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I don't suppose it's occured to Mr. Ignorant.1690 that it may be the culture that has a greater influence on people than religion? Muslims here: don't really stone women to death for sex before marriage - Somalia on the other hand, where there is lack of education, government control, high crime... I could go on. The trouble with muslim extremists is that they are cut off from the rest of society - in Pakistan alone they control a huge area probbaly the size of Scotland. And if you bring up children to hate, they will hate. They don't think about it, it's just what they are brought up to think. And if you took a look at the news recently, you may read about a lot of bombings in Pakistan - done by these same extremists... except they're not killing *Us* they're killing *Them* (Just to put it in terms you understand).
And remind me what the Christians did again back in the day? Crusades? Mormons? Even fucking Scientologists! If humans want to hate, they'll find a name & cause to disguise it.
>>By Tchock (Thursday, 26 Nov 2009 16:25)
Tchock,
With age comes maturity....I thought. Comparing the Crusades to Iran's sponsorship of Int'l Terrorism...only a Leninist would embrace that conclusion. However, if my parents were Leninists perhaps I'd be that mistaken also. Muslim fanatics are the issue now...learn to focus.
>>By lv2read (Saturday, 28 Nov 2009 17:02)
<With age comes maturity>
Yeah I thought that too. Perhaps it'll settle in when you reach 70?
Your post makes me smile. Why should we even bother? Why should anyone try & change the opinions of a sad old man from a rich estate on the West Coast of America who has no desire to see what the world around him is truly like? What is it worth to anyone reading this if you change your mind, if you see the light? You're one in six billion people on this planet and you don't matter anymore than I do. It's not people like you who are going to make a difference in the world. It's those who have seen the world for what it is: who can judge themselves & their opinions & beliefs as critically as they do everyone elses.
Iran is thousands of miles away from your comfy backyard. What do you care about the politics of it? And if you want to start critising the nations of the world, you may want to start with your own. But we've been over that. We've been over everything. You don't listen because you don't want to listen - so why should we waste a second more of our time on someone who is not mature enough to change his mind.
>>By Tchock (Saturday, 28 Nov 2009 19:05)
Tchock,
Why should we care about Iran's policies? Now that's mature.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 29 Nov 2009 21:42)
No, I meant why should *you* care, and why should *we* care what you think?
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 29 Nov 2009 23:06)
I bet JJ is the kind of person who plays Call of Duty and argues with his one friend about which is the best gun. I bet he reads Andy McNab books. Twice. Fucking boring macho fucker. And don't criticise me for insulting you personally either, after you call someone a pussy. And you said nothing whatsoever relevant to the quotes P.E. cited. Logical thought my ass.
Let's talk about George Orwell.
>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 2 Dec 2009 02:23)
Seconded!
>>By Tchock (Wednesday, 2 Dec 2009 02:33)
I'm currently reading "Why I Write". Well actually the essay "The Lion and the Unicorn". Very enlightening, even though it's specific to the time it was written (during WWII).
>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 2 Dec 2009 02:50)
Well the kids take over now....not so fast. Tchock and Flagg have spent too much time in front of their video machines....which can't respond. Kids, the issue is Iran and Muslim extremism and the entire world is struggling with it. The UK, Anerica and the Free World is standing firm. If either of you represent the next generation of leadership, Amertica (again) will have to play an exaggerated role.
>>By lv2read (Saturday, 5 Dec 2009 17:49)
I'm sorry, Free World?
And if you want to know about Muslim Extremists, shall I tell you about how my boyfriend's best friend and his family almost got caught in an attack in which several teenage suicide bombers threw grenades into their local mosque, then opened fire & then blew themselves up. The reason why my boyfriend's friend's family escaped? Their son was playing those shiny video machines & were late for Friday Prayers. Three of my boyfriend's former classmates weren't so lucky. How many people, exactly, have died from Islam
ist Extremism in the so-called Free World? Bugger all compared to the scores being killed on a daily basis in the same places you regard in one big sweeping generalisation as "The Enemy".
The Taliban doesn't affect America. It affects the countries that control the oil. The Big Guns in America don't give a fuck about those who are really suffering - because if they did, I reckon they'd try & write off world debt & perhaps do something about African Crime Culture, poverty & the insurgency in the places that lack fossil fuels.
And it's spelt America. It's just above Central America & beneath Canada, if you're interested. The capital's Washington DC. The President is Barak Obama. 37 million people in that country can't afford Health Care Insurance.
>>By Tchock (Saturday, 5 Dec 2009 20:36)
Some of you really need to pull your heads out of your asses. I hate Islam precisely because it's a violent, hate-filled ideology (on top of being nonsense, just as Christianity is). I don't play violent video games and while I do read Andy McNab, I do it with a strong sense of irony. Yes, PlanetEar, Flagg, and Tchock are pussies, but that doesn't mean I want to physically attack them, or that I assume I'd be successful in doing so (though yeah, probably I would).
They're pussies because they see violent fanatics and their first instinct is to blame themselves and their respective countries for incurring the Muzz-Slimes wrath.
I think anyone who believes in an invisible man in the sky is seriously deluded, but at this point in history Muslims just happen to be the most dangerous of the lot. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.
And Tchock, the Taliban did affect America in a small way when they killed a couple thousand of our citizens. But my beef's not with the Taliban. It's with Muslims in general and I admit that. Every time a Muslim dies, the world becomes a little bit smarter and safer. Here's hoping the world gets REALLY smart next year!
>>By 1690 (Tuesday, 8 Dec 2009 01:38)
Thank you, I now feel a whole lot better about myself. For although I may have many flaws, at least I do not see the world through your eyes. Your statement says all that needs to be said about the kind of man you are.
N.B
Taliban.... Al Queda..... *different things*.
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 8 Dec 2009 02:57)
Oh yes, I'm sorry Tchock-sucker. The Taliban merely harboured and aided Al Queda. Totally different.
Just so we're clear, you're cool with supporting terrorism, but you're such a born-and-bred coward that you see a huge moral difference between flying the planes into buildings and say, paying for the tickets?
You're fucking useless, you stand for nothing. I have more respect for Osama bin Laden than I do a worthless human being like you.
What I don't get, though, is why you cave in to real enemies who intend to kill you, but you're not willing to "surrender" on a message board. Be consistent. Blame yourself every time I tell you what a piece of shit you are, and try like hell to find a reason I hate you. You know, understand me. Be sensitive and enlightened. Surely you must have done something to make me hold you in contempt, it couldn't possibly be that I'm just a prick. Right?
>>By 1690 (Tuesday, 8 Dec 2009 04:34)
<it couldn't possibly be that I'm just a prick. Right?>
Actually, I think you've got something there.
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 8 Dec 2009 08:38)
I'm actually glad to hear you say that. You've acknowledged that it's possible some people might just be evil. Would you be willing now to consider the possibility that people who talk easily-influenced young men and women into blowing themselves up and taking others with them are likewise evil?
You're willing to say some random dude on a message board is a prick, but you're not willing to say the same about Muzz-Slime idiots who want to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their religion?
>>By 1690 (Thursday, 10 Dec 2009 23:21)
I believe that everything has a reason. Yes, there are some evil bastards out there who are irreprably bastardy & there's nothing that anyone can do to change who they are. But no one is born evil - that is too simplified for me.
Your views on Islam?
Well, there ain't no man in the big blue sky for me either. I do tend to hate religion at times. It has been used as a tool for centuries to control people. I think that's what it will always do. But I tend to think of it as less to do with any god than more to do with humanity. I know a lot of muslims - and my general consensus is that they are muslims by default. They are brought up in a world surrounded by their religion. We used to be like that, many decades ago. Their parents were muslims and their parents before them. Most muslims have probably learnt all they know of the Quran & their religion from those who have taught it. I know very few muslims who have actually read the book, and I highly doubt that this isn't a popular occurence in today's modern world. It's humanity to accept what we are brought into - many choose to question the world around us as we hit puberty and become adults. Many do not. Many are swallowed up by the world. Whether this is right or wrong I am not going to comment - it just happens. All I can say is - Hitler's Germany. Look what denial & propoganda can do.
So when you talk about Muslims, it seems to be that you do not know what you are talking about. I know bits & pieces about the religion - most of it seems to me to be mainly based on lies, rumours & fairytales... and yes it does scare me to see women trapped in Hijabs that they believe to be good for them. Yes it does scare me to see several thousand (millions?) of people running round a big black box in Saudi Arabia. Yes it does scare me when my friend tells me that they must support charity so that they can please the Almighty Allah.
Are they harmful? Perhaps only to their minds. But narrowmindedness is not exclusive of muslims - as we should all know. They will tell their children to pray five times a day, to stave themselves during September.
And then you'll get the odd idiot who tries to have the best of both worlds. They come over to Britain from whichever country they're from originally. Perhaps one or two generations of living here. They'll be taught their principles by their parents: they'll happily live next door & buy in to the West - but then they'll turn around & say to their friends how disgusting it is to live here. How all the women are tarts, how we're just an immoral society. I've heard them say it - it's not uncommon. Sure they'll get the arranged marriage or whatever, but they'll sleep around with the tarts they look down on. These are the ones suffering the Identity Crisis. Are they british? Are they.... Arabic... Pakistani?
And then you'll get the bastards. The ones who'll happily blow themselves up wherever they were told to. You'll get the bastards organising the kidnap of children to be forced into doing it. You'll get the bastards who'll stone women to death for having sex before marriage. Now these bastards, I wish were dead. But how many of the bastards are bastards of their own making? How many of the choices have been coerced upon them, or indoctrinated?
What brings a man to believe that he'll be drowned in naked virgins when he reaches heaven if he blows up a school or a mosque?
Poverty, lack of education? Probably. A bit more? Brutality. They've seen it happen to them by the same authorities that they hate? They've seen their families rightly or wrongly killed by war and fighting. No one caught up in the mess has all the story. When they see their village stormed by US, UN, British... whatever troops... maybe they don't understand, whatever.... but once they're village is destroyed, family members dead...hatred can turn to revenge.... too easily.
I'm not making excuses for them. Everyone has choices to make in life - but they'll always be reasons behind those choices.
Yes you honestly will gets bastards out there who don't give a shit about human lives. But you *must* distinguish them from the manipulated, the tainted, the confused and the goodwilled people of this world. Not to sound soppy, but you can't make sweeping generalisations about a whole religion.
I may dislike Islam - as much as I dislike any religion. It is a tool. But you cannot deny that they morals we live with these days have not come from our christian roots. For most, religion just provides a tool to enforce these moral beliefs & to not freak out at the thought that we're just insignificant in the whole entire grand scheme of life, the universe & everything.
You & I , 1690 may not need a god to justify why the sky is blue - but for some... they may need that....
And a direct answer to your question
<you're not willing to say the same about Muzz-Slime idiots who want to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their religion?>
Look at the news - and the sad fact is that those bastards don't go around killing those who don't believe in their religion.... they'll kill muslims alright - they have... daily... they'll kill anyone who they believe isn't the *perfect* muslim. And what is that, I may ask you? What does that remind you of?
"And the Germans kill the Jews
And the Jews kill the Arabs
And the Arabs kill the hostages
And that is the news...."
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 13 Dec 2009 02:48)
Tchock,,,religion being the opiate (sp) of the people. Karl Marx would be proud of you. When wqill you ever grow up? Communist/Marxist idiology is all but dead and buried....you are existing the past. Maybe Scotland has some apologists left...but they don't count fo anything.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 13 Dec 2009 21:10)
Tchock, I apologize for arguing with you in a manner not befitting your intellect and maturity. I think we are actually in agreement to a large extent; my singling out Islam as a particularly-dangerous religion seems to be the sticking point. I realize there are political forces at work behind the more dangerous side of Islam, and I certainly am aware of the West's shameful attempted colonization and exploitation of the Middle East.
That being said, Islam is far more dangerous to humanity as a whole than any religion has ever been--and I acknowledge that this is in large part due to the fact that Medieval Christians didn't have access to weapons of mass destruction.
>>By 1690 (Monday, 14 Dec 2009 05:00)
This is posted to no one in particular - just fitted perfectly to this, some how.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s
>>By Tchock (Tuesday, 15 Dec 2009 07:08)
Brilliant! Not being sarcastic, that's good shit.
>>By 1690 (Wednesday, 16 Dec 2009 00:35)
I really feel like an ass, Tchock, for insulting you. As I said above, that beat poem is freakin' great, I've shared it now on FB, Twitter, my own site, etc.
The scary part is...What if Flagg is likewise kind of cool, and here I've been a right prick?
Just kidding, Flagg's definitely a cunt.
>>By 1690 (Wednesday, 16 Dec 2009 00:57)
You gotta love a bit of Tim Minchin! He's done loads of other amazing stuff - do check out "10 foot Cock & a few hundred virgins" for a song about God & Anal Sex.....
And Good news! The Christmas Number One for Music this year for the UK is....................... Rage Against the Machine - Killing in the Name Of! Brilliant!
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 20 Dec 2009 21:58)
Tchock, have you heard Minchin's Christmas song? It's called "White Wine in the Sun," and I have to admit, it'll bring a tear to your eye if you're the least bit sentimental. Available on itunes.
Fucking awesome about Rage Against the Machine, that's great!
You know, this has taught me maybe I should treat people on the internet as I would in real life rather than just assuming everyone's a prick and an idiot.
Lesson learned. I even apologize to Flagg.
>>By 1690 (Sunday, 20 Dec 2009 22:14)
White Wine in the Sun - oh god that brings a tear to my eye every time! It's so beautiful.. and so simple! I want to download it - but my itunes gets confused because apparently I registered that I live in America, but well... unless everyone's been lying to me my whole life, I quite clearly don't. Such a beautiful song....
Yes - it was quite a substantial campaign here in the UK to get them number one. For the last five years the christmas number one has been the X Factor winner - (You may have heard of Simon Cowell? The judge) and every year it's the same bullshit cover of song by someone else... last year they butchered Hallelujah... this year they were trying to convince people that singing a MILEY FUCKING CYRUS song was a good idea... I think that was the last straw to be honest. We all got a bit fucked off of the churned out one-hit-wonder artists who's talents were just the puppet strings of their managers.
Hmmm.... I would treat people on the internet with caution. They're mainly either fourteen year old's or jumped up little shits who have got it into their head that they're important.... Sometimes they're both. 0.25% are people you want to talk to. I think this is roughly the same statistics in "reality".
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 20 Dec 2009 23:22)
Alright 1690, truce. Actually, my opinions have changed a bit since the golden age of Jack board. I am pretty much in agreement with everything Tchock said, and part of what you said.
I can't say I have anything against Muslims, just against Islam. See, in my experience, a person's religion has very little impact of what kind of person they are. That's the way things are among people I hang out with; I realise it might not hold true for the world of politics and warfare. If you haven't read The God Delusion, I suggest you do, although it probably won't tell you anything you don't know. But maybe the most important thing Dawkins does is point out the fallacy that Islam and Christianity are basically good, and the extremists (whether middle-eastern suicide-bombers or Texan televangelists) have some twisted, corrupted version. The fact is the Koran and the Bible both contain extremely violent passages. Both are highly self-contradictory. Most modern western-world followers of both religions ignore the nasty bits and live their lives by the nice bits, which is great and very convenient *morally*, but *intellectually* it's a completely arbitrary decision and that's what gets me.
I agree Islam is dangerous. Whether the world would be better off without it or whether certain people would find other excuses to wreak havoc, who knows?
As for the Christmas number 1, I'm ecstatic. Also... they're apparently gonna do a free concert next year... Stay on your toes Tchock :p
>>By Flagg (Monday, 21 Dec 2009 15:59)
Wow, I LOVE Dawkins and yes, I own The God Delusion. Again, Flagg, sorry I came across the way I did, on the internet it's so tempting to just be a prick and gratify one's ego...I've ended up missing out on connecting people I agree with for the most part and would probably be friends with in "real" life.
I hope you'll forgive my immaturity this one (okay, third or fourth) time, and know that I do understand I misjudged a lot of people here.
Anyway, happy holidays to you and yours, and I'm really glad that this is turning into discussion rather than hate.
>>By 1690 (Monday, 21 Dec 2009 22:24)
Tchock,
The world would do well to follow America and UK tradition---especially that of separation of church and state.
Any good Leninist knows that religion should be kept apart of politics.....eight.
Back to focus. Is not Iran a destabilizing force in the Middle East? Do we have to pontificate about diverse cultures to reach that conclusion?
Re you and Flagg--when will you mature and chabge YOUR minds?
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 3 Jan 2010 18:52)
I will never chabge my mind, I don't know about those two but that sounds grossly disgusting!
>>By Ctina (Sunday, 3 Jan 2010 23:20)
Ctina,
What is grossly disgusting is what they write. Agqain, we don't have to talk about diverse culturesa to recognize whaat a destabilizing influence Iran is in the Middle East. Israel will survive, Israel will continue to exist as a Jewish state. Period. The one man one vote principal will long be suspended prior to
If Israel did not have UK and American support it would have been destroyed long ago. The Israelis defend themselves and do not assault or kill Arabs without provocation.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 4 Jan 2010 16:40)
allowing any group to overturn the nature of the Jewish state.
>>By lv2read (Monday, 4 Jan 2010 16:42)
The discussion board is currently closed.
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