What do you think about HItler using Nietzsche to back up his ideology?
What/WHere are some of the major holes in Mein Kampf?
>>By HItzsche (Saturday, 25 Jan 2003 12:59)
Nietzsche offers multiple interpretations. It is hardly possible to transpose a philosophical doctrine into a policy and preserve the integrity of that doctrine. Politics are meant to elaborate projects or pragmatically bring solutions, and philosophy has another purpose, reflection.
Some of Nietzsche's statements, according to a certain interpretation, may perfectly correspond to the heathen spirit of national-socialism.
>>By Europagan (Thursday, 13 Nov 2003 15:23)
Nietzsche is possibly the most misunderstood 'philosopher' in history - he hit the nail on the head but just found it hard to live his philosophy because of human stupidity
>>By brainslave (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 14:37)
notwithstanding the fact that he was a couple of eggs shy of a dozen. i haven't read nietzsche deeply --yet. i've read a few chapters from "Beyond Good & Evil" and "Thus Spake Zarathustra". perhaps i'm misunderstanding him myself, are thes 'hyperboreans' self-selected, elected through some system, is it racial, or are they remeniscent of Thomas Jefferson's 'natural aristocracy'?
>>By mre (Wednesday, 28 Jan 2004 06:38)
I do not know if I would call Nietzsche a philosopher. He is often categorized as such, but I see him more as an idealist and a poet. And as far as hitting the nail on the head, I would have to disagree with that as well. He has done more to destroy the foundations of morality than many of his counterparts. I believe that Nietzsche, while playing his part as a pallbearer for the funeral of God, smelt the stench of rotting flesh of the nations in the wake of the passing away of the Almighty.
"What I relate is a history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently. . . This future I speaks even now in a hundred signs; this destiny announces itself everywhere, for this music of the future all ears are cocked even now. For some time now, our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end that no longer reflects, that is afraid to reflect." ~Nietzsche
There are many who believe that the works of Nietzsche directly influenced Hitler. I am not trying to prove that they did. As far as we know, Hitler never actually read any of Nietzsche’s work. That in mind none can deny the fact that the European catastrophe that Nietzsche speaks of has a holocaustal ring to it.
"It is not error for the sake of error which horrifies me. . . it is a lack of nature, it is the utterly ghastly fact that antinature itself has received the highest honors as morality, and has hung over mankind as a law, as a categorical imperative! . . . To blunder to this extent, not as an individual, not as a people, but as mankind!" ~Nietzsche
If the 'conventional' morality is thrown out, what is to replace it? Who is to write our new code of conduct, what hand will carve out the stone for the postmodern commandments? If we are placed beyond good and evil, what set of guidelines will we use to determine our daily decisions? It was once good and right to help the beggar on the street, but now are we are to shun him?
The death of God ushered in a new era. Man was no longer made in the image of Divinity, but of the ape. Man went from a divine work of art to a 'scrawl which an unknown power scribbles across a sheet of paper, to try out a new pen'. Man has become nothing more than flotsam and jetsam in the sea of life.
Nietzsche asked to change our perspective, and to sit above the ideas of good and evil. If morality dies, truth dies with it. Morality has one foot in the grave, and truth is close behind. In a recent poll the youth of Canada were asked for one thing they could have without question, 62% gave the answer 'someone they can believe'. Truth is becoming a rare commodity.
Listen to the words of the famed journalist Malcolm Muggeridge.
"Truth is very beautiful, more so than justice that puts on a false face. In the nearly seven decades that I have lived through, the world has over flowed with bloodshed and explosions whose dust has never had time to settle before others have erupted. The quest for justice continues and the weapons of hatred pile up, but truth was an early causality. The lies on behalf of which our wars have been fought and our peace treaties concluded. The lies of revolution and counter revolution. The lies of advertising, of news, of salesmanship of politics, the lies of the priest in his pulpit, the professor at his podium, the journalist at his typewriter. The lies stuck like a fishbone in the throat of the microphone. The handheld lies of the prowling camera men. Ignatius told me once when he was a member of the old common turn, how some stratagem was under discussion, and a delegate, a newcomer who had never been there before made the extraordinary observation that if such and such a statement were to be made, it wouldn't be true! There was a moment of dazed silence, and then everyone began to laugh. They laughed and laughed until tears ran down their cheeks and the Kremlin walls seemed to shake. The same laughter echoes in every council camber and cabinet room where any two or more are gathered to exercise authority.
It is truth that has died, not God."
Those who try to free us from morality do not realize that the branch is trying to saw itself from the tree in the name of freedom, only to drop to the ground without protection, without nourishment, without life.
>>By _joel (Wednesday, 28 Jan 2004 07:30)
truth is independent of morality. truth is, in my opinion, reality. if there were no mankind there would still be truth. it never leaves the room and it's always taking notes. where the breakdown occurs is when people refuse to see truth --or prefer to ignore truth. that's how an individuals hopes and dreams are crushed and that's also how genocides happen.
as far as the 'morality' of nietzsche's time --and ours, whatever its source, it had been handed down generation to generation and in a sense 'tested'. certain things people know: don't steal, don't kill people, etc. nietzsche and others were attacking the basis for those arguments, which is not necessarily the same thing. people would still live the way they were going to live. they always have.
also, i think the catastophe that he was speaking of was World War I, or The Great War. some of the things that i've read suggest that europe had been stoking the fires for that one since the 1870s.
>>By mre (Wednesday, 28 Jan 2004 17:28)
what is truth?
and how does one determain the difference between truth and falsehood?
>>By _joel (Wednesday, 28 Jan 2004 21:02)
it has long been thought that to be a truthful person was to be a morally upright person, and therefore when morality is taken away, truthfulness goes with it. truth cannot be independent from morality any more than the hand can be independent from the body.
morality is the mind which determines what is true and what is false. without this mind every judgment becomes an obscure gray area, and every decision relative to the maker.
how do you determine truth aside from a moral standpoint?
>>By _joel (Thursday, 29 Jan 2004 22:01)
every decision is relative to its maker. also, to say that truth cannot be independent of morality, is to say that there is only one kind of morality. in which case, what do you mean by morality? and what do you mean by "from a moral standpoint"? the fact that there have been --and still are-- numerous cultures, with just as many definitions of "moral" of acceptable behaviour, suggest to me that from the point of view of the individual, morality depends on where your standing. of course, there are some basic rules which everyone (or most people) appear to agree with, e.g. lying is wrong, stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, etc. these coincide with the ten commandments but many of the same moral restriction are present in non-Christian cultures. what do you mean by morality?
>>By mre (Thursday, 29 Jan 2004 22:40)
Of course this cropped up in a Nietzsche message board. Why not take it more off topic. Regardless, truth and morality have nothing to do with each other. You can be a completely truthful person, but the importance of what is true could easily be belittled by someone whose moral character differs. A person who doesn't hold truthfulness as a moral virtue calls you the fool.
"how do you determine truth aside from a moral standpoint?"
"e.g. lying is wrong, stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, etc. these coincide with the ten commandments"
double huh........why do YOU lie.....if this is so important?
And why do I consider myself a moral person if I have no problem stealing from those who have earned a target?
>>By Distrust (Friday, 30 Jan 2004 06:15)
One of my friends here in India has done a painting on Nietzsche. Its
fabulous and even better than his black and white photos. i wish it would
be accpected in a Museum. I am willing to part with it free of cost
>>By Anand Bose (Friday, 30 Jan 2004 15:26)
Pray… as (aying or eying)! The diphthongs are to be read and pondered on!
The old folk of God’s Own country have a motif of the Eagle stored in cupboard of folk wisdom and being transferred from generation to generation as fact, fancy and humour, being desiccated down the ages to brevity as a saying: even the eagle dares not to fly over money.
The eying above and the forking below resemble a density of a man who addressed the densification of metaphors in the first person: “thus spoke Zarathustra”.
I am seeing an old parallel, though on a dirty one-dollar bill, smudged by the fingerprints called generations and sweated by them and their vapours. I am wondering the why the imprint of the eagle is a medium called the exchange? It is frivolous to see the eyeing eagle and its smell! Why does the “all seeing eye” reduce the possession of the image as a copulation of transactions…?
I am still not able to understand that Eagles pray! In the dream I shift the diphthong of Pray and eye it suit the long hook, which diabolically translates the desire of the eying to Preying. I am a second late…. the talons have already gone deep into the crust of flesh and I see a little hare soaring into clouds. The eyes are winking as though they are praying.
>>By Anand Bose (Friday, 30 Jan 2004 15:28)
For the Seer of Zeitgeist -Wilhelm Nietzsche
A little Self is a Great Thought! In the world of Angels and the Devils there are the humans!
affectionately anand bose
>>By Anand Bose (Friday, 30 Jan 2004 15:33)
For Seer Wilhelm Nietzsche
Will is the higest desire or even its lowest!!!
>>By Anand Bose (Friday, 30 Jan 2004 15:34)
What in the hell are you people talking about?
>>By Seward3 (Sunday, 1 Feb 2004 10:58)
The case of Hitler and Nietzsche demonstrates the danger of ideologies. Being that Nietzsche's work is subversively brilliant, I would consider him more of a satirist than a philosopher, which would make Hitler a big dodo-brain for trying to make a practical ideology out of Nietzche's work. Besides, Nietzsche's life seemed to contradict much of the barbarism implied if one is to view his work one-dimensionally. Take the famous instance of Nietzsche's life just before he became a mental invalid. The great debunker of pity was walking down the street when he saw a man savagely beating his horse. In reaction to this barbarous act, he flung his arms around the horses neck and the story goes that he was never quite the same again. This hardly seems like the actions of one who despises morality and pity. Just some food for thought.
>>By goodegg (Saturday, 27 Mar 2004 09:50)
i really like nietzsche not only because of his unique surname but also of his philosophy entitled "GOD IS DEAD" guys and gurls out there should read this because it can really give yah a hint of the secular society and its relation to God and how people treat GOD as DEAD................this is really a hip........try reading this its fun..............cu :-)
>>By stereophonic freak (Monday, 29 Mar 2004 11:32)
hitler's beliefs and for that fact the beliefs of his reigime were inspired by Nietzsche and his negative outlook on life but he did speak the cold hard truth when he said it
>>By therion (Monday, 29 Mar 2004 23:58)
Nietzsche war verrückt; damit kann ihm man nicht glauben! Er haßte Gemeinsamkeit,,, in irgendeiniger Form. So ein verrückter Mensch!
Nietzsche was absolutely insane; therefore he cannot be taken seriously! He hated any form of community, etc...
>>By Fressack (Tuesday, 27 Apr 2004 09:06)
About the relationship between Hitler's ideology and Nietzsche's works, it is now known that his (that is, Nietzsche's) own sister modified the works themselves to reflect an antisemitic bias. She herself was married to a leading member of the antisemitic movement in the country, and thus wanted to promote his viewpoint. 'The Will to Power' was the one work most changed, and is not necessarily representative of Nietzsche's thought. That's for the historical part.
Now, it is quite easy to see that anyone that reads through most of his writing will meet with racism towards Jews, as well as the English, French, German, etc. Racism here is defined as a bias towards a race, based on a generalization that is not necessarily acceptable. Now, there is a difference between caracterizing Jews as such and such (the precise terms he uses escape me at this time), and hating them, and especially promoting their expulsion, or, sigh, elimination. But Nietzsche also celebrates these differences between races, except maybe the German, but it seems Hitler grabbed on to the parts promoting his views, not the whole of Nietzsche's thought.
>>By Manucléiton (Thursday, 30 Sep 2004 14:35)
it is terrible that people missunderstood Nietsche´s ideas
>>By aaf (Monday, 11 Oct 2004 23:22)
Cioran has been called the last worthy disciple of Nietzsche. I think that students of Nietzsche would enjoy finding out in what sense Cioran is influenced and in what sense he differs from Nietzsche.
>>By Bob from Apollo (Tuesday, 12 Oct 2004 14:33)
Nietzsche himself sid: antisemites should all be shot.
Hitler just thoguht the ubermenscht (spelling?) concept could be applied to the aryan race. Too bad he had little foresight.
I myself don't like nietzsche. his "philosophies" are all based on affirmations that he makes and believes.
"Manipulating ones neighbour for ones own means... Is there anyone better at this than a wowan?"
must've been a lonely man...
>>By Plastic Passion (Wednesday, 13 Oct 2004 00:16)
Happy 160th Birthday to Nietzsche today.
>>By Bob from Apollo (Friday, 15 Oct 2004 18:42)
nietzsche was a racist and completely misogynistic. . .his own homosexuality tormented him for years. . .and at the end of his life he went completely insane. . .
in one of his earlier works he argued that death was the best possible thing that humans could hope for. . .that in itself shows that his own miserable life and misconceptions influenced his 'philosophies'. . .
he consistently berated women. . .attacking their work ethic, their intelligence, and their very importance in society. . .
i have a hard time understanding how anyone can even to begin to take nietzsche's writings seriously. . .
>>By drowninginflame (Friday, 22 Oct 2004 18:38)
also as an added note:
i have read that after nietzsche's death his sister, and adamant hater of jews, had control of his estate. . .and she ensured that his legacy went on to fund the nazi regime. . .
>>By drowninginflame (Friday, 22 Oct 2004 18:45)
We don't blame Christ for the actions of Christians; just as well.
and maybe some people need to be berated.
Also yes he did go mad and died but if you got alzheimers I wouldn't take it to be the result of your philosophy.
And maybe he was gay; so what?
And if he did berate the oversocialized version of womanhood of his times so what?
He probaly yearned for their company and was drowning in his way.
He didn't hurt anyone and anyone influenced by him chose to be or else he struck a deep chord in them.
He wasn't a Nazi; I think he has been seriously misread by people on that one.
And sometimes we cannot be resposible for how our family is.
Be kind to N.
>>By yogi4rock (Monday, 8 Nov 2004 06:11)
'so what?' you say. . .
if you actually read what i posted you would realize that not once did i say that nietzsche was a nazi. . .i said that his sister was. . .and that she used money from his estate to fund the nazi regime. . .and she never hid that fact. . .it is a well known fact. . .
i wasn't criticizing nietzche for being a homosexual. . .i myself am bisexual. . .i was criticizing him for hating himself for it. . .i was criticizing him for being a self-loathing homosexual. . .
and being homosexual. . .i'm fairly sure he didn't yearn for the company of women. . .
i find it amazing that so many shrug off racism and sexism. . .as 'so what?'. . .that kind of attitude is the ultimate path to hatred and misunderstanding. . .and friedrich nietzsche helped legitimize these horrific concepts. . .
that's what. . .
>>By drowninginflame (Monday, 8 Nov 2004 18:53)
how do u know N was homosexual?
I haven't seen a reference to that.
still the question though: so what? because hi sexual orientation is not what is being discussed in his writitng; unless you think that all writers are really only ever expressing their secret desirees and phobias.
if so then it is hard to read and understand anything.
>>By yogi4rock (Thursday, 2 Dec 2004 02:15)
I like the pure evil of Nietzsche, how he handles the Jews for instance. He makes a clear distinction between the colloquial â€œjewâ€ and the Jewish people. So in one paragraph he can be praising Jews while in the next paragraph denouncing anti-semites for their Jewishness And really, what IS the worst thing you can possibly call an anti-semite other than a jew? It's part of the poetry of his style of writing: words become looser, freer things with multiple meanings. There's so much play going on, even in his most serious works. â€œGod is dead,â€ and he knew it.
>>By meditationXVII (Thursday, 9 Dec 2004 09:12)
The discussion board is currently closed.