Andy Mcnab
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Hi, Camban...
I definitely recommend Sabre Squadron and Victor Two, despite -- or maybe I should say exactly and absolutely because of -- Peter Ratcliffe's derisive attitude! You can only gain by reading/learning their perspectives...
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 10 May 2004 16:19)
camban:
I've only read Sabre Squadron (not Victor Two yet), but it's interesting to get viewpoints from each side.
And yes, I suppose it's a bit like the officer vs the squaddies (although Ratcliffe wasn't officer - he was the RSM).
>>By ortlieb (Monday, 10 May 2004 16:27)
OK, they are back on my list then! Only reservation being Ratcliffe's asserions that they contain too much self aggrandisement of the authors; no change there then!
Also read The Joker by another Peter (can't remember his surname) I thought this was very different in tone to other SAS authors, he almost made it sound very comfy, if you know what I mean.
Currently reading Sarah Ford's book, lady int 14 operative, any comments on that? Especially all of you military ladies out there, another, different perspective; selection with female issues?
>>By camban (Monday, 10 May 2004 16:57)
Technical questions: do these pages automatically refresh with new postings? And, how do you access the spoiler pages please?
How is it that the Chris Ryan section contains only sixteen pages do you suppose? I mean, every one who posts here seems to have read his books.
>>By camban (Monday, 10 May 2004 17:07)
...and furthermore, can you stop the board going back to page one every time you post or log on?
>>By camban (Monday, 10 May 2004 17:09)
You have to refresh your screen to see if there are new posts as far as I know Camban.
For the spoiler explanation and practise you can go to
www.gnooks.com/discussion/text+formatting.html
Access to the spoiler text you get the same way you 'select' a text
Not sure how to explain right in English: put your cursor on the text and use left mouse click.
THe only way I can think of avoiding going to page 1 is add the last page to your favorites and use favorites when you log in - but that's a bit of a cumbersome way- having to renew that when we reach a new page.
>>By Lynn (Monday, 10 May 2004 17:38)
camban-
I've often wondered the same thing about the Chris Ryan page, the Mike Coburn page, etc. I think the reason boils down to convenience. Personally, it's much easier for me to follow just one board than to hop between 2 or 3 of them, especially since many of the topics overlap. And you aren't allowed to cross-post, either (I've tried; I was poofed).
btw, I'm about to start reading Ford's book myself! How goes it so far?
>>By Majorette (Monday, 10 May 2004 18:34)
camban:
Re: Cameron Spence vs P. Ratcliffe:
I covered this one a lot of pages ago, but I believe that Spence's description of Ratcliffe is an accurate one.
Obviously, it's not a very flattering description, but it appears genuine and likely to me.
>>By ortlieb (Monday, 10 May 2004 18:56)
Thanks for all your help.
Majorette, I finished the book last night (Sarah Ford, One Up) it is the usual gripping read of the genre, but very different in places to a man's perspective. I would certainly recommend it. Let me know when you have read it, I would be interested in your opinion.
>>By camban (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 11:33)
Re Sara/h Ford: when news of her book hit the tabloids she was rubbished as a "liar and fatasist", that she'd never served alongside SAS men and no one in 14th intel were willing to confirm her existance...However, another SAS book/author mentioned a Sara, the author too rubbished as a liar and fantasist...But hey, "liar and fatasist" is par for the course when the Mod sees fit to crop lofty storytellers: whether liars or not...
Re: rubbishing (sily comparisons) of other ex SAS mens' biogs on this board.
It is fair to say I've endeavoured to be honest and level-headed on all matters SAS writers (fair crack of whip to all) and don't really see one as better/best than the other in writing or as men! The books by various ex SAS men can be viewed as honest (in their opinion), maybe a little outspoken at times and less than fair assessments of fellow SFOs, but that said it is not always just their opinion, books are often discussed with fellow ranks and higher...
In response to the continual slagging off of Peter Ratcliffe (RSM) on this site, it's also fair to say few squaddies or junior NCOs are up for "bringing shiny red apples" (teacher pet mentality) to the Regimental Sergeant Major, (the devil incarnate, the one who can make or break you) yet the first person a squaddie looks to for any chance of promotion is the RSM. That said, their are junior NCOs (serg's/corp's) who do present "shiny red apples" to h'officers & gentlemen, while at the same time alluding to total dislike for Ruperts'...
By the by, the term Rupert was derived from the English Civil War and Prince Rupert's crashing defeat, (nevertheless a brilliant strategist he won more battles than he ever lost, but one mistake cost him dear and his reputation went down the pan), and since then all h'officers & gentlemen have been branded with same "senseless" brush throughout the army as a whole, though a rather senseless SAS squaddie, for some unknown reasoning, thought he'd invented "Rupert" as a derogatory title: all on his own' e'o...
Can anyone here, say they really like anyone in a position of power and authority over them? Who dreads being pulled in by police patrol officers? Who dreads the tax man? Come on, admit it, like AM and every other SAS writer you all hate a system that has control over what you can and can't do in life...
Read the books for what they are: a dig here and there at superiors, and superiors digging here and there at subordinate juniors...The class system is probably more entrenched in the Army than any other British service life, and it's still true that you can become filthy rich as a working/middle class celebrity and the not so filthy rich upper classes will invite you along for dinner and AD choco mints, but to them you're still what you are: not in their league...
>>By devonwren (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 12:50)
Interesting that Sarah Ford's book was rubbished, this is probably a clumsy attempt by the MoD to put off the dim public from drawing their own conclusions. If she was indeed a liar and a fantasist I think she would have painted herself as much more of a heroine than she does (as if!). All that training and practice but never got to shoot anybody? Anyway, AM gets a quote on the book's cover, so it must be true. The lesson is, never read newspapers, full of lies and half truths, can't stand 'em.
Do you know, I always assumed that the term Rupert had evolved from the large number of eponymous officers in the army!
>>By camban (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 15:28)
Oh lordy, lordy, believe what is on the cover of a book as clarification to content!? I rest my case on cover of Dark Winter: the greater part of the book's action on UK soil...
Interestingly, S. Ford book was rubbished by notable SAS men (author/s inclusive two pilots), the very same who criticised AM for alleged exploits in NI (Northern Ireland) when indeed he was known to be elsewhere!
Now, who on here can put forth evidence to prove AM was where he said he was, or that he served in that particular zone of NI? Who do we believe, AM or a greater majority on No vote: bearing in mind readers of fiction/biogs believe near every darn word printed as black or white, on this board at any rate...
Who here can put forth evidence to prove non-involvement of other authors in NI/Bosnia/Falklands etc., also rubbished for various reasons by fellow soldiers/MoD, and of course newspapers (editors' always willing to believe bad rather than good) publishing before the facts are proven, and often the truth never coming to light because it would embarrass the press association as a whole...Have you ever noticed how shock headlines are in Upper case and printed apologies (months later) are so small that for the most part they go unnoticed between minor stories and the sports pages, in fact often placed so as to appear like an obscure obituary...
A lot of books published just after the second world war and into the early sixties were denied by the MoD as having been written by combatants...Several of those books have since been republished as Kosha, in fact, I bet one or two of you have read them when researching military history!!! Back then, newspaper editors were a little more circumspect with regards verification of photos/written evidence of wrong doings, falsification etc., and although "publish and be damned" was their chanting motto there was always the reality of "Pride before a Fall" that could land you in court...
Hmm, wonder how Pierce Mirror gazer is feeling right now? Cor...that word FAKE PICS must be making his mouth feel somewhat dry, in light of new revelations that they were snapped in the North of England...Hey, maybe it was all a training exercise!!!
>>By devonwren (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:36)
Posting URL in files section relevant to Women serving Northern Ireland: at you know where...If you don't know where, read bottom of my profile...
>>By devonwren (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:54)
Hey, I was only joking about the book cover! Not that daft. However, your overall point about the veracity of SF book content is probably why we all read them; we can afford to accept some of the prose as truth, or based on truth, because nobody can truly debunk them. After all, it is said many times, by various authors, that none of the operators have any idea where their colleagues are at any given time and it isn't the done thing to ask.
Just got the Lofty Large book with the AM intro, Lofty states in his prologue that many operations are left out, something we all know but which is a bit frustrating, after all, we pay for them! But then where would AM and CR get their plot lines from?
All of these experts who pop out of the woodwork to criticise some new work will have plenty of motives of their own for doing so: being paid? jealousy? name in print? Who knows, who cares. Just like any other critic then?
As for that Piers Moron (Private Eye nomenclature) I imagine some squaddies will one day deliver a supercharged Jeremy Clarkson on Him! (sorry non UK readers)
>>By camban (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:12)
Camban... I agree with your comment on newspapers and will add in the media in general for good measure. Half-truths and lies.
And drat, yet another book I have to order from overseas!!! Drat and double drat!
DW... I personally have no problem with people in authority or power as long as that authority or power isn't abused. If a police officer pulls me over, I assume they need to inform me of something wrong with my driving or vehicle. In the military, I had superiors worth following and others that weren't worth a plugged nickel. Happily, the former were the majority.
And snobs are snobs no matter what rung of the ladder they are on. ;-)
I'd love to have half the books on your bookshelf, DW and camban! You lucky UK readers get the gold when it comes to interesting SAS stuff! Happily AM's books are available here, but I would like to see other SAS writers on the non-fic bookshelves. And CR on the fiction shelves, so I didn't have to order them. :-p
>>By Dare (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:17)
DW: "readers of fiction/biogs believe near every darn word printed as black or white, on this board at any rate..."
I beg to differ, DW, when it comes to this board. I think most of us are intelligent, adult readers and thinkers, with the capacity to discern embellishment and "poetic license." We all have different backgrounds that contribute to varied perspectives of what we read, but most everyone here has an investment in the general topic (AM, SF, military, etc.) and is smart enough to know that "truth" varies from writer to writer. I would be hard pressed to find a regular here who believes any of these books 100% word for word.
If anything, this board demonstrates posters' willingness to question what they read, to impart specific knowledge others may not have (whether it be to challenge or concur), and to basically enjoy the writing and the material for what it is. If nobody questioned the books (and the spin-off topics they create), there wouldn't be 170+ pages to peruse!
On the other hand, the general public -- those not lucky enough to have stumbled upon these pages -- I have my doubts about....
>>By Jiffer (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:59)
Camban re: "After all, it is said many times, by various authors, that none of the operators have any idea where their colleagues are at any given time and it isn't the done thing to ask."
Worse still, various units are often operating at odds (NI for example) even to the extent of finding themselves face to face and sometimes not aware they were on the same side...(ha ha red faces, and blue verbal haze back at base)
Dare re: "And snobs are snobs no matter what rung of the ladder they are on. ;-)"
The British Establishment "takes the biscuit" on chocolate-coated snobbery... As to SAS books on my shelf, you probably have far more than me: (4 AM, 5CR, 2 related) Sorry, what I know comes personal like...
Jiffer re: "I think most of us are intelligent, adult readers and thinkers, with the capacity to discern embellishment and "poetic license."
Unfortunately for readers the psyche of undercover operatives' is to lie through convincingly whiter than white teeth and embellish the not so obviously attached/associated: distraction tactic!! As you so rightly mentioned, this board does tend to point to the naivety of average readers' of SAS biogs/novels when they arrive here, though not so naive after a few runs across the hot coals at Discussion Corner and the icy waters of the Contraditory Straits....
>>By devonwren (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:41)
snob n. a person who feels and acts smugly superior about his particular tastes or interests
Thank God we don't have any of those here!
>>By Majorette (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:24)
LOL Maj!!
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:28)
A what ?? No, never seen those around.. honest !
>>By Ninjawoman (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 23:14)
AM in blindfold for taste test of various C-CBs:
"A chocolate-coated Hob Nob - once tasted...................."
Beats a Fox' selection!
Who wouldn't agree with that ? - all those rolled oats, and look what oats can do for caber throwing Scotsmen and, thoroughbred stallions... ;-)
Send Choco Hob Nobs special delivery to AM for down payment on high-octane read come November...
>>By devonwren (Tuesday, 11 May 2004 23:59)
Breathe easy boys and girls, something's come up this end, so please, do keep the international flags flying here as best you can until November...
>>By devonwren (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:09)
Well, I'm sorry you have to leave for a bit, DW. Hope you won't be gone long and hope it's not anything serious or umpleasant. Before you go, what's a Hob Nob?
>>By Dare (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:43)
What is a Hob Nob...
According to Peter Kay, Comedian... it is the Royal Marine of the Biscuit family.
You can keep dipping them in your brew, and they just keep going... unlike some other biscuits that fall apart when entering your mug... known as 'one dips'
They are a biscuit... and quite tastey... don't think we get them over here in Oz..
>>By srowlandson (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:19)
Ah... thank you for the info, srowlandson! Now the question is, do they come in chocolate? ;-)
New abbreviation RMB (Royal Marine Biscuit) = Hob Nob :-D
>>By Dare (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:53)
Ooops! Hob Nob biscuits?
Thanks, srowlandson, that definition works out much better! I had been thinking in terms of hobnobbing ("rubbing elbows with") with privileged folk (hobnob being a derivation of "have or have not").
However, even with chocolate-covered Hob Nob biscuits, I still can't figure out what I'm agreeing with AM about (not that I wouldn't naturally agree with him, of course! vbg! vbw!), but what the heck is "Beats a Fox' selection!"?
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:59)
Actually totally off topic but....
Fox Biscuits Selection Packs
Fox's Favourites
The Favourites selection pack is the cheapest of all the selections available, usually only costing no more than 2 packets of normal biscuits. You get two or three of eleven different biscuits inside, including Fox's own Bourbon Creams - which are only available by buying this selection.
"With a cup of tea nothing beats a Fox's Classic, with a pint of milk nothing beats a packet of milk chocolate hob nobs"
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:25)
>it is the Royal Marine of the Biscuit family
ha ha ha...we like that analogy down here!!
>don't think we get them over here in Oz..
I'll despatch a Red Cross parcel forthwith...can't have that!!
>do they come in chocolate?
Oh yes they do!!
"Similar in it's rustic simplicity to the Digestive, the Hob Nob is an altogether more complex biscuit, with the aesthetic of something home-made. Perhaps a little overshadowed by its mighty and exciting sibling, the Chocolate Hob Nob."
So...McNab is a Ginger Snap reckon...
("Hard bastard of a biscuit with a satisfying audible crunch. Excellent for dunking and hardly ever suffers tea-disintegration.")
>>By bikergirl (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:45)
Ah contest.... what kind of cookie is McNab ??
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:51)
Oops sorry, seem to have strayed into the wrong board, I was looking for literature but...
>>By camban (Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:31)
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