Andy Mcnab
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>>By Lynn (Sunday, 15 May 2005 14:14)
Uhm...
Actually I dunno why the S.A.S. should be enlightened! After all, if civilians know certain ways of training, so will terrorists.
This -long- article explains what happened in the hijacked airbus at Marseilles Airport, dec. 1994!
http://www.specialoperations.com/
Counterterrorism/gign.html
Just to let you know, members of the GIGN team have been injured seriously!
[...]"The terrorists were highly trained," says de Favier, "and very quick." They hardly took a second between releasing spent ammunition clips and inserting fresh ones into their curved magazines. They knew exactly how to fire, aiming for heads and the upper chest. "Their deadly spray didn't let up for an instant."
[...]
Oh yeah: hi guys. Long time no see. :D
>>By Deusrexmachina (Monday, 16 May 2005 22:45)
>>"The terrorists were highly trained"
Heh, why do you think I study this crap, Rex? I'm planning on shooting back when the jack-booted thugs come to my door. We actually had SAS in Waco, Texas, invited to interfere in our internal situations (Delta Force was there, too, of course--a direct violation of our Constitution).
I'm not fond of terrorists, but I hope every citizen in the UK and USA realizes, our laws mean nothing, the men with guns make the rules or just ignore them.
Our heroes, even our war heroes, used to stand for something. Our heroes now defend nothing but their own macho clan, thus we have cops who operate as street gangs and SAS blokes who think that morality is somehow not their job.
It is a bit odd, isn't it, that shooting an unarmed person in the head is "doing your job" if you're SAS, but it's murder if you're not wearing a uniform?
Some people see sheer power and long to be a part of it...I'm not one of them. Yeah, yer heroes could come kill me right now--in fact, probably would were it not for the law. I have something they don't, though...I learned right and wrong around age five, and I've not deviated.
I praise terrorists who use the same methods as our "heroes," why not? Murder is murder, let's just all praise the killers in society and then we'll have true world peace--the most violent will rule us. Fun fun fun.
This is not an attack against Rexy, it's a statement I'd like all of ya'll who want more and more power being given to the military to consider.
Cheers.
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 18 May 2005 21:08)
Crickey JJ, you been smokin some weird stuff.
We should nuke the terrorists with "Viagra" , that'll keep them busy for a while.
>>By spiketheprovo (Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:12)
Make love, not war - They should make that a slogan ;-))
Keep missing you elsewhere Spikey :-(
>>By Lynn (Friday, 20 May 2005 00:35)
I hate doing stuff like the above, it's just so damn fun to play devil's advocate, I can't resist. Until we get a really liberal terrorist-sympathizer here, I'm just gonna have to speak for them, as pukey as it may be. The board's too boring when we're all in agreement.
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 20 May 2005 19:48)
Sorry, forgot to add...Part of my motivation was the fact that the word "terrorist" is now synoymous with "Satan," which is odd since the correct definition of a "terrorist" is "an armed insurgent whom the US is currently NOT selling arms to."
I mean, you must admit, using the word "terrorist" is as fun as using the word "communist," you can instantly get people to stop thinking and start reacting.
Since we're on the subject of terrorists, I have to ask...What should win the award for best civilian-killing terrorist act of all time...Dresden, or Hiroshima?
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 20 May 2005 20:28)
Aaaah I can't resist, I like this one
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
(B.Russell)
>>By Lynn (Friday, 20 May 2005 23:20)
JJ...
Apparently Dresden was bombed at the request of Stalin, because it was a 'vital' rail junction point for German troops en-route to the eastern front, Churchill had to aquiesce (is that spelled right?) because him and Roosevelt needed Stalin to stay onside and go for Berlin with his ground forces. the Allied supreme command wanted the Rooskis to go for Berlin 'cos it would have been to costly for US/Brits in casualties. So basically Dresden was bombed to save soldiers lives. Being an ex soldier myself.... fair one I say!!
The germans still bleat on about it, about how terrible, horrific and illegal it was, erm, excuse me but butchering and liquidating millions of soviet (untermensch) civilians, and jews of all nations wasnt exactly a peacefull 'lets get to know thee brother' singalong and jamboree ..and I can say that without being an anti german rascist 'cos I'm half boxhead/kraut/kartoffelkopf myself. Furthermore as many an ex bomber command crewmen can tell you, if the German nation was content to have Hitler and his 'government' in power and waging war on all and sundry, then they reap the benefits (or not in this case) of what they had sown. I personally think that the saddest thing about Dresden was that 'Bomber Harris' was the only senior British Officer not to be knighted after the war as a direct result of his involvement in the Dresden operations.
As for Hiroshima same sort of thing, some generals calculated that it would have cost en extra million or so Allied casualties to take Japan.....and lets face it it was a forgone conclusion that Japan would be defeated..why consign that amount of soldiers to an early grave or long term disability, because a beaten enemy is too fanatic to surrender..... if its a million of 'ours' versus a couple of hundred thousand of the enemies citizens....well tough luck to the citizens. That sounds a bit glib and so will this....in WW2 none of the Alled nations started the aggression in the first place!! or as they say people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!
>>By Slartibartfast (Saturday, 21 May 2005 20:12)
PS sorry about the spelling mistakes... I'm crap on a computer
>>By Slartibartfast (Saturday, 21 May 2005 20:25)
DWIGHT EISENHOWER:
"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:
"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
- Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 21 May 2005 22:30)
JJ,
The fact is that after 1 Nuclear weapon they still didnt surrender, even the Germans baulked at 'unconditional' surrender at first, the Germans werent given the option of dictating the terms of surrender, so why should the Japanese have been afforded that luxury, just to save face? to save their own opinions of themselves and the ridiculous Bushido code!! after all they didnt seem to think much of the 300 thousand odd civilians opinions whom they slaughtered and raped at Nanking and the countless more killed in other countries and in POW camps throughout the far east.
It took a second weapon to bring about VJ day so perhaps Ike had the luxury of Hindsight/wishfull thinking in his opinions of the Japanese capitulation. His quotes do after all state that they were HIS beliefs, and I dont recall him having had a pacific command, so I may be wrong, but perhaps he didnt know this particular enemy as much as he thought he did.
Why is it that when extreme measures are dealt to such heinous regimes to shorten war and save lives, people bleat on about how horrible it all was. I'm sure the allied POW's working on the Burma railway and such other 'projects' ont see Hiroshima and nagasaki as 'terrorist' acts, I'll bet they were wondering why the things werent dropped sooner!
And regardless of whether they would or wouldn't have surrendered before resorting to Nuclear weaponry.....the calculated million or so allied lives werent expended to take Japan were they?
Sad fact that the Bombs were dropped, caused fear and panic for decades....but if they werent dropped in Japan, where would they have been dropped? Korea? Vietnam? perhaps it was in a perverse way a good thing that they were dropped in 45, the world certainly knew of the ferocity and terror of such weaponry and what ever may be said about the arms race....the fear of Nuclear holocaust did keep nuclear holocaust at bay!
>>By Slartibartfast (Sunday, 22 May 2005 10:36)
So, it's okay to kill civilians to teach those damn Bushido-believing assholes who ran the government a lesson? Let's hope the US never loses a war, or I'm gonna be glowing green once we attempt to negotiate the surrender terms.
I'm not so afraid of dying that I'm willing to kill a child--apparently you are.
You seem a nice, intelligent guy on the surface--are you sure you believe what you just said?
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 23 May 2005 05:33)
Slartibartfast and Just Jon, excellent dialog. I tend to struggle between both views. No doubt bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima are truly a couple of the most horrendous events in history. That said I guess I currently side with Slartibartfast. War is a particularly nasty thing and a little deterrent against the modern Attila the Huns can’t be all bad.
Oh yea, something else. Last weekend I went to an open house given by the 6th Ranger Training Bn with an old friend and his boys. His boys got to shoot the M4 with blanks and MILES gear. They loved it. We got to see some truly awesome stuff. I used to go to it when I was a kid, but I am still so impressed.
>>By BadTime (Monday, 23 May 2005 06:50)
Nifty, BadTime, I live quite close to the 5th RTB in Dahlonega, Georgia. Fine bunch of lads.
I think I side with Slartibartfast, too, but I've gotta argue with somebody as my stuffed animals are getting sick of listening to me.
A recent article suggests McNab was very recently in Georgia (not my Georgia, the scary, Eastern-European one) researching "Aggressor." I was surprised as it's due to be published in November, I think, and I'd always assumed books were completed long, long before publication.
Does anyone know the usual timing on that sort of thing?
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 23 May 2005 15:13)
Just Jon
It isnt a case of its 'okay to kill civilians' or a case of teaching lessons' but a case of lets drop this bomb on a city to stop the whole war.....None of the bomber crews really thought that much about whom was dying 'down there' because at 20 000 feet the victims are just an abstract thought...bit different from seeing a living human being in the sights of a weapon......had I been a bomber crewman then yes I would have killed children too in that scenario, obviously I wouldn't be thinking 'yipee I'm gonna kill some kiddies today'....I was in the Army though and would I have killed a child whom I saw in my sights? if that child was holding a weapon aimed at me...too right I would have, otherwise no obviously I wouldnt..I'm not a killer!!
by the way I used SAWES, the british equivalent of MILES, once in the Army whilst on exercise and I was shot 'through the head' at 200 odd metres within 5 minutes of putting the gear on...makes you appreciate just how easy it is to die!! I'd only just popped my head up over a berm on a sunken road, didnt even get a full view before the alarm sounded telling me I was an ex-soldier in that little game!!
>>By Slartibartfast (Monday, 23 May 2005 21:08)
Just Jon,
I would like to know too. I always picture authors with some sort of deadline they have to meet. Now that I think about it, why? So it comes out a year later, what is the big deal?
Slartibartfast,
I had a similar feeling playing paintball. Not even close to the same range, but a long distance lucky shot took me out within seconds of starting. Also that crap on tv about running and dodging bullets… If they see you and are a half way decent shot, your dead. God bless the Professionals.
BTW going to play paintball this weekend. A couple of buddies I haven’t seen in years have talked be into it.
>>By BadTime (Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:30)
<Now that I think about it, why
Imagine you'd go to the butcher and order a wonderful steak and the butcher says, right - leave the money on the counter and I'll get it to you next month ;-)
McNab has signed a contract, he has to deliver :-)
Hello Slartibartfast - really wondering how to pronounce that.
Sorry to intrude, keep the convo going
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 24 May 2005 09:32)
Lynn,
Slar : like far
ti- like tea
bart- like simpson and
fast- as in i dont run so fast anymore on account of being a wheezy old knacker!!
>>By Slartibartfast (Tuesday, 24 May 2005 21:51)
Thanx old knacker ;-) Welcome here
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:26)
Passed/Failed: Andy McNab
An education in the life of the former SAS operator and bestselling writer
Interview by Jonathan Sale
19 May 2005
snippet:
I went to Snowfields School in Bermondsey. We used to get free milk and if there was any spare, one of the teachers would pick kids who needed it to finish it off - me and about four others. The school smelt of the polish used on the parquet floors, a smell that I still hate; I hate the smell of schools generally.
full article:
http://jobs.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?
story=639472&host=29&dir=754
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 25 May 2005 21:18)
Liverpool liverpool liverpool, come on all you scousers out there.... 5 times champions how great is my year getting Liverpool 5 times champions , and in the history books, and a new andy mcnab novel, there is only one thing left to say today"Ferry cross the Mersey" Come on guys sing
>>By brianBJJ (Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:48)
I was just thinking, McNab should write another book like "Firewall" with a computer/hacking theme, to please the nerds like me. Some suggested titles:
"Bravo 2.0"
"Immediate ASCII"
"Crisis Fortran"
"Deep Blue"
I think I should take a nap now.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 26 May 2005 16:37)
"Deep Blue"
hahahaha....
Deep Blue, by Andy mcNab: In which the protagonist averts world annihilation by training a hostile artificial intelligence who has seized control of the US nuclear arsonal that the only way to avoid mutual destruction is not to play the game (of chess).
>>By Majorette (Thursday, 26 May 2005 19:29)
LOL Jon/Maj.
How about
Remote Ctrl
;-)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 26 May 2005 22:16)
Damn! I couldn't think of one for "Remote Control." Well done, Lynnster.
Maj, if the safety of the world ever depends on Andy "crap at maths" McNab training a computer...BOOM.
I guess there's no need to come up with one for "Aggressor," since it sounds like a home-brewed Linux distro already.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 26 May 2005 23:11)
Last Linux ?
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 26 May 2005 23:56)
Ortlieb's contribution to the convo - he's an ex-florker so I'll post in his name
~ Dark Windows
Ortie also thought of the improved version of RC:
~ Remote Ctrl-Alt-Delete
;-))
>>By Lynn (Friday, 27 May 2005 01:02)
Hehehehe nice one Lynn/Ortie! What a talent on this board !! All we need now is an agent and a publisher.
NW
>>By Ninjawoman (Friday, 27 May 2005 10:24)
Anyone who hasn't seen the Royal Dragoon Guards performing "Amarillo" (or has only been able to find a low-quality version of the video) can check out a good-quality version at www.greymansland.com
Apparently, demand for the vid's so high, servers have been crashing left and right, so I thought I'd share a little bandwidth and share a little joy.
Nice one on the "Dark Windows," Ort, you unfinished symphony you.
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 27 May 2005 12:55)
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