Andy Mcnab
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@ hugging trees is not without danger too
That's what I've been saying for a long time - I can think of a Nick Stone coming to the aid of some huggers, they've got to face a lot of (armed) criminals too ;-)
Xmas trees can hurt? You're not supposed to sit in them!?!
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 19 Dec 2006 22:55)
Sit in them ? No no no Lynn, this little angel is flying around it but after too much glüwwine .. *hick * my aim is a bit .. erm .. off ?
>>By Ninjawoman (Wednesday, 20 Dec 2006 16:42)
Well, ya'll know I've got to be a bit of a prick now and then, especially with the holidays and all.
It just really deeply offends me when people like Andy imply that we've no need to provide education for the poor since they can, after all, reach adulthood semi-retarded and yet learn to read in exchange for killing and/or dying for people who actually did receive a decent education.
World War Two was won by volunteers with jobs--NOT by people with no options or punks facing jail time. Let's be honest here--Andy keeps changing his story about how long he was in jail, but it obviously traumatized him to the point that he, by his own admission, chose the military over whatever he was enduring there. At no point in "Immediate Action" does he state that he realized it's actually wrong to steal from others. He was a little prick who got arrested, and ended up a big prick who actually proved useful to his masters.
I admire Andy for many reasons, but he ain't my hero, and he has turned his back on the people he came from by ignoring their plight until they're old enough to carry a gun.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 21 Dec 2006 03:00)
I only agree with the prick part..but I still love you Jon "for many reasons" ;-)
I'm sure there are 1 or 2 things wrong with McNab, if not it would make him God.
Oh and that reminds me of a joke I still had on shelf:
An awful car crash, Andy, Duncan Falconer and Michael Asher, in the other car die and they have to face God
God explains they have to tell them what they believe in and why they think they deserve a place with Him in heaven
Duncan says that he believes in protecting lives and that he’s real passionate about it.
That’s very good, answers God, you deserve your place here…..
....and you Andy, he asks…
Andy explains to Him that he believes in writing and reading and that everyone should have the opportunity to learn to read and write.
Very good! answers God, please take your place here.
Then he looks at Michael with questioning eyes.
And Michael says:
”I think you are sitting on my chair"
Now Just for Jon it's interactive, you may swap names to your liking ;-)
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 21 Dec 2006 10:28)
Great joke, but...I dislike Chris Ryan because he thinks he's God...I dislike Andy because he's willing to work for the Devil.
At any rate, they're both better men than me and knowing of them and reading them has made me slightly better than I was before.
So thanks Andy, and thank you to everyone here who keeps this board going.
I will be thinking of many of you on Christmas, and wishing you and yours the best.
>>By Just Jon (Saturday, 23 Dec 2006 02:16)
Ditto Jon,
and Happy Christmas to F Troop and to Andy and all your families blablabla :-)
And (can't help it).. appreciate the good, not the goods!
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 23 Dec 2006 12:30)
Ditto your ditto, and raise you a quote...
"... I will honour Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year. I will live in the Past, the Present, and the Future. The Spirits of all Three shall strive within me. I will not shut out the lessons that they teach. With warmest wishes for a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! ... And so, as Tiny Tim observed, 'God Bless Us, Every One!' "
As always,
with love,
:oD
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 25 Dec 2006 15:23)
Christmas is the perfect time to discuss the similarities between Andy and Jesus. I'm not saying Andy is the second coming, but then again I've got my copy of "Immediate Action" stowed with my crucifix, shotgun, and the rest of my "rapture" kit. Anyway, here goes...
Questionable lineage: Jesus born of a virgin, Andy born of a Greek with some Native American blood thrown in. It could be argued that neither one had a clue who their father was.
Born in a manger: Well, Andy wasn't born in a manger, but the minging steps of some hospital is an equally crappy place to begin one's life.
Early Miracles: A young Andy miraculously moved other people's money and goods from their possession to his.
John the Baptist: Well, my name's Jon and I'm saying the dude's the Son of God, so there you have it.
A Friend to All: Jesus was willing to hang around with whores, and based on what I've heard, so was Andy. So forgiving is Andy, in fact, that I've heard he actually SOUGHT the company of whores occasionally!
Preaching the Gospel: Other SAS writers have commented that Andy "had an opinion on everything." Whether its the war in Iraq, women's undies, or foreign travel, Andy preaches the truth as he sees it.
Gathering Followers: There are some weird habitual drunks who hang out with Andy. There were some weird habitual Jews who hung out with Jesus.
Crucified: Jesus is famous for getting captured and nailed to a cross. McNab is famous for getting captured and stating clearly that he would not admit it if he got nailed in the ass by his Iraqi captors.
Reborn: After his trials, Jesus went to live with God. Andy hooked up with a hot aerobics instructor. Both are experiencing a bliss I will never know.
Salvation: If I know I'm gonna die, I'll call on Jesus. If I have a chance to get out of it, I'll call on Andy and use what I've learned to kill the bastard who's trying to kill me.
So there you have it. Andy might not be the son of God, but he's at least God's cousin. You can buy my Andy McNab devotional candles on Ebay.
Merry Christmas to all!
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 25 Dec 2006 21:13)
Good news everyone...No need to wonder if I'm a leftist, pacifist idiot...Andy McNab's social theories are being tested right here in the U.S. As it turns out, over 26 percent of the U.S. military's 2006 recruiting class FAILED TO GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL. This is after they raised the maximum new-enlistee age from 35 to 42, by the way. Oh, and increased the number of "waivers" for little problems like habitual drug/alcohol abuse, felony convictions, violent misdemeanors, etc...
According to Andy, these angels will be educated and return to society as assets to their communities--despite the inconvenient facts we keep reading about psychological problems among vets and the chronic unemployment they earn along with their badges.
Just to clarify this for everyone, anyone in the U.S. can quit high school, take an "equivalency exam," and then go to very-low-priced local colleges (even at night) and work their way towards a degree. At no point in that process does one need to get shot at or kill women and children. In many states, these colleges offer free tuition and books to low-income people (I know, I took advantage of it), so there's NO cost involved.
Andy writes good books and the life he chose worked out for him, but he's not one to listen to when it comes to helping the poor and under-educated.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 28 Dec 2006 03:46)
Should the 28th of December be correct (source Wikipedia) then I'd say Happy Birthday Andy!
Jon, if the US keeps losing soldiers in Iraq then it's 'elderly, children and dogs' being recruited soon enough....anything for the War on Terror. Happy New Year! To those who make it.
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 28 Dec 2006 17:48)
Hi all, long time no speak. Good to see the message board is still running!
Before anything else, I haven't read Recoil yet so let me know if there are going to be any spoilers!
>>By Ignaty (Thursday, 28 Dec 2006 23:13)
Hey Ignaty! Nice to see you back here :-)
And why haven't you read Recoil yet??
>>By Lynn (Friday, 29 Dec 2006 11:54)
Hey Lynn, of course I would have read Recoil as soon as it came out but I knew my mum was going to give it to me at christmas, so I was stuck for a few months! Had to catch up with the Chris Ryan books instead (Ultimate Weapon, Blackout). I read Agressor last year, thought it wasn't too bad. Unfortunately the year before I thought Deep Black was pretty bad to be honest. The blurb for Recoil sounds promising though, so fingers crossed!
>>By Ignaty (Friday, 29 Dec 2006 14:02)
Well your mum sure knows what good gifts are ;-)
Happy reading !
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 30 Dec 2006 13:44)
Happy 2007 to you all in advance of the big day.
Sorry this isn't Andy-related but I seem to remember the original conversation on this was on this board not t'other. Do any of the long-timers on here remember a memory lapse years ago about eyes tattooed on bottoms in a CR book? Well since I've been a good girl this year Mr Beth got her a signed book from Santa (Kremlin Device - weird choice, but can't fault him for the thought and the action!) - and they are, the tattooed eyes on the bottom, right on the first page. Mystery solved. Jeepers, I'm off to trough another mince pie and change my name to Daphne......
Beth
>>By B.A.B.E.S (Saturday, 30 Dec 2006 18:28)
To repeat B:
Happy 2007 to you all, I have no inspiration for something more creative ;-)
The first post here - page 1 - was 26 Jan 2003. Wow
Long time :-)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 1 Jan 2007 23:28)
Little snippit from Timesonline article "Television: AA Gill: Boys just want to have fun, too"
Apparently, we are, according to the BBC, entering a new golden age of boy books. Return of the Hero (Thursday, BBC4) was a page-turner of a documentary for those of us with a streak of pluck. The new boys’ authors are a funnily intense, rather nerdy lot and include the nerd’s nerd, Andy McNab, who still insists on being filmed in silhouette, not so much as a military imperative, but as a pantomime cloak-and-dagger piece of salesmanship. I’ve actually met McNab, and he’s a perfectly nice bloke. He’s just 3ft tall, and looks more like Snow White’s little helper than Bulldog Drummond.
Can I be Snow White? Ok, hardly realistic, but how much of it is the above?
nerd's nerd?? hehe
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 2 Jan 2007 00:03)
Forgot link - here's full article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2101-2516322,00.html
>>By Lynn (Tuesday, 2 Jan 2007 00:21)
Hi all,
.........at ease, Lynn.
Back in the frame now, trying to work off that xmas turkey and minced pies! Hope everyone had a good Christmas.
Just a quicky.......as they say.........to give a hello to everyone.
Regards,
Reg
>>By Reginald (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 15:47)
Ahh Reg !! :-) Nice to see you back, happy NY to you too!!
>>By Lynn (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 20:43)
Reginald ! Always happy to see a friendly and familiar face here.. even if it is for a quicky ;-)
Take care in losing those turkey pounds, you never know when you wish you stll had them.
>>By Ninjawoman (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 00:14)
Been re-reading 'Soldier Five' because I got it for Xmas, found that I recalled little of it and really enjoyed returning to the B20 issues that brought me here originally. You know, McNab comes out of the story very well, he was obviously a very good soldier much respected by his men. As this book claims to be the whole truth, and assuming you have read the various attempts to debunk the original book; Ratcliffe, De la Billiere, and 'The Real Bravo Two Zero' by Michael somebody, it remains a largely truthful account by McNab (though serious doubts about Ryan's account emerge, though there were no other witnesses during his escape). Ratcliffe castigated Andy for not taking a vehicle by choice, well it turns out there weren't any to take, and Michael ? states that there were 'no yellow cars in Iraq'!!, well Mike Coburn says it was a yellow Dodge taxi, so there. The latter chapters describe the legal battles to get the book published, the MoD claimed it was breaching security; read it and despair. Wish he could have commented on how the others achieved publication unmolested though.
>>By camban (Monday, 8 Jan 2007 12:35)
Hi camban,
Nice post and I agree with you, McNab I feel was well respected by many that actually knew him at the time prior to and during Granby in 1991. My personal views are "hats off" to McNab and Ryan for trying to capture the atmosphere and often hardships of their time in 1991 for the readers of their books. I say good on them for writing about their accounts of operational life in B20. They have worked hard during their service, both endured considerable hardships while in Iraq and now its payback - well- done chaps. Most people will know that while writing their accounts, though numerous facts will be highlighted, for a novel, some elements of these points would indeed be "flowered up", necessary to keep the reader glued to the book. However it should be remembered that such things do not detract the fact of their account. There is probably some element of jealousy between Michael Asher and other individuals who were not party to the Road Watch North patrol lads and their exploits and maybe the particular debunking of B20 by them is part of that jealousy and wanting to claim some of the lime-light.
Ryan's account may be discussed more by some but however you look at it, to friends that knew him at the time and the extent of his injuries sustained while on the run, post-verified by medical examiners, he endured physical hardships way beyond most soldiers could even think of.
Another point if I may. While serving during the Gulf conflict in 1991, we all certainly saw yellow taxis, though don't know what type they were.
Also had the pleasure of meeting "Dinger" from B20 just before Christmas, gracing our barracks with a surprise visit............outrageous !!
Regards to you all,
Reg
>>By Reginald (Tuesday, 9 Jan 2007 19:15)
Wow, so I can write my autobiography and put that bit in about shagging the crap out of Queen Elizabeth, just to keep the reader interested.
You guys are like girls..."Oh, yes, he lies to me, but he's so cute while he does it!"
Just out of curiosity, how dangerous does the mission need to be to make it okay to lie about it?
Or, what unit does the liar need to be a part of to make you feel honoured to be lied to?
Reg, you might as well claim you personally hung Saddam. Every chick here will either praise you for it or make excuses for your lack of veracity.
ANDY MCNAB KILLED HITLER!
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 00:21)
BTW, I respect Reg and Dinger and wish I was half the man either of them are. My problem is, SOMEONE is lying about the B20 mission. To say it doesn't matter who's lying because it makes for better reading--to me, that's an insult to the men who died. Then again, people like me who prefer our wars on the XBox are an insult to the men who served, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
>>By Just Jon (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 04:33)
Maybe we should ask Mark Lucas how these things go.. cause books can be written but the main purpose is that the books are then sold...by the plenty preferably.
Did Dinger still have his 'ever-present rollie'?
>>By Lynn (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 13:04)
President Bush is the lair about Hitler and B20...And he lied about there really being a hurricane Katrina! Damn him!!!
>>By My Point (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 18:46)
I think many people will have their views on the B20 patrol and their interpretation of what really happened during the exploits of these chaps. Only the lads who participated in the patrol will know the real account, others can only but summise. Ryan certainly contradicts McNab's account and vice-versa in part but also by and large generally supports his former colleague's account. Ryan can only stipulate specific early events as most of his own account is based upon when he obviously split from the patrol and was on his own. Michael Asher contradicts much of Ryan and McNab's account but must be remembered that he was not present within the patrol. He was not even a regular professional soldier. Many discuss him as a SAS veteran but he only served within a part-time Territorial Army reserve SAS Regiment - as we like to call it - SAS (Saturdays and Sundays). Though Ryan started life in the SAS Reserve Regiment, through determination and required-character, he did undertake and pass regular 22 SAS Regt selection and made a life within the regular British Army as a professional soldier. Michael also claims that Vince Phillips was vilified by Ryan and McNab and that he was branded a coward. Both Ryan and McNab agreed that fundamental operational errors were made by Vince and there is nothing wrong with saying that. It is difficult however when that said person sadly went on to lose his life but, in good ol' Hereford tradition, there is no fuddy-duddy in speaking one's mind, no matter what the occasion. A key point to remember is that if some errors were made in the patrol and in which may never be forgiven by others, these errors were made during the patrol's operations and only then. Views concerning Phillips reflect just that time. Outside of this time-frame both Ryan and McNab thought Phillips as being a totally professional soldier, certainly not a coward and totally worthy of being a Hereford lad - Vince would not be at Stirling Lines otherwise. Not sure if anyone's interested but in the past, Dinger has spoken to us about such things and with what he is doing now, some things of which will remain confidential but other things explain how he thought both Ryan and McNab's accounts were largely factual and that he was in a position to say that as he experienced it. All three think Vince was a serious top soldier, certainly not a coward and all-round nice guy. Regards to certain errors being made in B20, not wishing to detail out of professional courtesy, in general, Dinger's views are of McNab's. Apparently, though both obviously busy, Ryan and McNab are still good mates and speak to each other when they can. McNab has spoken to Dinger on numerous occasions.
In Dinger's words, "is it really important about every detail in a book? At the end of the day, we all got f**ked up and it was f**king horrendous for all of us. We tried our best and coped with what we had. Let some other f**ker try and experience what we did and see if they could cope".
Well, on that last note I bid you my regards,
Reg
>>By Reginald (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 20:07)
Thank you, Reg, nice to have you back posting again! And very nice to hear first-hand about Dinger's perpective, even he seems to be a man of few words. ;o)
Your post brings up one thing that always gets me, tho, whenever I read comments having to do with what's been written about Vince Phillips. Obviously, I've read McNab's "Bravo Two Zero" and Chris Ryan's "The One That Got Away", as well as Mike Coburn's "Soldier Five" -- in fact, I've re-read them a few times too over the past few years so I consider myself rather familiar with each of their versions of events.
So here's a challenge:
Can anyone cite any sentence, any comment, anything at all anywhere within McNab's account of events in B20 which even remotely constitutes criticism of Vince?
(Betcha ya can't!)
>>By am-i-binned (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 22:47)
(Yawn) Isn't 280 pages of this more than enough?
>>By nonyeb (Wednesday, 10 Jan 2007 23:21)
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