Andy Mcnab
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I realise it IS that simple to many. But I said I'd lighten up ---yes Cam, overweight in more ways than one, thanks for reminding me, you can forget about the garden picture now ;-) --- so I best leave it at that. Off to lunch. Cheers.
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 8 Aug 2006 12:41)
But first this:
£15k pay rise for SAS men
CRACK special forces troops have been given bumper 50 per cent pay rises to stop them quitting the services.
(...)
Sun security adviser Andy McNab, an ex- SAS man, said: “The forces are a business. It’s good the MoD have recognised this and taken necessary action.”
Congrats guys, more Armani and Porsches ;-)
Just a thought - if more SF experience is saved for the military.. does it mean the Rich&Famous will have to pay even more for their guards/to their guards since ex-SAS personell becomes more scarce?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/
article/0,,2-2006360220,00.html
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 8 Aug 2006 12:51)
Ran into an oldie, but one we (only) had on our AMFT yahoo site. Majorette posted about this article at the time (as a reminder: It’s the Teletubby article, page 125) but since it wasn't online, we didn't post it on Gnooks. Though I'm sure JJ would have since he thinks copyright is the right to copy.
Anyway, since it now IS online I feel free to post the link here. Thanx Majorette, come out of hiding!!
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/
mi_qn4158/is_20031108/ai_n12727012
:-)
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 8 Aug 2006 15:22)
PS..and we do love your wisdom JJ ;-)
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 8 Aug 2006 15:23)
Yes, keep those links coming! Massive copyright infringement is on the way, I promise!
Cam, I agree with you that men like Eric Haney should not fade into obscurity (loved his book, recommend to all), but by that I mean that his ideas should be good enough to stand the test of public approval. I don't know if you Brits are very aware of our Iran/Contra scandal, but that was a case of the public saying NO and men who thought they were somehow above our laws saying YES.
Tell me this, Cam--you're probably the only person who has read more of these ex-Spec Ops biographies than me--how many of those guys either imply or say outright that they would have been criminals if not for the military? It's in their nature to disregard the wishes of the majority and the rights of minorities, that's why we have civilian control of the military.
And as a matter of fact, I don't need those guys to protect me. I need the handful of Air Force dudes with their hands on the nuclear switches. It ain't the Green Berets keeping China outta here.
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 9 Aug 2006 04:03)
This is apropos of nothing, but it's so funny I just had to share it...
http://www.workingforchange.com/
comic.cfm?itemid=21200
Lynn, you might find it particularly funny considering recent blog happenings ; )
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 9 Aug 2006 05:13)
You are right Jon, many have said that and many were petty criminals, including McNab. Problem is that most of these were the old school guys, mostly those who enlisted in the seventies. And many ex-soldiers become criminals upon de-mobbing, my own ex-brother-in-law for example, just left to rot by the army. In fact, it is a very good point because in the past where a young man was going off the rails, an army recruitment sergeant would be called in to assess the youth as a potential recruit. If they still did this, it is certain that our jails would be less full of fit young men who yearn for some focus in their lives. The whole point of soldiers is controlled aggression, far more of them get into trouble when there is no war to fight. You really must read "Amongst the Marines" by Steven Preece, he is McFab with attitude and ability.
>>By camban (Wednesday, 9 Aug 2006 11:42)
Recent blogs are real happenings indeed JJ ;-)
Great cartoon, I'm so glad (political) cartoons are usually points being made in an exaggerated way....
I mean.. this is not real, is it? *wink wink*
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 9 Aug 2006 13:04)
That book looks awesome, Cam! Hope I get a chance to get it. The descriptions at Amazon made it sound like he's a Marcinko type, which I actually prefer to the modern "soldiers-as-angels-sent-from-heaven" template. A murderous bastard who gleefully admits to his psychosis is at least interesting, while Clancy's "tough guys" and especially Vince Flynn's characters do whatever they want not because they're bastards but because, basically, God told 'em to. I've noticed that's an American thing, where the action heroes that really sell are basically boy scouts with guns. They're not amoral, they are above moral--they as Republicans don't need to answer to democratically-enacted law because they answer to Jesus (or an equally fictional idealized "America" which never existed and hopefully never will). Marcinko's an exception to this as are all the Brits I've read.
If any soldier-friendly Brit wants to know what American soldiers actually think like, check out www.corpsblog.com. What those guys write says far more than any anti-military rant I could come up with. Hopefully you Brits are a bit more, uh, sane.
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 12 Aug 2006 02:24)
Actually, I should warn...don't go to that blog I posted unless you are very very very well set up for security. It's a bunch of trackers/toolbars/animated gifs/etc...takes five minutes to view the first page with my CABLE connection. Just wanted to give ya'll an update on the better things our old pal DTO has moved on to...racism, war-mongering, and fucking up you computer if he gets a chance.
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 12 Aug 2006 04:14)
has anyone read damien lewis bloody heroes, I'm dying to buy it but don't want to pay £18 for it. but if it is as good as operation cerain death then i might just have too. comments please!
>>By fony (Saturday, 12 Aug 2006 15:48)
For comment from >>By camban (Wednesday, 19 Jul 2006 11:49) see page 273 ;-)
He left a review on AMFT as well, if you know how to get there. Or Flork Cam for it.
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 12 Aug 2006 16:58)
Fony, I guarantee that you will enjoy 'Bloody Heroes', it is every bit as good as 'Op Certain Death', a brilliant work about extraordinary men in amazing situations. You should find it for less at Amazon or abebooks, my copy has sold though. Also recommend to you 'Highway to Hell' by John Geddes, ex SAS Warrant Officer, now a PMC in Iraq, certainly among the best military memoirs I ever read, what this guy don't know aint worth knowing! Still got that one for sale at Amazon.
>>By camban (Monday, 14 Aug 2006 12:12)
thx cam
>>By fony (Monday, 14 Aug 2006 15:43)
Boy Soldier 4 is baptised 'Meltdown'
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 15 Aug 2006 11:42)
Question about "extraordinary men." If they were special before joining up, there would have been no need to "break them down" as the military does and make their self-esteem based solely on their service. If they were not extraordinary before the military, then it stands to reason that the military can make anyone extraordinary, in which case we shouldn't give out medals since those serving are incapable of NOT serving bravely.
It's just weird to me, a logical puzzle. Does simply signing up make you a hero? Or were you a hero before you signed up? Really, I want to hear opinions on this, because I've known a lot of military dudes, even Rangers, who sure as hell weren't heroes.
Just for the record, I'm not a hero. Someone shoots at you, I'm running.
>>By Just Jon (Sunday, 20 Aug 2006 01:22)
Little snippet:
Mark Barty-King, who died on March 25 (2006) aged 68, was among the most successful commercial publishers of his generation; (...)
Barty-King put his military background to good effect when publishing the former SAS soldier Andy MacNab's Bravo Two Zero: when MacNab's second book, Immediate Action, was subject to an injunction by the Ministry of Defence, Barty-King organised such a robust defence that the book was eventually published without a word being changed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/11/db1102.xml
JJ
@ "extraordinary men"
“There are no extraordinary men...just extraordinary circumstances that ordinary men are forced to deal with.” by Admiral William Frederick Halsey Jr. (American Naval Officer who led vigorous campaigns during World War II)
Does simply signing up make you a hero? Huh? Not if you ask me. What exactly is your definition of a hero?
Think it's subjective. Or as Mark Twain says:
“Heroine: Girl in a book who is saved from drowning by a hero and marries him next week, but if it was to be over again ten years later it is likely she would rather have a life-belt and he would rather have her have it” ;-)
One to think about: “Unhappy the land that is in need of heroes.” by Bertolt Brecht
BTW did you know a 'hero' is also a large sandwich?
;-)
>>By Lynn (Sunday, 20 Aug 2006 21:57)
My (probably incorrect) definition of a hero would be "one who risks great sacrifice so that others might not suffer." Therefore by my definiton, killing a man because he insulted your honour, even if he's bigger than you, would not be heroic. Saving a child from drowning in three feet of water when you're an expert swimmer would not be heroic. Joining the military, unless you actually think not doing so would mean great harm to someone else--not heroic. Dying because your hummer ran over an IED on your way to rape some civilian chicks--not heroic. As to what IS heroic in my book...
Fighting a pitched battle to the end may or may not be. Keep in mind, if you're surrounded by insurgents who will cut your head off if they capture you, running isn't really an option. Staying reasonably calm is brave as hell, but it's also pretty rare--just look at stats on how many bullets find their mark in a battle. I'd say Labalaba of Mirbat fame was heroic--he exposed himself to more danger than "necessary" to allow his comrades to live. Bob Consiglio sounds pretty heroic to me as well. Andy? Who knows, the circumstances of everything he's done are disputed. Embassy siege? Not sure...I mean, you've the most highly-trained soldiers in the world going up against some rag-tag idiots...Scary, yes, but the assaulters were in more danger from their own ropes/grenades as it turned out, than from the terrorists in the building. And had they refused to go, they would have lost everything as far as career and friends. I'd still say that was heroic, but not Sgt. York-heroic.
I guess my problem is that the word "hero" has been cheapened. Fox News refers to everyone in the military, even typists serving in Hawaii, as "heroes," and I think it devalues the great sacrifices that have been made by the "real deals." Maybe we need degrees of heroes, "hero grade one," "hero grade two," etc.
As to the sandwich, depends on where you live. In Atlanta, they're "subs," in other places "grinders," "hoagies," or yes, "heroes." I think "hero" meaning sandwich is more western-U.S. if I recall correctly from my time in Arizona and Cali.
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 21 Aug 2006 00:13)
Still 'coming soon' but it has a name and logo (?) now..
Andy McNab's Enigma Force:The Regiment
"Train with Andy McNab, ex-SAS soldier in your quest to join the Regiment."
http://www.finessemobile.com/
index_games2.htm
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 22 Aug 2006 14:11)
Interesting 'thought' JJ, about grades of heroes - but I still think it's subjective, even the definition is.
I mean.. Hollywood Heroes.. what are those??? (grade 0- perhaps) Still.. they could be role models. (Good or bad, also subjective)
Wikipedia:
"A hero usually fulfills the definitions of what is considered good and noble in the originating culture"
So what do you consider to be 'good and noble'?? - What's your culture? Your social background and experience? One persons hero could be another persons villain.
Hitler has been some peoples hero for quite some time!
And does it have to be 'big deeds' that make a hero? I think not. When I saw a lady yesterday, walking with a group of 'children' with Down Syndrome.. the way she held one of them and looked at him in such loving way.. she was my heroin at that moment.
There are many many people like that - with tough jobs and they do it everyday because they care.
But they're not in the news, no movie will be made and no one calls them Heroes. But they are.
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 22 Aug 2006 14:28)
PS I hope I didn't sound like it's a huge sacrafice to be working with people with Down Syndrom, it can be very rewarding BUT it's also very tough both physically and emotionally. It takes real dedication to the job.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/perspective/
stories/2006/1645408.htm#
snippet:
"With all the bad media coverage given to the UK and US armies over the last few years, you would think they are both run by complete idiots and manned by sadistic bullies.
I served in the British army for 18 years, both in the Infantry and in the Special Air Service, and I am now a director of a private military company with people working in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
I've trained new recruits and commanded soldiers on operations, and I know this continuous negativity is unjustified. The trouble is that the men and women who serve their country are not allowed to have a voice so can't speak out in their own defence."
There's audio and transcript - I can't seem to get the audio to work though.
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 23 Aug 2006 14:22)
Anyone interested:
http://www.newmediazero.com/Jobs/7511/
New+Media+Marketing+Assistant.html
New Media Marketing Assistant - Random House Group
23 August 2006
Contact Name: Lynn Phillips
Location: London
We’re looking for an assistant to join our New Media
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Transworld Publishers and Random House Children’s Books. Based in Ealing, the two companies publish a host of bestselling writers, including Kate Atkinson, Dan Brown, Bill Bryson, Jilly Cooper, Roald Dahl, Ben Elton, Joanne Harris, Sophie Kinsella, ANDY MCNAB, Christopher Paolini,
Terry Pratchett, Philip Pullman, Chris Ryan, Joanna Trollope and Jacqueline Wilson, plus a range of popular characters, series and licences.
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 23 Aug 2006 14:27)
good question jon, I think we may need to have different grades of heroes because i couldn't work out one way of making any act or circumstance where i didn't leave another group that should be under the same catogory out. Bloody hell i hate having to think, hrts a lot. well just for an update i'm joining back up as i kinda hate civilian life and the cp stuff can wait.
>>By fony (Thursday, 24 Aug 2006 17:29)
Hey fony, as you know the military would kick me out in about a week at most, but I was thinking today that part of the appeal is probably that people have to do their jobs, unlike in civvy life where you have no-load types who basically do the least they can for a paycheck while others take up the slack. Is that part of the appeal for you?
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 25 Aug 2006 03:00)
> no-load types who basically do the least they can
Really? Well at least I work very hard in civvy life.
Ooops there's my boss. Bye!
>>By Lynn (Friday, 25 Aug 2006 11:22)
I just like the military ethos and it makes more sense to me, I never thought of the army as a job but more a way of life that i got paid for. My civilian experiences so far have not been great mind you there are no jobs where i moved back to and the money sucks and people tend to be stupid but hey what more could i wish for. plus like you said no-load types, they really annoy me and i thought i would play tthe game and try and freeload but got more annoyed with myself over it.
>>By fony (Friday, 25 Aug 2006 20:03)
I thought of a group of people that can be called heroic, although not always correct in what they did they did it for others as much as themselves and thats all the ww2 vets. They faced amazing odds and sacrificed their lives and souls all so that we could live a free life (didn't exactly happen but it was better than hitlers version). And i believe they were all heroes from the d day landings to the 101st to all that took part in market garden, I think they were brave and definately heroic.
I think orwell put it best about the military "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
>>By fony (Sunday, 27 Aug 2006 23:15)
Great choice for heroes, I definately agree. I have been fascinated since childhood to hear WW2 vets talk about enlisting as civilians, with no desire for a military career, and facing the odds and the carnage that they did. They didn't have the massive technological advantage that we, the west, now enjoy. They just did what they had to do, and most of them talk about staggering forward through machine-gun fire like I would talk about a long-forgotten half-assed fist-fight with some drunk outside a bar. They sure as hell don't seem to have PTSD. I don't mean anything by that--I'm not a doctor north of Paraguay--but it's true that WW2 vets who went through sheer hell seemed to deal with it better than one would expect. How, I've no idea.
As for Orwell quote, I agree, but I think Orwell also made clear his thoughts on the consequences of blind patriotism and militarism. I think a balance is necessary maybe.
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 30 Aug 2006 04:48)
Jon, @ They sure as hell don't seem to have PTSD..
I would like to share a bit from At Hell's Gate (C.A.Thomas) again - maybe it's an answer or if anyone thinks different.. let us know.
"My father, like most of the men in my town, had served in World War II. When that generation talked about war, they didn’t speak truthfully. Unable to touch the deep en profound wounds that war had left inside them, they talked about war like a great adventure. So when I turned seventeen and my father suggested that I go into the military, I didn’t question him. I also didn’t know much about politics; it wasn’t part of my life. Now I understand how important it is to know what is going on in the world. Though no long-term solutions to our worlds problems are achieved through political ideologies, I am impacted by them, as is each of us, and a dear price is paid because of this kind of ignorance. Today I understand that my father and the men and women of his generation were filled with illusions and denial about how deeply they were affected by their military service and war experiences. Having come home as the victors, they were thrust into a role: They became the protectors of our culture’s denial about the profound and far-reaching impact of war – not just on those who fought, but on all of us. This cultural myth obliges my father’s generation not to talk openly or directly about the reality of the individual war experience, and in a sense, for many of them, their inner lives had to be abandoned. Speaking truthfully wasn’t encouraged in them – or in me."
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 30 Aug 2006 13:49)
And then there's "survivors guilt" lots of articles about that
Wikipedia:
"Historian Stephen Ambrose (1992) presents a case of how soldiers in World War II dealt with survivor guilt. When exposed to the deaths of their comrades in combat, soldiers felt a sense of immediate relief when surviving a battle, rationalising the feeling as "Lucky it wasn't me". However, over time they become guilty over their survival to the point where they deprecate their own actions to embellish the actions of the fallen."
This was shown in a scene of Saving Private Ryan - which was one of the best parts (imho) - Stephen Ambrose was also military advisor on that movie. And there was of course "Band of Brothers"
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 30 Aug 2006 14:00)
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