Andy Mcnab
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Especially since even back then he had a reputation of being a communicator. (Didn't Ryan say AM had the gift of gab in The One That Got Away? And wasn't AM accused of being "a bit gobby" during Selection?) And his later books are very open with respect to his feelings (I think).
What do y'all think? Do you think we got the abridged versons if the letters on account of them being too personal? Or was he really that succinct in his goodbye forever letters?
>>By Majorette (Wednesday, 21 Jan 2004 21:43)
Food for thought indeed M. Perhaps a little bit of both? And let's not forget this will be the .... time they have to write a letter like that.
What do you say to your loved ones - what's the very last thing you want them to 'hear' from you. Perhaps all it takes is "I love you" ?
Further more it's a letter you don't really want to write (I pressume).
Excellent opportunity for people with the experience to tell us what 's it like to have to write the last words..
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 21 Jan 2004 21:59)
But he wrote them BEFORE leaving for the mission...
Perhaps He already said "enough" (as quantity) to his beloved ones: wife, parents... well, I guess he did spend a lot of words to Kelly, but this is strictly personal -in my opinion.
So, in my opinion, He became the great writer we all know by... "pure chance". :)
Remember that "Bravo Two Zero" wasn't thought to be a best-seller: He Himself declared that He was told to write it, not that way, but just to explain how the events were. No one of the Regiment (Mr Andy included) imagined that someone was going to read it.
:)
I wanted to do a list of questions and then send it on Gnooks, but dunno when the darn I'm gonna have enough time to organize myself, so I'll just post now a coupla of them.
In spoiler for those who didn't read "Bravo Two Zero".
What happened to the videos filmed by the Iraqis near the end of the book? I'm not thaaaaat curious to see His face, but has these tapes been aired in the Western TV? (I doubt it though.)
Someone some pages ago (if I'm not mistake Yes-Man) asked who could be Sarah in "Crisis Four". My imagery is fixed on Joanna Going, but in a way I hope not 'cause:
(for those who didn't read "Crisis Four".)
1) she's on the bad side;
2) ... not nice ending for her. :(
I think Carrie could be impersonated by Jennifer Connelly. *blush mode ON*
:P
Till the next time, guess I'm going to Zzz-land now, *sigh*!
'Nighto! ;)
>>By Deusrexmachina (Wednesday, 21 Jan 2004 22:35)
What's to say "If you get this letter you'll know I'm dead, love you lots, be watching you."
Serious, not the most poetically romantic kind of bloke is he?
Hey, and that there store detective is still on my case and I in't nicked nothing, yet! I understand he's been promoted from gardening duties but can't leave off pruning, and I had a conflab with him about this gold fish bowl we all drop into and how it's got too many Carp and a lot of submerged rabbits. That should confuse him a while, maybe.
>>By readit (Wednesday, 21 Jan 2004 22:49)
What's to say?
How 'bout something like this:
(ahem)
Dear (enter loved one's name),
I hope you never have to read this letter, but in the event that you do, I just wanted you to know how much I love you and how important to me you are. I know things were not easy for you with my being away all the time. And I don't blame you if you hate me for leaving you like this. Lord knows I wish it weren't so. But please understand that I followed the only path I knew how. I may not have been the best husband/son/father, but I did the very best I could. I don't regret my life; I only regret how short it was. It would have been nice to have seen you one more time so I could tell you this in person.
I love you more than you can imagine. Always will. And never doubt that my last thoughts were of you.
All my heart,
Andy
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 00:02)
7 days readit - not bad ;o)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 00:13)
Very interesting angle, Majorette...
... and a very poignant "sample" letter. I hadn't thought much about the brevity of AM's notes. Maybe he was giving a summary more of their tone and intention than their actual content.
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 02:34)
<< What's to say "If you get this letter you'll know I'm dead, love you lots, be watching you." >>
Good grief, Readit! If that's what you'd write, then it's truly a blessing (or a mercy) that your letters never had to be delivered....
<< Serious, not the most poetically romantic kind of bloke is he? >>
You mean as compared to you? Oh, absolutely not! It's quite obvious who's the real sweet talker! ;o)
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 02:38)
Tongue in cheek ladies, ever heard that phrase? And you called me serious no gut humour at one point!!
Now I know why the men round here need therapy and a little man to man on Flork. Two heads and more trying to make head and tail of your up down posts, like when you don't understand our humour you go on the defensive using McNab as a tea cloth to hit us with. What I were saying was who gives a toss what he said to his family, that kind of stuff is private and that's where it should stay. If it's in the public eye it's likely not as original as it may sound. Publishers have an eye for these things like advertising and marketing gen, to sell their man to best advantage whether that be on sympathy and in McNab's case synpathy all the way. Somebody I know and you all know is ghosting a book for a mate as I write this, and he in't letting her put all the truth to paper. Some of it is beefed up and the rest toned down to fit with what will sell him to the best advantage. BTW, not his first book! He picked her out of this forum to help write his next.
You're a hard nut bunch of sharp tongued girlies as a few men here have rightly pointed out. In some respects you're fun to spar with in others you do yourselves no favours with men. You're too McNabby in outlook toward us like you don't like competition from other men. He were like that, and if you haven't worked that out for yourselves you're reading him through rose tinted specs.
At the Soldier 5 hearing in NZ "Stan" swore on oath that McNab lied about BTZ so it will be interesting to see how close to Asher's book Soldier 5 will be. Can Soldier 5 tarnish McNab's label? Dunno, but one thing's sure Ryan were one of the babies of the squad, less experienced slightly more common sense than McNab. Ryan gabbed about Vince like baby brothers do when goaded on by the big boys while they kept theirs shut, and the old man of the team died: and happen that were more to do with his being passed over in favour of a baby running the show! What with the weather, bad intel, bad decisions he would have disagreed with, yeh, Soldier 5 won't tell it all like it was because the MOD won't let him. Why? Can't say here, but if you've read this board from F to B you will know the answer.
>>By readit (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 10:58)
Readit
"Soldier 5 won't tell it all like it was because the MOD won't let him"
One question - if you can/want to answer - is it more to do with mcnab being on the vetting committee? Flork, if you don't want to post.
One more quick post - this was in the sun yesterday and made me laugh...
SAS Liar's Secret Kid - won't post the whole thing but basically said man met women via the internet claiming to be in the SAS (which he wasn't).... That's about it.
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 11:06)
Two minor points - just read the can't say here oops.
Second part was not aimed at readit!! Just in case there's any confusion out there....
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 11:08)
One last thing before I high-tail back to Gen, I been thinking on how you know the answer because it's glaring obvious but what you can't do is accept the truth because it will hurt the hero you've made of McNab. Sad fact is you want him to be his hero Nick Stone only you're forgetting Nick Stone is a figment of McNab's imagination. He were never that good and were a loose cannon and that's why he were sent where he were sent, only he came back and then the gods that be had to rethink how to shut him up quick time. The right payoff that didn't look too obvious as some would say, like letting him wear the right coat and being where they could keep him in jelly and icecream. Bah, you think you're all so clever, work it out for yourselves.
>>By readit (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 11:16)
Storm clouds were on the horizon, Beth, and Desert Storm became a convenient theatre of war for disposal purposes. Some men talk more than others and the gods had wind of books coming out of unexpected early retirements and unexpected deployment could save a lot of red faces! What can't be said here can't be florked neither.
see ya
>>By readit (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 11:25)
Hello, Readit...
Thank you for being so articulate this time. Whether you believe me or not, I truly appreciate hearing what you have to say when you speak so directly and honestly. In turn, I'd like to explain something very fundamental about how I, personally, approach discussing anything AM related.
Because this is a public forum, I choose to avoid posting negative speculations. I believe this gives posters and lurkers like yourself a skewed perspective of my perspective. My rose-coloured glasses are not as deeply tinted as you may think; it is more a case of "speak no evil in public" because I am not privy to what is or is not the truth about certain matters. Those with whom I offboard, however, do get to know my thoughts more fully -- I am willing to delve into theories and speculation if the forum is private and can do no public harm.
Which brings me to the criticism of BABES and BULLIES, and even Buddy's pantomimes -- postings which, to most of us, were blatantly written tongue in cheek. And what is good for the goose, should be good for the gander, don't you think? The problem some of us silly gooses have is that we cannot always recognize the tongue-in-cheek intent of certain posters like yourselves. The way you speak to us, or introduce ideas to us, does not seem to convey humour and instead we get offended and defensive. It is definitely a communication problem. One that I want very much to learn to overcome.
So I would like to strike an agreement with you, please. I promise to try very hard to listen with a receptive and open mind to whatever you want to share or discuss, if you will please try to remember that you are only seeing a part of the picture and that we are not quite as naïve and love-blind as we might appear, it’s just that the negative stuff isn’t aired in public.
Is this an acceptable agreement? Do we have a deal?
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 11:51)
Forgive me, I just came back and realized there were posting in between...
Readit,
My post was specifically in reply to your post: "Tongue in cheek ladies,..." (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 10:58)
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 12:36)
Re: last letters...
Perhaps the brevity of some last letters is because it's all been said. But what if there was no chance for a last letter?
Exiting the corner, she was confronted by the sight of his Ducati laying on it's side, forks bent, bodywork shattered. Eyes everywhere. Where was he? Relief as she saw him stood by the car, now stationary, on their side of the road. But the wrong side of the road.
He was fine, he said. He'd found the car coming towards him and had nowhere to go. They'd hit head on, but he felt OK. The police were called. Whilst they waited, they tried to calm the panicked woman driver. Nothing broken, except the bike, he joked.
The police asked him to wait in their car whilst they talked to the woman. That's where he died. Succumbing to a head injury no-one knew he had. He was gone. No warning. No time for letters. No time for words. They'd had the conversation often enough, but she never imagined it would be like this. Deep into their journey by then, home was 5 countries away. She rode home. Alone
>>By bikergirl (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 13:29)
I have just been on amazon to see about the soldier five...
i could have swore that it was due for release at the beginning of feb...
it now says that it will be released 4th march.
is it me that is going mad or have they postponed it AGAIN...
>>By Yes-Man (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 13:35)
Bikergirl...
May I ask the background of your story?
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 13:47)
[ Majorette ]
Letters: I agree with readit that it should be no concern of us to speculate on them, due to their private nature.
I do sense that your question is more related to the fact that they were awfully short, considering the writing-skills he presents in his books.
I doubt that he was very articulate when first wrote B20. Therefore, I assume the editors had to go through the script quite a bit before they ended with the final release-version of the book.
As he's written IA and then his fictions, he's picked up more and more "tricks of the trade", and perhaps now he needs minimal editing when it comes to grammar and the "technical" bit that goes into writing a story.
I suspect the same goes for Chris Ryan, although he had more education than AM. I think this reflects in CR's writing as well. CR has for instance chosen to vary his books in terms of writing in first or third person.
AM admitted that he once tried to write in third person, but it was all crap. In fact, the main reason he writes in first person, is that this is the only method he's able to transfer his characters' feelings, emotions, experiences etc. to text. He also used the same technique now as he did on B20 : talking everything into a micro cassette-recorder, and then putting it into writing.
(Source for the section above: Ink magazine interview, December issue. Has been mentioned quite a lot in here).
>>By ortlieb (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 13:51)
Yes-Man,
When I preordered in December, Soldier Five had a March 2004 publication date...
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 14:02)
Time and time again I have to say this. Clever? Think we're clever? We guess babe, hadn't you realised that? We can't do anything else. To be clever, you need the knowledge to make an informed decision. Rightly or wrongly the only knowledge we have is what is published, that means we make a decision we believe to be right but in all honestly is hopelessly skewed in one direction. It's the age old problem of only put out what makes you look good or right. Why does nobody with an "SAS background" understand that. Can I say it any plainer? If you were there, was I with you? No. Were any of this lot with you? No. Then how do you expect us to know "the truth". Look at the problem with ignorant eyes, instead of I know what I'm talking about eyes. Or do something about it and publish the truth. If you watch a crime and do nothing, you're as guilty as the person who committed the offence.
One more point - you've already put forward several links to inform us. So instead of criticism, educate.....
>>By Bethan (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 14:38)
Hi Ortlieb,
<<I agree with readit that it should be no concern of us to speculate on them, due to their private nature...I do sense that your question is more related to the fact that they were awfully short, considering the writing-skills he presents in his books>>
Exactly. Thanks for helping me to clarify that. I guess I sort of expected a longer, more sentimental letter out of him.
It's probably the case that the letters he published were abbreviated versions, as a-i-b suggested. And I agree, too, that such letters should be kept private. However, when a person chooses to publish them, I think that makes it fair for the readers to speculate about them.
bikergirl-
<<But what if there was no chance for a last letter?>>
You've hit upon my biggest fear. Excuse me.. I'm going to go write a letter...
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 16:23)
Well, I haven't read B20 in some time. Guess I will have to go back over it soon since it seems to be the main topic of discussion at the moment. And I see the cast of dozens is still here and going strong. :)
How is everybody? Heard anything new and interesting about McNab movie developments? IMHO Sean Bean is still top of the list for NS. :) He's always pleasant to watch.
Haven't had a chance to catch up with all 30+ pages you maniacs have been pounding out since my last visit of any length. Just trying to hit the highlights. ;) Hope everybody's well!
>>By Dare (Thursday, 22 Jan 2004 18:08)
Darling readit,
Hearing you acknowledge we're a "hard nut bunch of sharp tongued girlies" I'm always pleased to confirm.
And if you’ve been waiting for the tongue, I’m very glad to oblige.
"what you can't do is accept the truth because it will hurt the hero you've made of McNab. Sad fact is you want him to be his hero Nick Stone only you're forgetting Nick Stone is a figment of McNab's imagination"
IMHO that is a repeat of oooooold boring stuff that we've answered so many times, if I would do that again I would be afraid of being prosecuted for plagiarism.
Now of course we’ll get the whole sh*t again of ‘not giving anyone with a different opinion a chance’ blablabla.
So I’ll be offering you your chance. Tell us something new Readit. Stop talking about the people who are looking over your shoulder and probably whispering in your ear. Give them my kind regards and tell them they’re welcome anytime under their chosen name.
All we’ve heard so far from you is stuff that anyone can find in those 132 pages and the ‘buddy-revelations’
Anything else we ask ‘you cannot board nor Flork’
Indulge us with your motives, and don’t say it’s Andy McNab since your heart is obviously elsewhere.
It’s not your opinion of McNab himself you want to share with us, that might have been when you were really a newby but you are older than Gnod and know the content of all these pages (if not you’re pretty contradictory in your posts). So please… educate or entertain – I know you’ve got it in you, throw it all out boy.
>>By Lynn (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 09:25)
Here ye, here ye... fellow McNabbers:
Almost done with Remote Control now -- then moving on to Crisis Four.
Be prepared to debate... ;)
Meanwhile, there's one teeny, tiny thing I discovered about AM's writing in RC:
Although he's obviously a man that has an eye for detail, I'm surprised that pay attention to phrases and language that is specific to US, vs UK. I'm referring to the situations when NS has to put on an American accent in some situations. The things that pops to mind, is that he chose to use the typical UK phrase "ill", instead of the American "sick". This phenomenon occurs from time to time, but I can't remember where on the top of my head.... (and I forbid you to go search for them a-i-b !!!)
>>By ortlieb (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 10:29)
*ahem* Pardon the typos... bad hair day.. (or perhaps it's brain-day?)
>>By ortlieb (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 10:30)
Green-Eyed monster Lynn sort of leapt into mind first off then I read some more and noticed your English is much improved. In your own words you say you are not always able to understand some of what is posted in full on English, and by your latest outburst looks like you is repeating something heard in Chinese Whispers.
Pot calling kettle black don't make any tea with me.
Sweet nothing, on the contradictory cake you're a master chef in comparison to most of the stuff you've written and I have read. Will say I'm lost on the gnod age thing because I don't understand that one.
Hey, this one. "Indulge us with your motives, and don’t say it’s Andy McNab since your heart is obviously elsewhere."
It's that Green-Eyed monster again! Sorry if I haven't paid enough attention to you, sweet pea, but I don't recall your florking for info that I've been told higher up 132 would be considered negative input on McNab. Strange that comment too because it seems like negative charge is straight off from the likes of you if us men don't take to the florked flirting. Flirting is dangerous for us men and can lead to you women charming information out of us and that is one thing I avoid like the plague!
My opinion on McNab. You sure you can cope with this? Flork me!
>>By readit (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 11:27)
Hey sweet pea, why don't you "Indulge us with your motives".
Tell me why you're here and why you've said the same things over and over so many times you sound like a needle stuck in a groove.
Why else is readit here, readit a readitholic, if not to talk with other people who read McNab books. Some florking has been fun some rubbish but that's the rub of differing people differing opinions and some wanting to backlash in the privy which is fine by me.
Ortlieb said something interesting last post but your attack on me says I don't have right to input by default of your trying to get me to set a fire and that way you get me banned from gnod! Think me stupid, think again sweet pea. Your clinging columbine whispering sweet nothing in your ear in't no match for Virginia Creeper.
Otlieb's "ill" and "sick", and the rest if you're quick on the uptake of American ~ English mismatches, they're thick and fast in a lot of books by SAS authors who claim to have worked alongside US troops. Makes you wonder don't it, who has and who hasn't served with US troops, and who has and who hasn't lived Stateside?
>>By readit (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 11:48)
Does anyone here know what else "Stan" said under oath?
Sweet pea, this is your big moment, barring what I posted up top about Soldier 5.
If I tell more how long do you reckon it would remain on the board?
See these questions need to be asked because what's the point of me posting something that proves I know what I'm talking about if within seconds it is going to vanish!?
Whatever, if you wait a while Soldier 5 will be on the bookstands. Will believe what you read same as you believe McNab? Big question that one.
>>By readit (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 11:59)
Back to McNab books. Who thought Dark Winter was less about Dark Winter the exercise than a book about McNab and emotional outburst?
Now that question was asked of me and I had to think real hard before I could answer.
Show me yours and I'll show you mine, later.
fag stubbed out, work to be done.
>>By readit (Friday, 23 Jan 2004 12:04)
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