Jack
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<Tchock aren't you calling it barbaric you watch the execution? Isn't that one of the things JJ said...like people being savage like?? The Iraqi people have demanded to VIEW the execution/ The more you chat with JJ, the more you sound the same!! >
Uhm I didn't actually watch the video - I don't know about you, but watching anyone dying makes my stomach turn.
Any sort of death penalty is inhumane - it cannot be justified. Yes Saddam did terrible things (but we must remember also that there were thousands who followed his orders - one man cannot frighten a whole country.....) and although he may not have deserved life, to kill someone for revenge or so-called justice is wrong. There was no justice. You cannot ever have justice by killing a convicted man. It is barbaric - we who believe we are the civilised indeed..........
Any society or regime where deaths and torture are used as a means of "justice" should be changed - and should not be allowed in the first place. But dammit to hell - I don't think the Americans would be upsetting the Saudi's in any way until the oil runs out..........
It's funny how no one gives a damn about the judicial system of another country until a westerner is due to be on the list, isn't it ??
Lenin - attributes. Well.. he was intelligent, persuasive, a strong leader. lv2read - you know, if I know a lot about Lenin, it doesn't necessarily mean I think he was a wonderful man. I also know that Lenin wasn't running Russia for the last two years of his life - I think you will find that little task came upon Stalin-the-Manipulator... if you read a few books (which doesn't make you a communist by the way) you might understand where I'm coming from. Right now I don't think you have the first clue about Russia - you name-drop and that's as far as your knowledge goes. I might not be a University Scholar and I definitely did not live under the USSR, but I've read and understand a lot more than I think you ever will on the subject.
>>By Tchock (Monday, 1 Jan 2007 19:31)
Quote from Tchock: "Any society or regime where deaths and torture are used as a means of "justice" should be changed - and should not be allowed in the first place." When did Dick Cheney hack Tchock's logon and start posting as her?
Really, Tchock, I agree they SHOULD be changed, but how? I don't believe we have the right to force people to change, all we can do is set an example.
Take the negroes here in the U.S., for instance. Sure, they should quit selling crack, learn to read, bathe occasionally, and stop looking for role models in the chimp exhibit at the local zoo. But to force civilization on them is both racist and feckless. What we can do is embrace our differences, tolerate them, and hope that eventually the negroes "see the light" and become civilized by their own choice, not because we forced them.
As for Lenin--what does it matter? The dude's dead and his ideas failed. You and L2R might as well argue about the Roman Empire.
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 1 Jan 2007 20:37)
Ok, so maybe setting an example is great in some ways - but not in other *more urgent* situations. Shall we just sip tea all day & talk about the weather until the Saudi's & all the other crackpot Islamic-extremist or otherwise regimes say "hang on a tick - we should be more like them!"
I think not.
How many people will die or suffer before that impossibilty ever happens ??
As the "civilised" (if we are even that) we HAVE to take the responsibilty for sorting it out - otherwise no change will ever happen. Military force - the U.S of A style isn't the way - but other ways where there's less chance that thousands will die would be good.
I don't know *what* - I don't think anyone (certainly in power) has any real idea of how to make this come about.
Yeah - I don't get why lv2read keeps on going on & on about Lenin either. And yes, JJ, we really might as well argue about the Roman Empire - but like all history, there are areas & ideas that can still be applied to modern day politics/economics/situations & society - besides, I find it really interesting. But that's just me.
>>By Tchock (Monday, 1 Jan 2007 20:47)
Tchock, it hurts me, too, that so many suffer all over the world. Not just by their own religion/regimes, but by our economic policies. But what can we do? That's the real question, isn't it?
For one, we can NOT buy products produced in sweat shops overseas. We can support the United Negroe College Fund, and teach blacks that they aren't genetically inferior, and thus have no excuse for acting like monkeys.
We can stop the P.C. bullshit and admit that ANYONE who believes in an invisible man in the sky who controls our destiny is a fucking moron. We can admit that Christians are just as stupid as Muslims--the only difference is that Christians in the West are willing to ignore parts of their Bible because doing so allows them to function in society. They can't stone witches and kill poofters as their book tells them, or they'd lose their jobs.
Eventually, the same will happen in Muslim society. Look at how barbaric and stupid Christian "justice" was just a couple of hundred years ago.
Have faith, Tchock. People will continue being hateful, murdering, idiots, but they will eventually get more selective about it.
Also, I agree L2R incorrectly assumed you love Lenin, but you do seem a bit obsessed. Yes, Russia and her history is interesting, and a good choice of specialty study. So's Mexico, which is my area of interest. Doesn't really apply to every argument, is all I'm saying, except that a good taco does indeed make everything better.
>>By Just Jon (Monday, 1 Jan 2007 21:11)
>Lenin - attributes. Well.. he was intelligent, persuasive, a strong leader.
Tchock I don't think those attributes are anything to be proud of. Useful maybe, not admirable.
Take JJ. He knows what he's talking about, he's clearly highly intelligent but he really does seem to genuinely believe all black Americans are savages. JJ, you just... dismiss. Go and listen to some hip-hop or something. I mean you're 35.
>Have faith, Tchock. People will continue being hateful, murdering, idiots, but they will eventually get more selective about it.
People probably said that in Lenin's time and in the Roman Empire too. We, the world's privileged, might as well devote our lives to doing what makes us happy and at least not ADD to the chaos, because things aren't gonna get better.
>>By Flagg (Monday, 1 Jan 2007 23:49)
I believe merely that MOST blacks are savages, certainly not all. That would be racist. The reason they are savages is the lack of education and expectation for them here in the U.S. If you were told it was okay to carry a gun and father nineteen kids out of wedlock and speak in a manner akin to a slow four-year-old, why would you bother bettering yourself?
I'll listen to hip-hop when the "artists" learn to play an instrument, quit stealing white people's songs and scoring a hit by saying "yeah, yeah" over the music, and realize I don't care how big their genitals are or how many whores they've slept with.
Some of the greatest American musicians were black, and it's a shame that that tradition has been replaced by gorillas drooling over a mic.
>>By Just Jon (Tuesday, 2 Jan 2007 21:46)
>I believe merely that MOST blacks are savages, certainly not all.
You're still wrong.
I think you're mistaking modern urban slang for low intelligence, and I think you base your attitude towards a certain style of music on a negative stereotype derived from the worst that music has to offer. How much hip-hop HAVE you listened to? I used to think of it the same way you do - several years ago. Nowadays, I don't listen to it much but I at least accept it as an art form, which is what it is. That's what I meant: you just dismiss things.
>>By Flagg (Tuesday, 2 Jan 2007 23:11)
I have really enjoyed the posts of late. I can contribute a little in the education arena...perhaps.
While a graduate student at Cal Berkeley, I elected to earn some spare change ($250.00 per month) as a graduate assistant in Analytic Geometry and Calculus.....teaching four classes per day five days per week....roughly $3.00+ per hour (US minimum wage then was $1.25 per hour. Trouble is that the State paid once monthly and it was still like being broke most of the time. Very hard to budget and save when you barely had enough in the first place. Not pleading poverty here...parents paid all the bills.
Not to digress any further, I did not enjoy teaching for several reasons:
No one really appeared to care.....and these students were not just the cream of the crop of California high schools, they were the cream of the cream!! Nevertheless, they were not involved...very apathetic to say the least.
The University had strict guidelines for the curriculum; a cookbook approach----you follow this and you'll be prepared for the next level!!! All good and true, yet I tried to convey the joy and fun in learning mathematics.
I would spend time on physics,optics, etc. in order to make the subject exciting and challenging, but no, I was told to stay closer to the syllabus.
Most importantly, I had little or no contact with the students. And, black, white or brown, I believe a little personal attention, caring and humanity goes a long way and (it) can make a profound difference in the students education and future. So, all I got out of the experience was $250 per month. Educators can do so much more.
>>By lv2read (Wednesday, 3 Jan 2007 01:44)
Flagg, you're right about my being dismissive of ideas I haven't explored. It's a personality flaw, getting worse as I age. I used to like rap, so I kind of went the opposite way as you. It just seems like there used to be creative "rap" artists who had intelligent messages and experimented with the music more than they do now, but then again I also think rock died with Kurt Cobain so maybe I'm just getting old. I admit to liking "The Streets," but then that makes me sound even more racist in that he's white.
L2R, you're dead right about modern university education. It's more about the piece of paper than learning, and teachers have to cover their asses or get sued by some idiot who feels thinking is an imposition on his or her psyche. That's why you have Tchock being so stunned and hurt when anyone disagrees with her--I can assure you her instructors will praise any weird theory she propounds, lest they hurt her feelings.
I am related by marriage to a recent Yale graduate who insists the genocide in Sudan is a fiction created by the Bush administration, and his instructors never threw him out of class as I would have. The Socratic method is dead, and everyone is equally right--unless they don't believe everyone is equally right, in which case they're wrong. Good times.
>>By Just Jon (Thursday, 4 Jan 2007 02:53)
You are just getting old. Still it's a credit to your personality that you conceded what I said, rather than vainly struggle against it like some people would have (meaning BiaM). Thanks for that.
I hate the Streets.
Maybe you're right about education there - a bit. It may not be an ideal situation we have now, where students are encouraged to live in a dreamworld for fear of the school being sued, but a set-up where students can be kicked out of class for having unconventional ideas would be at least as bad. Because (and yeah you'll have heard this before but it's a cliche for a reason) who are the school to say what's right or wrong?
>>By Flagg (Thursday, 4 Jan 2007 16:13)
Nah - I'm not stunned nor shocked when anyone disagrees with me
but I may be stunned or shocked by WHAT they say............
I do agree what you're saying though...
I guess in my school it wasn't so apparent - except in English - write the usual drivel & it gave you an A basically.
As for Uni - well again, I have to say that the School of Engineering at my university is different...... But I suppose it comes in the title... you HAVE to be free-thinking (in all respects) to be able to engineer new ideas & technology......
I have to say it's really quite sad what lv2read wrote about the kids' dissinterest. Some of the most intelligent people in my year at high school were completley dissinterested in what the teacher was saying or trying to show them - it was down to a case of "is it in the exam or not?" My physics teacher once completely lost his head at the whole class at their lack of enthusiasm.
Interestingly enough, on the news today the Government announced its new plans for overhauling the education system (in England) which would mean a more personal education. Like usual, however, they got it way wrong saying that national exams should be scrapped & individual ones should be set according to the ability of the child. And of course one classroom (geography) decided to teach the kids in their own style - by drawing pictures (ok people sometimes remember visually) & the next one came along..... musically talented kids should learn by writing lyrics & songs about it.... what is it about teachers that just dumbs everything down ?? Write a song to remember you're timestables might work for primary school kids - but in high school... ?!?!?!
The world has gone mad..........
Education definitely needs revised - all of it. More & more of the time teachers have is spent on bureaucracy instead of teaching & then of course there's all this emphasis on technology & POWER POINT PRESENTATIONS - see that article in "Is it Just Me or is Everything Shit?" by those guys.... it summed it up perfectly. But anyway - teachers don't often teach any more - it's more a case of "here's what you need to know - never mind about truly understanding it"
This post seems a little rushed & nonsensical, untidy & hard to comprehend - sorry.
Re: Rap
Yeah - some of the old stuff (not that I listen to it) used to have messages in it - I guess now it's all about "bling bling" shit & prattling on about bitches & whores..... god I hate it.
>>By Tchock (Friday, 5 Jan 2007 01:11)
Education
....much like reading. People will read on a topic of interest. If a child lives for sports, say he plays 3rd base position in baseball, find him a book on famous 3rd basemen and I bet he'd devour it. And it is good that he reads...and before long his attention will broaden.
In the USA we cannot test children's IQ anymore...we want to believe that all are the same. Very, very foolish. There are whites, blacks and browns by the hundreds of thousands that have minimum wage jobs because they have no skills. They may have graduatyed from high school, but could not survive in the open enrollment (least selective) colleges, and therefore enter the work force with few, if any, skills. Consider that they could have been trained in welding, jig set-up, machining, polishing and others too numerous to mention. But, no, we'd rather expose them to Shakespeare, Da Vinci's art, and other things--I think that they'd rather earn $20-$30/hr than $5-$7.....but the liberals think that we should force feed culture to them!! Any doubt that the conservatives are being listened to now than ever before? Any doubt that Lenin's pandering to the masses is definitely out of vogue at this time? If you don't learn a skill, you WILL be left behind.
>>By lv2read (Friday, 5 Jan 2007 05:31)
>I guess in my school it wasn't so apparent - except in English - write the usual drivel & it gave you an A basically.
You know what Tchock, I hear this so much, all the time, it's a joke. Yeah yeah no one understands exactly what Shakespeare or Robert Browning or whoever is trying to say with all his poncy over-the-top language but as long as we write what the teacher is telling us we get a good grade and blah blah blah. It never occurs to you science type people that maybe they did have SOMETHING to say and maybe you COULD appreciate it if you took the time and weren't quite so cynical. Obviously there's so much more to be learnt from a subject like, say, history, I'm sure you'd be right behind that statement right Steph? Well my experience of history is me sitting in a room and listening to an old man talk about how Tony Blair is a talented politician and deserves our respect even if we don't agree with his actions, and I'm thinking 'And Charles Manson might have been good at Connect 4', or being told not to 'look at world war 2 with modern eyes' and say it was bad, because it was actually necessary/patriotic/just wonderful. I would much rather be in an English lesson.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
As for rap, get Kanye West's latest album - the only hip-hop album I've ever listened to and it's a masterpiece regardless of what else the genre might have to offer. The guy has important things to say about bling and hoes.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 5 Jan 2007 14:25)
Actually, no - that wasn't what I meant at all Flagg.
What I meant was that especially in English we didn't really learn anything - not because people like Shakespeare had nothing to say - but because we were given one of his plays for instance, and told what it meant. I can't recall one lesson where we sat down & actually thought about what he could mean by his words. I very much doubt that there was little difference between essays in the class - all would have come to the same conclusion: what the teacher said. Few looked outside what she said - perhaps its her fault, she was bloody awful (completely uninspiring) - but I would have thought few would know how to. All our schooling lives we've been taught that the teacher will tell us the answer rather than us attempting to find it out for ourselves. Even in the first few years of history it was like this - but by the time I got into my 6th year of history we were researching by ourselves - reading books and articles that maybe our teacher hadn't read - I know that quite of the lot of stuff I personally found out my teacher didn't know about - and the same went for others in my class. That's what I was meaning. Of course Shakespeare (& Robert Browning, although I only know him by name) have something important to say and we should not detract from that thinking that because we don't use the language nowadays, it's meaningless and not worth looking at.
And you like English - so do I, but I also really like physics and history. My only problem with English is the WAY it's taught - no one gets inspired anymore. It's all about the exam.
Individual learning: ok so it might sound all great in theory - but testing to one's own ability ?? If you were to do that - surely you'd get 100% all the time? You say (lv2read) about the disuse of IQ tests in school - we don't do them over here either (in some private schools though). As for this crap that we're not allowed to tell kids they're not good at something or that they've failed. NONSENSE. There was a plan in English schools to get rid of the traditional F means fail method for a more "friendly" way of saying "awwww there there, try again" because kids get upset by it. Personally I'm sick & tired of this - best lesson in life is failure - and if you can't have that, you've got nothing at all. Exams - not everyone's going to get A's - and it should be - unlike the English system (sorry, getting at the English Education system here a bit). If someone gets a B in their exam - well then it might be the best damn result they ever had - and that means something to them. I think we as a society are afraid to say "you're not good at............. but you ARE good at this..........." Again we feel the need to go to university just to prove that we can, not because we want to.
National examinations are the ONLY way to test people at school. Teaching to your own ability - well isn't getting "only" a B in a nationwide sat exam the best you could do ??? Of course there are sometimes when the exams aren't up to scratch - but oh well, how many people are really going to be still crying twelve months after they've got their results ??
lv2read- your point about Shakespeare Vs Plumbers (well, as an example).
No, not everyone's going to go to study English at Uni - but not everyone wants to be a plumber either. In fact - how many people at the age of 16 really know what they want to do when they're older; and how many of them have changed their mind or career path by the time they've reached 21? There are kids out there who would really quite like to be earning a living rather than sitting in school. (Unfortunatley here in Scotland it tends to be more like kids wishing they were on the dole instead of school....) You can teach a trade in school - but how many people want to become a plumber (good money though)? You can only guide people to what they want or are good at.... and at the age of 16 that is a lot harder than one might think......giving them a little culture isn't so bad, lv2read. Whatever "culture" seems to mean these days, I think it's important for us to teach our children to appreciate it - otherwise they'll end up having no regard for it & it will be lost. Personally I'm bored to death by art - but I can appreciate some of the more talented stuff (i'e not the modern crap). I don't think that's education though.........
Kanye West "I'm not saying she's a gold digga, but she ain't messin' with no broke nigga"
No, sorry - can't be assed with that. Give me some Pink Floyd or Radiohead any day.
>>By Tchock (Friday, 5 Jan 2007 21:59)
You know, I think we've arrived at a point where we can stop insulting each other. It's absolutely amazing how different we are but how much we agree on! I enjoy being a dick, but really this conversation has improved dramatically. I'll try to be civil as much as my nature allows me.
English Lit.--I used to sell papers to people in uni, guaranteed "A." Writing is merely a test of your ability to bullshit, and reading, well, it's lost on most people. I can personally attest that the liberal arts are bad for character development if not coupled with a rigorous science and math curriculum. Math teaches us that most valuable lesson--we can be grossly, horribly wrong, despite our feelings or best intentions.
Rap--I couldn't say it better than Tchock did. Kanye West? Are you joking, Flagg? If I said that certain nigger women only want a buck nigger with lots of money as they have no thoughts or dreams of their own, what would you call me? But it's admirable if Kanye says it? People like Kanye West are disgraces to the black community, particularly to the black artistic community which has contributed so much to our American culture. The only niggers in this world are the ones who call themselves that.
Vocational Training--L2R, you've made me re-think my position on this a bit. The question is, at what point is a person deemed more fit for plumbing than Shakespeare? How is it determined? By who?
Anyway, it's really neat that we all agree we want the poor and minorities educated, to have better lives, and yet we're not white-folk-bashing either. Peace, prosperity, happiness--we all want that for everyone, and that's a damned sight more than you can say for most hyper-political blogs. I appreciate everyone here, thanks as always for playing.
>>By Just Jon (Friday, 5 Jan 2007 23:14)
I'll get back to you lot when I'm sober. I'll still defend Kanye West.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 04:01)
Ok, English and History. Sorry Tchock, I jumped to conclusions so I take back what I said. I think we have very different experiences of those two lessons. In my English classes, although there is usually (USUALLY) one meaning to something we are always encouraged to work it out for ourselves.
Tchock, correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine you would be at least slightly annoyed by someone who says Radiohead are rubbish because their song is a boring pop song about a teenager with no self-esteem. You would point out that they have written other songs too, right?
I was thinking about Diamonds From Sierra Leone.
As for Gold Digger, I never said I admire him for those lyrics. I don't need to find lyrics 'admirable', I don't think the lyrics to Creep are 'admirable' while I'm on the subject. I think Gold Digger is clever, funny and isn't supposed to be taken COMPLETELY seriously (but no, I don't know about the man's beliefs about such things). I admire Kanye West for the fact that his lyrics are full of meaning whether it's serious or not, that his music is so rich and imaginative (almost like soundscapes), and that the whole of the album I've heard is - to me anyway this is obvious - totally from the heart and full of emotion.
>The only niggers in this world are the ones who call themselves that.
We were discussing this in an English lesson yesterday as it happens. I have black people have the right to use the word nigger as a mark of pride or whatever. If that's what they want, fine. There's a black sub-culture in America, one in Britain too, and if that word is part of it then fine, it's not offensive in that context. Of course, no black person has to buy into that culture if they don't want to - it's all personal, it's all ok.
I agree, the board has improved recently.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 14:02)
I have*
I think.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 14:04)
Flagg/Tchock
You say that blacks may use the word nigger but others aren't free to use it?? WHO is to says WHOM is free tp use WHAT? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?? The hell with political correctness. I am offended when blacks use the term around me. It's almost like they are throwing it in your face almost daring you to repeat what they are expressing. The sooner the blacks become mainstream, the sooner they'll progress radically in American siciety.
I have an expression describing black english.....obnoxious stupidity.
In the right context??? Where are you two coming from??
>>By lv2read (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 15:04)
No no no. Segregation is one thing, it's not ok. But wanting to force everyone into one big group? That's as bad. We're all human beings born equal, but we divide into sub-cultures too, that's the way it works. Not everyone wants to be mainstream. Now I don't understand or like everything about the black sub-cultures in our countries, I don't like the amount of crime and violence they seem to harbour, but crime and violence are everywhere. I respect sub-cultures, they're natural. And like I said, no one has to buy into them if they don't want to. You can be a Muslim in Britain or America and not actively be part of a Muslim community - beyond praying at the mosque. It's not segregation or anything.
What I mean by the right context is when it's used within the black community, that word is simply not offensive. In fact, it's not offensive if a white person says it to a black person, as long as that black person wouldn't be offended. Nothing is inherently offensive, that very concept is ridiculous. It's offensive if the person you say it to finds it offensive, in which case, don't say it to them.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 16:20)
So, sorry I think I missed something you said. Yes, if you find the use of the word around you offensive, people should respect that and not say it around you - sadly not everyone will do that. If you're talking about the use of the word in the media though, you just have to turn the TV off.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 6 Jan 2007 16:26)
God we're all so phony.
>Yeah - some of the old stuff (not that I listen to it) used to have messages in it
How do you know if you didn't listen to it?
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 02:30)
Flagg
The repulsive language and the trashy rap 'dialog' is beginning to haunt them. We make too many allowances for blacks and--I believe--that only accountability will usher them in the right direction....they may go kicking and screaming, but so be it!! When I hear low class (and even middle class) black women saying mother fucker every other word, it makes me want to vomit.....and we don't call them on it...and we are part of the problem because we just ignore it!!! I feel that the profound majority of blacks may never change. Maybe they don't believe that they can succeed----but I doubt it. You have these 9-10 black boys (young but averaging 6 feet in height) that memorize every word in a rap (and they know that bitch is synonomous with woman) but cannot pass biology or english or history. Sad situation.
>>By lv2read (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 10:57)
I'm not saying I admire those people, I'm saying hip-hop is a valid style of music and an art form whether you like it or not. I think l2r, this time you are just too old (or old-fashioned, it comes to the same) to understand this. You may say I'm too young to understand it but the difference is I'll still be here in fifty years' time. The past, where people didn't listen to music that swears every other word, has already happened. It's over, just like communism. ;)
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 13:12)
lv2read - I know exactly what you mean about the word "nigger", even if it IS said by many black people. It is insulting to their ancestors that they use this word with such indifference, even jest. If they thought maybe for one second what they're grandparents & great-grandparents etc had to endure, they might think twice before using the word. I feel uncomfortable when I'm talking - or even inadvertantly listening in - to someone who uses that word.
How do I know about old rap if I haven't listened to it?
I have friends who like it, and I have inadvertantly listened to it myself - through friends playing it while I'm in the room. They tell me things about it. But I still don't like it.
Swearing in lyrics ??
Well - it certainly gets a bit much. I don't mind it when it's there FOR A REASON - to add passion or something. But when it's every second word (blurring out whatever real meaning of the song - if any) then it just gets plain annoying, repetitive, simplistic and just a good way of selling albums to the kids who think swearing is "cool".
Again, I have to agree with lv2read - to some extent. I can't stand people who swear every five seconds - it's not intelligent: there are OTHER words in their vocabulary, surely? However, it's not just exclusive to one race - black people - but everyone. At my school (ethnic minority population of about four) half the school would swear just for the sake of it - you know "she effin said she effin didn't effin...." blablablabla. It's the same problem throughout the country as well though. And no, these people rarely pass any exams. They'll just go on the dole or if they do get a job, it will be a throw-away one - not one they'll care about, but something to feed the alcohol binge at the weekend. Hmmm... a little harsh? Sadly, I don't think so.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's anything we can do to change this. People do seem to be getting increasingly less intelligent with every year.
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 14:29)
I think it's more than a little harsh, I think it's judgemental and painfully arrogant. So our society has a high number of casually offensive chavs and rudeboys, oh no we don't fit it, well what else is new? Why does everyone insist on responding to it by turning their noses up and sounding like they write for the Sunday Times?
I'm sure there is rubbish, shallow, sexist, offensive music within hip-hop. Maybe it's even the majority, I don't pretend to know. But I have recently discovered that there is also truly brilliant music there, and truly intelligent people. If you lot don't believe me then that's your loss, I know it's the truth and frankly I'm very glad I don't have the same attitude as you.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 15:27)
I'm talking about all forms of music that swear needlessly just to sell records. I don't like hip-hop - but that's just me.
And it's not that they're casually offensive - I'm not really offended by swearing. Swearing like that isn't necessarily offensive: but it is pathetic.
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 15:42)
It's also a part of our language and definitely has its place, and its uses. We've had a different upbringing and swearing really doesn't bother me much at all.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 15:51)
Yeah, sure it's a part of our language - but so are other words. Like I say I don't mind its uses when it's for a reason - but there's nothing clever about using it every other word.
It's a bit like South Park - back when it first started, most kids watched it because it swore. Few got the jokes - it was more "ooooh he swore......" Don't get me wrong - I really like South Park, I just don't like the idiots who think it's great only because it swears & is "offensive" and not because of the humour in it.
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 16:10)
Although I should add, I can think of maybe three instances in my entire life where I've heard my parents swear.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 7 Jan 2007 16:11)
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