Andy Mcnab
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Was second line of your post to validate claim to manhood or is you in wrong closet? I weren't brought up to talk dirty in the company of ladies. Have you heard the joke about Wanking Province China?
AIB. Matter of opinion. Call your puppy dogs off on florking ankle nippers or I might feel obliged to send full grown Dobi replies.
Alice. Keen on SAS books? Keep looking, keep reading, the information I have is out there. You will need to cross reference and change character names that's all and a lot of it is set out in fiction. Hey if I posted what you want here AIB would go apoplectic.
nice talking all. see ya sometime soon. The mountains gets my body and soul today.
>>By readit (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 11:07)
Hi all, just trawled through the last few pages.
Remember one thing - we're talking fiction here in terms of Andy's books, even B2Z is far from likelty to be fact. That means he can make up what he likes. Also he's no expert on the psychology of grief - who is really? So trying to say he got it wrong is like saying he should have known better. He shouldn't, his research is just shite and he's uninformed except within that which he was very professionally experienced. As to the face chewing - in IA he talks about the jap slap instructor saying if an 18 stone PIRA character was on top of him he would bite his nose off - could this be the source of the particular scenario and Am has just applied poetic licence - but in typical SAS terms he's gone for P for plenty ( and verged into the unrealistic? it does happen with fiction you know.
me? I take nothing seriously. That way I never get offended. Go on try. Words alone aimed at me mean nothing. bullets - that's another matter!
Personally I miss Buddy. She was always good for a laugh. She was good chain puller. I had my chain removed years ago.
I also enjoy the BABES sketches. The SAS BB sketch was class and as I said I'd pay good money for a What Not To Wear SAS special.
if Andy Mcnab is not savvy enough to realise that fame has a price then he shouldn't have started writing books and describing his experiences - isn't the SAS rules supposed to be complete non disclosure. he can't bend the rules then expect no implications. I also think he has a nice life and couldn't care less what appears on internet forums. he may not be happy, but then who is?
Piss taking is character building. I had the piss taking out me all my life so I know LOL.
Rule one, don't take posts to heart.
regards to all
>>By Nomad (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 11:08)
Majorette. Tracking down article McNab and the Cairn laid by B Squad. Was it the Telegraph? Can't remember offhand.
In case you haven't heard of it there's a Yahoo search facility. www.yahoo.com.
Gen up on tracking observation and then try for bodyguard position. First things first girl.
>>By readit (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 11:24)
Hello all
Have rang the BBC again this morning to check on when SAS Survival Secrets will be on again. They've told me Sun 25 January at 22.00hrs on BBC2. Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
>>By TabariGoddess (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 11:59)
Nomad
What not to wear is on Chris Ryan's board....
>>By Bethan (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 12:34)
Majorette
re. post on last page.
Don't know if you've seen "we were soldiers when we were young", it's the book the Mel Gibson film was based on, can't remember the author - very, very good. Also worth a look is Black Hawk Down, the book, much better than the film. There is one more I've read, but since it has been proved he lied and was never a vietnamese POW, I won't give him the air time here. Hope this helps!
>>By Bethan (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 13:41)
As for the vietnamese war movies, my favourite has always been (apart Apocalypse now) "Platoon". Have seen it a trillion times.
Watching BHD, fell in love with Hooter. Haven't read the book yet. Planning to buy some more books about SBS.
Can someone explain me please what a "cairn" is. I looked it up in my english-italian dictionary but it's not even mentioned.
>>By borisette (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 13:51)
Cheers Bethan - new it would be good!
A cairn Borrisette is a small pile of rocks - hand built. Lots of them on top of hills around UK as markers or monuments etc.
It is also a dog - a type of small terrier a bit like a Scottish terrier.
>>By Nomad (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 13:57)
Nomad : thanks for the explanation
Hopefully those Iraqis won't touch that cairn then, but I read it's allready been damaged.
Must not have been easy for AM to go back there I guess, and see his prison cell again.
>>By borisette (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 14:47)
can anyone tell me the link for that monument thing...
NOMAD...
maybe you dont believe anything that anybody reads as it seems to far fetched... maybe its just you that has not led a very interesting life that has been full of bullets, torture and jap-slappin'
>>By Yes-Man (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 15:20)
I don't know what everybody reads Yes man so can't comment on the factual truth of their chosen material.
If you mean I don't believe everything that anybody writes?Too right. Major BS meter and cynical attitude honed in UK big cat world.
Regards AM biography/fiction Odd parts ring true but a lot is, as I say poetic licence.
Does a life need to be full of bullets, torture and jap-slappin' to be interesting then?
Some people seem to blur fact and fiction.
regards.
>>By Nomad (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 15:54)
the reason i said that was because you were making it sound as if B2O and IA were more like his fiction novels...
but... everybody has there own opinions...
>>By Yes-Man (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 16:01)
Hi y'all,
So it turns out that the cairn story _is_ available online at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ just do a search for Andy McNab Iraq and it should pop up.
Also, it appears somebody already mentioned it on this board around page 98, so I guess it really is old news.
Sorry about that! I've only read through pages 45 so I still don't know everything that's been done and said here. (Which is why most of the venom being flung around lately is going over my head... just don't get it.)
To quote Dr. Evil, "It's frickin' freezing in here Mr. Bigglesworth!"
What say we all warm up to each other and play nice from now on?
Here's my attempt: Just started reading He Who Dares by Michael Paul Kennedy. Anybody else? I found the first few chapters a bit boring and hard to follow but really woke up when I read about the caning in Hong Kong. swish swish thwack! Ouch!
>>By Majorette (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 16:05)
There's a lot in b20 that doesn't add up Yes man when you read it back to back with TOTGA (Chris Ryan) and then add to the confusion by also reading Michael Asher's book, a lot of B2O may well be fiction, or at least poorly remembered and confused facts and details filled in with poetic licensce. i think AM has a great imagination for playing for sympathy and showing himself in the best light and how he will take advantage of anyone when the opportunity arises (example after example littered throughout IA and b2o). I wouldn't trust him.Ever.
Not to say I think what he went through was a bed of roses.
IA seems more of an genuine account.
I await Soldier 5 as another piece of the puzzle.
There is a tale about a cairn built by Michael Asher in his book the Real bravo two Zero.
Maybe the cairn was disturbed by someone looking for the guiness buried underbneath it
>>By Nomad (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 16:35)
i have "the real B2O" but after only the first chapter i couldn't get into it...
i have read the B2O and TOTGA but cannot get to the truth... who is lying or exagerating, McNab or Ryan.. we will all just have to wait till soldier 5...
what does people reckon to vince philips though... was he the one that screwed up or what???
i would like to hear of anybodys theorys...
>>By Yes-Man (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 17:18)
Yes-Man
You raise a very interesting question about blame. There is a movement in the field of accident investigation to get away from assigning culpability and blame to one person and, instead, move toward understanding the numerous antecedents that lead to
accidents and disasters. I believe such an approach is appropriate with respect to the events described in Bravo Two Zero.
Events like those of B20 do not unfold because of one person. Often, they occur _in spite of_ many persons trying their darndest to avoid them. Three Mile Island and the Valujet crash in the Everglades are textbook examples. In spite of numerous checks, safety procedures, and built-in redundancies, the unthinkable still happened. It is fruitless to blame the person at the "sharp" end (the shift worker, the pilot, the operator who happened to be on duty when all hell broke loose) because chances are anybody in their place would have done the same thing they did. A more constructive approach is to ask ourselves what "precipitated" the so-called human error and try to figure out how to eliminate those contributing factors in future operations.
Research over the past two decades has shown that these events occur, not because of one inept worker, but because of many weak links in a chain of events that is set into motion long before the disaster occurs. These "latent errors" accumlate across all levels of a system, including the social and organizational climate, team behavior, individuals, and equipment. In the case of B20, I would not ask the question "who was to blame" but rather, "what were the contributing factors". Incorrect com frequencies, weather forecasts, and inaccurate population density estimates all spring to mind. I'm
sure other board members can point out many more factors to add to the list. The point is, it's almost never one person's fault.
Incidently, this innovative thinking in terms of human error (e.g., not blaming the human) wasn't really crystalized until the early 90s, shortly after B20 occurred. It's no wonder the ruperts blamed the patrol; nobody had taught them differently. Nowadays, this new perspective is finally making its way out of academia (yes, people actually study human error) and into applied domains such as aviation, medicine, and other complex systems.
Did I put y'all to sleep? Sorry 'bout that. Y'all have a nice weekend, y'hear?
>>By Majorette (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 01:49)
Want to know what it's like in freezing conditions as was in BTZ.
Take a hike in tropical camouflage kit through a meat cold store and stay in it for ten hours.
Try thinking straight after two hours.
Try checking a weapon ready for firing after three hours.
Try map reading after five hours
Try remembering which direction you think you're going after six hours, without looking at map.
Too tired to go any further? Lie down. Huddle up. Try to stay alive.
Sleep and you might not wake up.
>>By readit (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 02:16)
There's a fatal flaw with high-tech equipment if you start to rely on it. You have to remember basic training, basic survival, basic navigation, basic everything and think of high-tech gear as luxury items and think basic instinct on every time out from base. That basic basic basic philosophy is drummed into you all the way from basic training to badging. Step too far beyond basic when the chips are down you is in shite.
>>By readit (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 02:24)
Readit's cold store post reminded me of something I'd read before (Simpson: Dead Man Moving)
"His mind collapsed slowly as his body went through the motions of living. The system began closing down, rationalising away the luxuries of digits and limbs and non-vital organs, protecting the core until all that was left was the core. Viscous blood cooled in deadened limbs...
...
He could not recall when he had removed his gloves, his chilled brain sending confused automatic responses, convincing him that he was too hot, but it didn't matter because his hands and even his forearms were lost now.
...
Perhaps...the recognition of voices drifting over...had triggered the almost superhuman effort to wave one hand. A feeble, slow wave.. A plea. Help me. Hold me, please."
>>By bikergirl (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 10:45)
Has anybody read any books from Duncan Falconer ?
Yesman : I guess a lot of things went wrong during GW1 apart from B20. And I don't think we can blame Vincent or anyone for what went wrong.
BAd info, wrong radio freq., weather conditions, HQ thinking they were escaping to the Saoudi Border but instead they went to the Sirian border, the AWAC taking up their signal but as they try to go back to retrack it they get attacked by an iraqi missile (that way they couldn't send a rescue heli).
Anyway a lot of things went wrong, and I don't think we'll ever know the "real" truth, not even in Soldier Five (coming out soon).
And frankly knowing that 3 guys died out there during that mission, others got tortured and only one got away, that's a lot to cope with , for whoever was there and i mean not only the B20 patrol but also those back in HQ. And I agree with Maj. we are only humans and we all make mistakes.
>>By borisette (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 12:01)
I read First into Action borisette and I would recommend you follow that up with Black Water by Don Camsell (think spelt that right).
I mentioned this ages and ages ago. Read Falconer's version of taking the argentinian ship during the Falklands (can't remember name begins with N). Then read Don's (who actually was first onto the ship). Are they the same? Are they hell. Falconer's is over the top ending in an explosion, Camsell's, no explosions, no sinking. Up to you who you believe........
>>By Bethan (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 13:55)
Fact before fiction will straighten strange perspectives. Bit of a clue here in my being ex Navy personnel seconded SBS.
Try this for putting fiction where it belongs.
http://www.btinternet.com/~broadsword
82/thewar/falklands.htm
>>By readit (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 14:20)
noooooo! it's that "wave" sign again (the one infront of broadsword) my puter goes all nutty when I try to have him make that sign.
Any other way to get to that site without using the wave-thingy?
Thanks Bethan for the info, I'm gonna order some new books soon, and I is still thinking on wich ones to buy. Any good idea's (have allready read all AM's , ok except the LD one, but reading the reviews of LD this book doesn't inspire me all that much). Was thinking on Greed (CR) and The Hostage (DF) or some other autobio-one.
What readit, no skiing today, now don't tell me you're one of those brits in Chamonix buying everything of the french (saw that on sky-news).
>>By borisette (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 15:06)
borisette...
i recomend that u read lib day...
it is a good book...
GET IT READ
you wont regret it
>>By Yes-Man (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 15:26)
Borisette
Definitely buy Greed it's a fantastic book - the best I've read in a long time. Never read the hostage but direct action by johnny two combs is fantastic too. Those are my two recommendations for today....
Readit
Thanks for the link, very interesting. Not old enough to remember the Falklands properly and when you only have what others say to educate you, believing the hype is a very dangerous game.
I know I keep harping back to this man, but Peter Ratcliffe's book deals with the Falklands. I'm hoping he's as honest with that as he was with Iraq. Well worth a read for those interested. Especially if you read it with the link above.
>>By Bethan (Saturday, 17 Jan 2004 17:29)
I got it I got it!! I opend the Falklands - thingy.
The only thing I remember about that war , was seeing M.TAtcher every day on the telly.
Very interesting site indeed. People seem to forget that war in a way I guess, Falklands being far away, ....
Now I have a stupid question :
Can anyone explain me this thing, how it works:
now when you get into the army, navy or whatever, how and what do they call you...???Private, or...
then after that what do you become and how do you upgrade to sergeant or corporal or whatever.
And those who pass selection and enter the SAS or SBS what is their title (or whatever you call it)
I know I'm completely ignorant about the matter, but ask me anything about anatomy or fisiology and I'll know that!
>>By borisette (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 01:00)
>>Borisette said:
noooooo! it's that "wave" sign again
Hey Borisette, try out this link for keyboard shortcuts. :)
http://www.georgehernandez.com/xComputers/
CharacterSets/Shortcuts.htm
Will answer questions later. :(
>>By Deusrexmachina (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 02:18)
We Brits don't brag about success like winning wars outright with small task forces. Falklands.
Yanks go putting a third of their mighty force totalling more than our lot put together to invade Iraq / Vietnam other. Vietnam ended up a checkmate and Iraq's going the same way for now and the Yanks are getting a taste of what it were like operating in NI.
Borisette your ? on military ranks. Got no time this morning to post in full order. You can find what you want and foreign ranking system @
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Comparative_military_ranks
cheers
>>By readit (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 10:28)
Forgot you can find RN insignia @
http://www.mod.uk/aboutus/keyfacts/
index.html#personnel
that way you will know who is who. select ~people~ on the page
Sound like a recruitment officer here don't I.
>>By readit (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 10:31)
YES SIR!
(now should I do the military salute, you know the one where you hold your hand next to your head, now where did that come from, or should I just bow, or do an elegante "réverance").
Thanks Rexy and Readit for the info.
>>By borisette (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 13:07)
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