't/wouldn't sell...Gosh, he must have choked on a few bones since that statement, seeing as most people who've rea B20 & TOTGA have also read Desert Storm...
ab initio: these words have reflected the private side of Andy McNab...
~
Sometimes I cry my heart to Sleep
Shuffling days and lonesome nights
Sometimes my courage fell to my feet (Bowie)
~
He's as good as said as much, often enough, even through the character of Nick Stone...
So why does Mark Lucas have to be so goddamn obnoxious, petty-minded, and blatantly objectionable about Ratcliffe and, the men who served in Afghanistan? Whether you like PR or not, he was by most accounts a damn good RSM in his time, but like school kids wacked by a master those who cop flak leave school forever hating/grudging a master who bettered them by design or default of rank...
>>By devonwren (Saturday, 1 May 2004 20:23)
[Majorette]
>Ortie:
>Never thought you'd be the one to complain about wet T-shirts. ;-)
== There are always exceptions to the rule. :)
[am-i-binned]
>Uh-oh, Ortlieb...
>Fashion Eye for the Frozen Guy?
== Indeed! Or rather: "if the frozen guy had paid more attention to approriate "fashion"-wear, he wouldn't be lying around, slacking about, stiff as a board, turning bright green.... and beginning to smell....."
[Jiffer]
>Re: Timberlands, et al.: I've been wondering about that myself. "Fitting in" factor aside, is there a noise factor in more >appropriate outerwear? I don't seem to recall Nick mentioning anything about socks, either. I would think that would be an >important piece of clothing in any climate, and also given AM's discussion of foot care in IA. It seems to me that when Nick >does finally get some good outdoor kit, it's either quickly stolen or abandoned....
==== I'd assume (immediately realizing that I'm contradicting my own favourite quote: "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!") that AM feels that NS wearing socks is something that "goes without saying".
Although - wearing the RIGHT kind is crucial. White tennis-type socks for example WON'T make for a happy day in the outback!
The noise-factor is a good point, and unfortunately Gore Tex makes a helluvalot of noise - especially in very cold weather. There are alternatives to Gore Tex clothing that is almost as waterproof, but doesn't make any noise at all (or at least very little, especially compared to Gore Tex).
Assuming the instructor role here for a second, I would like to point out that no matter what type of clothing one should choose to wear (for outdoor use, NS-style), the following capabilities should be ones to consider:
1. Insulation.
2. Ventilation.
3. Water-proof. (often, water-proof capabilites will automatically take care of point 4).
4. Wind-proof.
Rule of thumb: always think "layers" when kitting up. (what's closest to your skin --> what protects you from the elements).
And finally: often, it's "lo-tech" that does the job best: whool has the ability to stay insulate even when wet.
>>By ortlieb (Saturday, 1 May 2004 21:22)
ortlieb, thanks the kind of advice given to my kids by the teacher when they went on school skiing trips!! I guess English schools are very au fait with SF proceedures.
I know it is a bore, but the Lucas link just was to show the backstabbing going on, and how much the sketchy people like Lucas need vulnerable guys to keep paying for his various homes. He takes advantage of the weaknesses of SF guys, he knew how to push McN's buttons, the fact he was abandoned - wanting to prove himself a success, to his mother etc, Nish needed approval after his mental breakdown and Collins needed it to, read his family background, so give a guy like Collins, a priest etc a woman ghostwriter who is miserable in her home life and keen to meet a "real" man and see where it goes, Lucas is the brains behind it all, manipulating broken and bruised men for his own bank balance and ego. All the guys he chose were from deprived backgrounds, needing help etc.
I know you dont want to know about McN's ghostwriters, but he has a few, as you can tell from the different styles, but that is OK he wants to be rich and famous, who wouldn't with his background, not even his mother seemed to want him. Why has no one written a book about the backgrounds of these men, and why they did what they did,and all have lived to regret it, Bob Horsfall et al.
I think these men should be protected from themselves, I know they are seen as heros etc, but they are such desperate, broken men, still children in many way. I have read some of DW postings and I hope she can concur. I want to see these men given help not given "lucrative" contracts. Nish's death and that of Collins was so devastating - needless, and I hope Lucas and Liz Rigby can live with themselves, though I imagine now Liz has enough money to bail out her husbands failing business things are looking up.
sorry to rant, but it seems like fun and games to so many, but it is more life and death than Nick f***ing Stone etc. I have had too many 2am phone calls from battered wives and children, I want you to know that keeping the lie alive that these are macho men, in control and brave helps them to keep perpetuating the lies. These are sad F***ed up men, who deserve our pity not our adulation. If you are tempted to buy another book, send the money to a charity that helps the poor familes that these men leave by the wayside, instead. As I said, I apologise, but living in a tent for weeks on end, listening to another soldier asking for permission to go home because his wife says she is leaving him, gets to you after a while.
>>By barkingbob (Sunday, 2 May 2004 03:52)
What Lucas link do you mean, bb? Can't seem to find it in the last page or so of posts. Am I looking in the wrong spot?
>>By Dare (Sunday, 2 May 2004 06:23)
I concur with Barkingbob to a certain extent, at the same time I've always prided myself on modicum of integrity despite "buttons pushed" on more than one occasion here at gnooks. That said I had hoped Bowie's words reflected AM's persona, the one, perhaps, few notice. SF men in general are f*cked from the moment they are half way through selection, that's why many fail the course, some f*cked before they even go for it - tearaways from the rough streets of Glasgow, London etc., - and the men who've already passed through physicially/mentally intensive courses within their own regiments/squadrons such as Paras, Royal Marines et al, that isn't to say other regiments don't do freefall, parachute/diving training alongside courses on bomb disposal and explosive detonation procedures...
I can sympathise with Barkingbob, because when you become a confidante to anothers' secret confessions, anxieties etc., you are in a sense burdened with not only the secrets revealed, but also the secretive bond with which you are bound and gagged (effectively, if you have strong sense of integrity), this can also leave one with a slightly biased perspective, and that is hard to override with sense of neutrality...It is natural to be drawn to one side of any dispute, after all, you are in general only hearing one side of a story, and one liner attacks here at gnooks have been thrown at me often enough to challenge the most saintly of persons and I'm no saint any more than AM is...
However, I have endeavoured to remove the blinkers and rose-tinted specs for fans of AM et al to at least try and see the real people behind the myths, and to understand how their lives are not quite as rosy as one might expect despite fame and fortune, and maybe if you give thought to how many have committed or near committed suicide in differing ways you might give a thought to "who has really exploited who" on the book front...I guess the same old responses will erupt, and while you're responding another SF man will go down by his own hand, others clowning and shutting their ears to the monster knocking at their door...
>>By devonwren (Sunday, 2 May 2004 10:27)
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