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Ever heard of individuality?

I reiterate: there's no point in discussing anything if either party isn't prepared to listen or learn from the other. We're tired of your uninformed ignorant opinions; of your blind-adoration of your government, of your unwillingless to adhere to anything we say that disagrees with your opinions; of your constant hypocrisy......

>>By Tchock (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 05:47)

Re the above vitriol....you are at it again...you have done without...settled for less...and know of no other way. Socialism is DEAD...Communism NEVER thrived, yet it did exist....and let me guess...because Communism ALWAYS did poorly...those countries were pretenders...not the real thing. How sad. I find the leadership of Mogadishu more credible than your immature rantings.You are so anti the American style and so afraid of competition, of capitalism...I'm afraid that you'f just blend in AND disappear among the masses. Sweatshops/slavery in Southern California....fantasies that seem real to socialists...American misfits, and the like. Your 5th period political science teacher would be proud of his budding socialist!!! When are you going to join the real world?

>>By lv2read (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 08:09)

You're starting to sound like a stuck record L. Actually, what am I talking about? You sounded like a stuck record from the start. I really do find it hard to believe anyone can be SO superficial, and think it's a good thing. Only in California I guess.

>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 11:01)

http://i.treehugger.com/files/ [delete this space] th_images/burning.car.500.jpg

Does this start to give you an idea of what I think of your last two posts?

>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 11:05)

Well now, I think we've touched a nerve.

And neatly back into the "communism is dead" discussion. Just because you can't cope without your precious little luxuries, doesn't mean the rest of us can't sleep at night through the mere desire to have what you have. You're pathetic, lv2read. Choices, individuality, reality..... three concepts you seem not to grasp. Try looking them up in a dictionary, and while you're at it - look up failure & add "American education system" because if you're the outcome of their hard-work, then we should all be rather worried!!!!

>>By Tchock (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 11:42)

What worries Tchock and Flagg today might be more understandable to them after a few years of labor. Some of us speak from personal experience, while others postulate. I believe it is called reaction formation, i.e. I cannot obtain some things therefore I do no want (desire) them.

>>By lv2read (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 13:09)

No, I think you'll find you're wrong .... (again).
We just get on with things if we can't have what we want - it's called real life, you should try it sometime.

What really worries me is that you are a man who values ambition & success in possessions & personal wealth; who religiously adheres to his government no matter what the circumstances; who believes that his way of life is the only one worth having...

Your arguments all come down to the exact same format that your government has used for decades now. Communism is BAD, socialism is BAD... you believe every word the republicans say purely because they said it. Did you wholeheartedly believe that Iraq was a threat to the West.... and North Korea... and Iran ??? Yes, because your government and the republican media have said so. You cannot expand on these basic elements because, as I have suspected for a long time, you actually don't understand them very well.

>>By Tchock (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 14:02)

And now he knows about Freudian psychology too, wow, what a guy...

>What worries Tchock and Flagg today might be more understandable to them after a few years of labor.

My dad (as an example here) has worked shit jobs most of his life and still believes there's more to life than big cars and a house with a swimming pool in the back garden, so don't try to play the ''you're young and inexperienced'' card on us, because you don't have any idea what you're talking about, any more than you know the meaning of ''reaction formation,'' which, by the way, is an ego defense mechanism often used to explain homophobia (so it's probably more relevant to you than to us).

>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 16:01)

Yeah, but be fair Flagg, your dad didn't grow up in the USA where anything is possible, so he's probably just miffed he couldn't get fancy sportscars, parade around in the hippest threads & show off to the neighbours with all his expensive curios.
You know, I'm pretty sure the saying "money doesn't buy you happiness" did come from somewhere... urban myth & all that.... if lv2read's views are anything to go by, then if you have money - you're happy, and if you don't - you're not American.

It's really amazing how we've managed to deviate from present-day slave trade through communism through to materialistic fake plastic trees within two days. Great job lv2read, you had us all fooled for a second. Now, time to concede that maybe just maybe the west is at fault for most that is going wrong in the third world??? Maybe you might want to just give us a glimmer of hope that some of our *facts* have seeped through that sunk-soaked head of yours & coerced your brain into believing that maybe..... just maybe.... we're actually right about something.

>>By Tchock (Wednesday, 16 May 2007 20:22)

Please repeat after me.....slowly and surely:

I hereby recognize that my (socialist/populist/commune) frame of reference may possibly taint my take on facts which explain the immense success of the American experience.

If you acknowledhe the extreme success of the American path, you'll better understand why you won;t get there going your way!!

Please reread reaction formation---you have that wrong. Tchock.....you said it best on a profile statement in the past....about not chatting with anyone over 35....or is it not trusting (??) anyone over 35, or not listening to anyone over 35??? I could go on, but you probably know what I mean!!

Anyway, I enjoyed both of your posts because you have a valid excuse for knowing no better. However time will serve you well.

And by the way, communism and socialism are bad, very bad. As you dispute that, even radicals your own age stop listening.

>>By lv2read (Thursday, 17 May 2007 01:48)

Senility????

>>By planet ear (Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:27)

I have nothing to say to that L2R.

>>By Flagg (Thursday, 17 May 2007 15:29)

If only, planet ear, I fear he's been like this his whole life.

Lv2read, when I first joined flork I was 15 years old - my mum made me put that up there ... so your point ???

Another man's words said it all....................

"Miraculous you call it babe
You ain't seen nothing yet
They've got Pepsi in the Andes
Mcdonalds in Tibet
Yosemite's been turned into
A golf course for the Japs
The Dead Sea is alive with rap
Between the Tigris and Euphrates
There's a leisure centre now
They've got all kinds of sports
They've got Bermuda shorts
The had sex in Pennsylvania
A Brazilian grew a tree
A doctor in Manhattan
Saved a dying man for free
It's a miracle
Another miracle
By the grace of God Almighty
And pressures of marketplace
The human race has civilized itself
It's a miracle
We've got a warehouse of butter
We've got oceans of wine
We've got famine when we need it
Got a designer crime
We've got Mercedes
We've got Porsche
Ferrari and Rolls Royce
We've got choice
She said meet me
In the Garden of Gethsemane my dear
The Lord said Peter I can see
Your house from here
An honest man
Finally reaped what he had sown
And farmer in Ohio has just repaid a loan
It's a miracle
Another miracle
By the grace of God Almighty
And pressures of marketplace
The human race has civilized itself
It's a miracle
We cower in our shelters
With our hands over our ears
Lloyd-Webber's awful stuff
Runs for years and years and years
An earthquake hits the theatre
But the operetta lingers
Then the piano lids comes down
And break his fucking fingers
It's a miracle"

>>By Tchock (Thursday, 17 May 2007 17:36)

Who wrote that Tchock?

>>By planet ear (Thursday, 17 May 2007 18:10)

Does your Mum know of your respect for Lenin?? Or is that OK with her. Respect for Lenin (at 15) would make many question your upbringing.......not the Planetr Ears, or the Flaggs, or the Sarcoidiots, or the BIAMs, but most folks from the mainstream. So I have a question for you,

What went wrong?

>>By lv2read (Thursday, 17 May 2007 18:59)

No l2r, you don't know from shit about the mainstream. If you venture outside your stupid little suburban happy-families all-American daydream world, things are different. We ARE the mainstream, you're a stubborn old fuck hanging onto outdated ideals.

What went wrong was that any of us ever came here and subjected ourselves to your ignorant bullshit.

Tchock is right, our musical heroes say it better.

Hospitals not profit full
Yet market bulls got pockets full
To advertise some hip disguise
View tha world from American eyes
Tha poor adore keep fiendin for more
Tha thin line between entertainment and war
They fix the need, develop the taste
Buy their products or get laid to waste
Coca-Cola is back in the veins of Saigon
And Rambo too, he got a dope pair of Nikes on
And Godzilla pure muthafuckin filler
To keep ya eyes off the real killer

Cinema, simulated life, ill drama
Fourth Reich culture - Americana
Chained to the dream they got ya searchin for
Tha thin line between entertainment and war

American eyes, American eyes....
View the world through American eyes
Bury the past, rob us blind
And leave nothin behind

Just stare
Relive the nightmare.

>>By Flagg (Thursday, 17 May 2007 22:04)

Your sounding like a cliché lv2read..... my "respect" for Lenin ???
You talk bullshit. Merely because I can read about history & understand it without any bias whatsoever, does not signify I have respect for anyone in the past. If you had any concept of what happened in soviet russia, then you'd agree with me surrounding "communism"... it's just a political/economic idea that has NEVER been introduced (properly) onto this planet. For you see, it is humans that make politics... & where humans dwell, so do brutality, greed and craving for power. Maybe you should try reading a few books on Russia before you can make ANY comment about it to me.

& planet ear... the song was by Roger Waters, on Amused to Death. Fucking brilliant song. "Doctor, Doctor, what is wrong with me - the supermarket life is getting long."

>>By Tchock (Friday, 18 May 2007 01:02)

Tchock
No, no a thousand times No!!! Lenin was a very bad cat!!! Perhaqps you are reading material which glamorizes him. And perhaps you don't have the maturity to recognize that. Or, possibly your mentors may be a little biased....perhaps.

Let me help you and Flagg....there is no help possible for Ear.

1. America is the strongest most powerful country in the world.

2. America is the UK most reliable ally.

3. The American Dream is idolized everywhere.

4. Communism is slavery.

5. SUVs are popular the world over.....nearly everyone desires one.

6. Nobody but nobody talks about gardening.

7. Eveeryone (in the world) desires more luxuries than they have. Difference is, in America, we have

them!!

Re Russia....why don't you tell us about all the freedoms in Russia. You'll find it in writing somewhere. But you'd NEVER understand.....until you're much older.

Now, tell me about obnoxious ignorance---mind yoyu I didn't say stupidity.

>>By lv2read (Friday, 18 May 2007 13:32)

http://www.americansc.org.uk/ [delete this space] online/American_Dream.htm
This was the second result turned up by a google search for 'american dream' (after the Wikipedia entry. Sound positive?

http://www.newdream.org/
This is the third. What's that? You need a NEW American dream???

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099028/#comment
And the fourth. A documentary about exploited workers.

I'm not seeing much idolization going on here. Or is Google, the most popular search engine in existence, also unreliable?

>>By Flagg (Friday, 18 May 2007 14:53)

And a swing & a miss....

lv2read, maybe you're not aware but Lenin was ONE man in the whole of Russia. Let me tell you about Russian politics from 1917 to 1924.

Bolshevik seizure of power - it was widely welcomed. This is because the Provisional Government, lead by the incompetent Kerenski, was collapsing. The First World War was still raging, despite promises by the PG, and there were two power - Dual Power - which meant the Russia was being run by the middle-to-upperclass Provisional Government who had "responsibility but no power" and the Soviets who had "power but no responsibililty". Throughout Russia there were soviets in each town which changed on a weekly basis- it was chaos. After the attempted coup d'etat by a leading general (I forget his name, apologies), the Bolsheviks helped provent the right-wing revolution, and thus were back in favour with the working class of Russia - since the July Days (the attempted revolution by Lenin) the Bolsheviks had been out of favour due to the fact that the crowds were ready for revolution, but the Bolsheviks pulled out (Lenin's theory on revolution was that it should be a team of dedicated revolutionaries who would instagate a seizure or power on behalf of the people, rather than the chaos that had reigned in the February Revolution of the same year).
Trotski was head of the soviet - elected there by the people. He thus had control of the army and hence the Bolsheviks were in the perfect position to strike. On the 25th October - 7th November by our Calender - the Bolsheviks seized power. Barely anyone had noticed - Kerenski had woken up that morning only to find Lenin sitting happily in the Winter Palace of Petrograd (St. Petersburg).

Lenin attempted to introduce communism during the Civil War which would start in 1918. War Communism, as it was called, was a disaster with every business nationalised and kept under a watchdog of Bolshevik party members who had no knowledge of how to run a business. The peasants were also hoarding grain, a matter to which Lenin responded by grain requisitioning where all peasants who hoarded grain would be arrested and/or shot. With the failure of War Communism and the outbreak of the Krondstat revolt of 1921, Lenin introduced the New Economic Policy, which was socialism. At first the economy gradually increased as business and production regained to normality - but economy was still below the first world war level - which was one of the factors that led to the February Revolution of 1917. Steadily NEP began to get out of hand with business both private and nationalised going bankrupt. It was a disaster - the rich were getting richer, called NEPmen, and the poor were getting worse off. The nation was polarised. The matter was not resolved before Lenin died.

Now Lenin had a few strokes before he died. The last two (or even three) left him unable to carry out day to day duties in Moscow (the new capital, as Petrograd had been in close proximity to the German front Line). Stalin, as appointed by Lenin in 1920, was the General Secretary. He was in charge of setting out the agenda for Central Committee members, organising all the party "stuff", he hired & fired members of the party. This meant that he could bring into the party those who shared his beliefs, or those who owed him favours... thus he had control of the party. It is a well known fact that every successive leader of the USSR had been General Secretary beforehand, even Yeltsin. It was the perfect position for gaining power. Also since Lenin's illness, Stalin visited him frequently - and he could choose to leave out the commands of Lenin to the other CC members. From the outside, the two appeared to be very close. Stalin even attempted to create his own policy - an idea that Lenin was outraged by.

Lenin had achieved something no other man had achieved. He was intelligent enough to realise that communism was not going to work, and thus he attempted socialism where the freemarket was opened once again. However it was not the party nor communists who ruined the potential of NEP, but rather human beings whose greed outweighed the good of NEP. Peasants hoarded grain which led to starvation in the cities. Russia was near breaking point. In Lenin's last testament it is noted about who he would like to see as his successor. He noted that Trotski was too violent, too brutal and with questionable loyalty for power, Stalin was too incompetent and not of exceeding characteristics for power.....

Stalin had manipulated the country for long before he came into power. Lenin for the most part, was not the leader of Russia. Lenin had an idea of communism - and he believed that the PEOPLE had to change for his utopia to come true. Rightly or wrongly, this is what he attempted to do. In fact, I saw a documentary the other week in which the same was discussed about Tony Blair surrounding Iraq, that he tried to change a way of social thinking.

Freedoms in Russia?
Well under Stalin, they were relatively good. Since Russia was one of the few countries not to be affected by the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the Russian economy was actually rising instead of hitting rock bottom. Stalin had initiated the Five Year Plans which would lead to the transformation of Russia. He increased production by an amazing amount. Cinemas reopened, the Moscow Metro was built which reinstated Russian patriotism..... life genuinely got better for the people in Russia under Stalin, ironically enough. Fourteen million illeterate men and women were taught to read and write, education attendence was increased dramatically - there were books now, films, electricity & lighting. New cities were built out of nothing - Magnitogorsk for instance. That is not to say that there were immense downsides to Russia. There were the purges, collectivisation, famines, indoctrination, censorship.... but people genuinely were happier than they ever had been before in Russia. That is the thing - we can reflect back on history because we never lived it. Hindsight is wonderful in that we will always have it, but when it's the present - and when it is you living in a desperate situation where the next meal is uncertain to happen, when unemployment is high, when a war is going on... and suddenly within ten years your lifestyle has transformed completley. Would you question it - especially when all the news you hear is GOOD news about the government. You are being indoctrinated all the time by your government and you buy every word of it - so you'll know exactly what I mean.

Stalin was just one man inside Russia. He had associates and delegates who had the real power. Ezhov, lead of the NKVD was brought in to be more brutal - he dessemated Russia - declaring quotas for arrests and executions. This is the kind of men that emerge from revolution - it happened in France, it happened out of Germany in the depression, it happened in Russia, it happened in Cuba, it happened in North Korea, in China... in every dictatorship you can imagine. It is never NEVER just one man. That is what your brain can't cope with - because one man can never be the worst - because someone is always following orders from someone else. In soviet Russia Stalin and Molotov may have signed the death warrants for thousands of people, but at the end of the day those orders came from BELOW, and not from above.

I don't have respect for Lenin in that I have respect for my parents or anyone else. But I can understand his actions and I can see the bigger picture. That is what you cannot do - you have been so blinded by the fact that Russia is bad, you simply cannot get over yourself to read a book on the subject and see what really went on. Not all history books are pro-communist you know... try Volkogonov... Rise and Fall of the Soviet Empire - he's about as resentful of communism as you can get.

Now as to the rest of your silly comments.

The American Dream is just something cooked up to keep you idiots happy. Stalin had the same idea..... it worked there too !!!

Nearly everyone wants an SUV. Yes.... that's why most of the media in this country, most of the people I know, most of the people I don't know dislike the idea of them. It's a matter of choice. Some people want to ruin the planet in a big oversized box with wheels, and some don't....

Nobody but nobody talks about gardening. Yes, in the Great America you have hispanic gardeners to do all your dirty work for you !! Feck off lv2read, most people in suburbia have a garden and quite a lot of them garden. It's what they do in their spare time. I'm not interested in it, but they are. Does it bother me? No. Get real, lv2read. I mean honestly, you're really clutching at straws if you're going to argue over who likes gardening & who doesn't.

Communism is slavery.... hmmm.... well yes in a way - but in a way also not. Communism relies on the fact that people don't want more than necessary. Where you would be rewarded with what you need if you work in a (true) communist society, you would never be able to have the chance for anything more. Which is what leads me to your next point.

Everyone in the world desires more luxuries than they have. Well yes, everyone always does want more than they have. That's human nature. Can't deny that. But stop the drivel that you can get everything you want in America, because you clearly can't. It's preposterous that you can even think that just because you have a comfy lifestyle and no worries except "should I buy the Rolls Royce of the Ferrari...." certainly does NOT mean that the rest of the country is in the same position. I think you'll find that many in America are more concerned about financial matters concerning their children, hospitals etc... yes they will go down to the shops and buys stuff - we all like that, yes even me!! But that isn't to say that I want it all... I don't. I don't want what you believe America has to offer. It's all the same shit over here. The only thing is you've got better scenery, cheaper prices, nicer weather, better roads..... You're kind of patriotism is the worst, for no matter what the facts are nor what the opinions of the majority inside your own country, you will repute it no matter what. Whenever anyone is questioned over "what's great about America?" they always respond by the same answers - if they're like you that is.

Freedom of speech.... freedom... err... uhmm. choice to do what you want.... live the American Dream

Except we have freedom of speech over here & we're quite happy with that... & the American Dream is about as real as anything out of Star Trek, but there are a few nutters out there who go to these Star Trek conventions & claim to be fluent in Klingon. I doubt you could describe to the board what the fabled "American Dream" is... because it's so vague that even the most intellectual people probably couldn't understand it.....

Tell me is life so perfect in Long Beach California that you wouldn't dream of seeing the rest of the world ?? Is the rest of this planet so unworthy of your presence because it's just not go the stamp of approval by the stars & stripes of the U. S of A?

>>By Tchock (Friday, 18 May 2007 15:38)

I followed most of what you said until I got to this...

Tell me is life so perfect in Long Beach California that you wouldn't dream of seeing the rest of the world ?? Is the rest of this planet so unworthy of your presence because it's just not go the stamp of approval by the stars & stripes of the U. S of A?>>>

It is unimportant, but Long Beach????

As for the rest, laughable....at least to adults.

I'll summarize for you...

Communism = freedom

Russia not affect by world wide financial collapse in 1929.....now what textbooks are you and Flagg reading?

Lenin is really not so bad....again WHICH textbooks are in your library?

The UK is not really an ally of the UK.....I'll give you a second chance at this one.

And teens don't discuss what is in the ground in their back yard but what is in their driveway. Only Brits would have a nature program on prime time........boring!!

Hope that these comments help someone out there.

>>By lv2read (Friday, 18 May 2007 19:06)

In Soviet Russia, bullshit talk lv2read!!!!

This is so pointless. You read things that aren't there. You've taken, what, four of the things Tchock referred to and responded to them as if she said something totally different.

Maybe you'll do better with mine. Let me post them again.

>>By Flagg (Friday, 18 May 2007 19:22)

Saying no a thousand times won't persuade anyone of your screwed up views. Tchock's comments about Lenin were only EVER based on facts, she got them out of textbooks on a history course at school. Those things are what the UK's education system says about Lenin, not what a couple of communist teachers drilled into Tchock's head as you seem to think. Our education system has its failings (many) but schools at least have access to intelligent, objective textbooks. Maybe in California you're taught that Communism is responsible for all the twentieth century's problem, you're probably taught that Vietnamese children can shoot lasers out of their eyes too, but we don't have that problem in Britain.

1. Being strong and powerful doesn't make you right, or fair, or trustworthy. It just means you can beat the shit out of anyone who disagrees with you, whenever you feel like it (sound familiar?)

2. America is the UK's most reliable ally until UK leaders stop licking American leaders' arses, and stop following them into pointless, badly executed wars.

3. So the American Dream is idolized by starving children in the third world? That's an extreme example anyway because most of the people I know plus thousands of influential contributors to the media in both my country and yours, view the American Dream with contempt, amusement or both.

4. Communism is a way of running a country that doesn't work, just like capitalism. The only reason people like you hate communism so much is because it was capitalism that came out on top last century. If the coin had landed the other way up you would probably be going on about how capitalism is evil and capitalism is dead, and I'd be arguing in its defense.

5. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Why don't you do a survey?

6. What... the fuck.

7. Lots of people all over the world would prefer to have a decent basic standard of living before they worry about luxuries. It's your luxuries that make that standard of living impossible for many people.

>>By Flagg (Friday, 18 May 2007 14:42)

http://www.americansc.org.uk/ [delete this space] online/American_Dream.htm
This was the second result turned up by a google search for 'american dream' (after the Wikipedia entry. Sound positive?

http://www.newdream.org/
This is the third. What's that? You need a NEW American dream???

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099028/#comment
And the fourth. A documentary about exploited workers.

I'm not seeing much idolization going on here. Or is Google, the most popular search engine in existence, also unreliable?

>>By Flagg (Friday, 18 May 2007 14:53)

Now try really, really hard. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm just asking you to read what I've typed - what I've really typed, not what you want me to have typed - and try to form an argument. Not ''Actually you do like big cars and money'', not ''The U.S.A. is the most ideal place to live in the whole wide world'', not ''Lenin, bad'' and not ''Alan Titchmarsh is a poohead'', but an argument, one that has some relevance.

>>By Flagg (Friday, 18 May 2007 19:27)

Apologies - I have only ever looked at your profile once - thought you lived in Long Beach...

If my history knowledge is laughable to adults how come I have got A's in all my exams for history even at the top level, including my dissertation on "Why was Stalin in Power"; given an unconditional to study History the best university for the subject in Scotland ??

"Communism = freedom"

Exactly WHEN did I say that ??

"Russia not affect by world wide financial collapse in 1929.....now what textbooks are you and Flagg reading?"

lv2read, lv2read.... Russia had completely cut itself off from international trade just about - except for tractors... unlike Germany it had no loans to pay back to America... it was free from all financial dangers, and thus it would NOT have been affected whatsoever by the Wall Street Crash.

"Lenin is really not so bad....again WHICH textbooks are in your library?"

Lenin is just ONE man from a whole history of leaders that by 1953 had resulted in the deaths of 20 million lives. Do you really think that one man is capable of such things? Don't you understand? One man can't control the ENTIRE population without the support of MANY... MANY thousands, millions of people. It is ignorant to blame one person entirely.... and it is ignorant to merely cast Lenin off as a tyrant, when in fact he spent most of the "tyrannical years" either paralysed by a stroke or dead.

"And teens don't discuss what is in the ground in their back yard but what is in their driveway. Only Brits would have a nature program on prime time........boring!!"

Firstly, I've never had a discussion with a teenager about cars. There are some teenagers who do this.... but there are some who DON'T. Have you forgotten what it's like to be a teenager..... to have your own mind ??? To have other conversations other about "my cars bigger than your car"???
Secondly - why the fuck are you continuing with the gardening argument? You really must be desperate if this is one of the clinching reasons why America is better than Britain....

Seconded, Flagg. Some relevence WOULD be nice....
Did you agree with ANY of the points I made in my previous post, or did the logical argument confuse you again?

>>By Tchock (Friday, 18 May 2007 19:50)

>>>& planet ear... the song was by Roger Waters

Ta. Given he's pretty much the same age as Lv2bs (and probably rather better heeled) shed an interesting light on some of Mr BS's comments?

>>By planet ear (Saturday, 19 May 2007 02:08)

* doesn't that shed....

>>By planet ear (Sunday, 20 May 2007 14:05)

I did some gardening today, and it was quite rewarding.

>>By Flagg (Sunday, 20 May 2007 23:05)

I'm very fond of my Yukka plant I've had since my undergraduate days.

>>By planet ear (Sunday, 20 May 2007 23:17)

You're all dillusional. You can't like gardening. NO ONE does !!!!

I used to garden a lot when my front lawn was a few feet deep of earth & clay & stuff. But
it's been ages since I last planted something. I remember my whole year at school were made to
put together a hanging basket of flowers - we moaned at first, but when it was all ready & it was in bloom, we were all quite proud.

>>By Tchock (Monday, 21 May 2007 11:47)

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