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Discussion: Message_archive Pages: 1 2 Lynn, so glad you didn't agree with me if you think I am in any way trying to paint a picture of AIB, one which you feel unhappy about. However, I had not painted any image of AIB, that I'm aware of. I just stated how things look from a subjective viewpoint, but you must interpret as you see fit... What a pity AIB didn't post my reply to her flork message!!! I can't because I didn't and don't keep a record of messages... I don't agree with your statement that military men who dropped by went away just because you didn't agree with them...When did you ever give them space to talk without leaping on them like a bunch of unruly schoolgirls intent on bashing hell out of them with your satchels...Let's be honest, not one of you stepped back and shut up and listened, did you? Oh no, you were too damn busy doing what you're doing now, defending an imaginary castle set up by AIB. You said, Lynn: "And if people come here to talk about his bad sides - they are finished real quick because they don't get much response (to their liking). " But you do respond, the same few with one voice: "What we say goes, if you don't like it go away." You don't give those people a chance, you make it a hostile environment. F-Troop really consists of two people, the sergeant and the corporal, the rest can join so long as they pass muster with the sgt... If the sole objective of AIB is to make this a pleasant place, then that includes acceptance of people one might prefer to drop down a bl**dy great hole, but who's running this joint if it's not AIB? OK here's a question: Is AIB the Merry Gardener (MG) if so why not say so? If AIB isn't MG (the boss around here), why then does AIB assume command, dictate policy and as good as heap trouble on anyone who queries their right to speak as they see fit? If I thought AIB was being overly got at by anyone, yeah, I'd query that too, in fact I remember a time when AIB appealed for help from me to quell trouble...Sometimes I felt like a special operative on stand by, awaiting command to initiate a rear assault on loutish verbally accusatory forces... I love the way when it gets a bit hot around here someone goes on about it's all a bit of fun, nothing serious...Well in that case, take a beer, draw up a chair, and laugh it off, and don't go all serious on someone who says they don't like McNab or Ryan... Damn it all, enough derogatory stuff about Ryan has been bandied around here without any one of you leaping to his defence, (regular as clockwork). Why should that be when you and AIB almost crucify anyone who's moderately anti McNab? Did I say you shouldn't like the Nick Stone Character? No, I didn't. Did I say you shouldn't compare NS with AM? No, I didn't. Of course that side of it is fun for those who don't know him. But the same might not be said for some of those who do, and no matter how much we don't like what some people have to say we should, as an open forum, allow them to explain themselves. Not cut them off just because we might not like what they have to say... It's all too easy to read, to add up the dots and cross the Ts, but when push comes to shove we can learn a hell of a lot more from the real things (military men who served SAS) than we can from our own assumptions, beliefs, imagination, and of that which is written in books, in particular novels. For one, I want to hear what ex/serving SAS/other military men have to say, and if that means I learn something new about AM/CR et al, great!!! Don't you agree, that's what being here is all about, learning more, if possible, about authors of choice besides discussing their works. >>By buddy Learning more, I agree absolutely. But learning is something different than having to hear being stupid for having an "unhealthy obsessional slant" (mind if I borrow your words for a mo?) with McNab. Sorry but I don't agree with you for not giving newbies (military or other) a chance. That's not how I see it and if you (obviously) do than we should agree to disagree. All posters who said they had military background felt the need to drop negative things and turned nasty if they got responses they didn't like. That's not discussing, that is childish. You were quick to say that you don't save florks or poofed posts - maybe you should start, cause reading poofed posts again might have you recall some of the nasty ones. As for 'don't get serious if someone is negative about McNab, but laugh it off' I can say that I think that I do a lot of laughing off, even (or especially) at myself. That's not always appreciated either. What brought this all up all of a sudden Buddy? Were you in the mood for some fire or is something (else) bothering you? >>By Lynn "What a pity AIB didn't post my reply to her flork message!!!" As requested: "Message from buddy 9:53 AM on December 12 I'm not fussed about author profile page - I've removed Bloodhound from sale. The erotic book on site needs no introduction and best without profile.. " >>By am-i-binned Lynn, you say military guys "drop negative things and turned nasty if they got responses they didn't like" Who said everyone thought their remarks were negative? You might have, not everyone did! Captain poof'd - a point in fact - comments one page back. When I say "unhealthy obsessional slant" in reference to copied/archived posts and private mail, J*S*S, call that healthy, for whom, people with short memories? Don't make me laugh, my sides are splitting already... Good god, a book could be written wih the info listed here, let alone the deleted stuff...Would you like me start one? Now there's a thought !! How about a title game...Who would you like to be the lead protagonist, and what shall we call her, it has to be a she, right? Couldn't be a man, could it, good grief men don't favour much curry around here do they? Hell, we're lucky there are any at all... Who's side am I on, I think more and more I'm siding with the poor bastards who don't stand a chance - MEN... McNab welcome here. B*ll*cks, he loses 'em... Somehow the chat board I set up has become a bone of contention, and the joke is, I don't even want to be in charge of it...I just had the wherewithall to provide one and that's all there was to it, no ulterior motive. It's there, use it or don't use it...I'm going with the men on this one. Some women need to be more understanding of the male psyche, more especially those whom say they can understand AM's plight of being captured, brutalised, and emotionally battered. Give a little, girls, to the other guys out there who are suffering post traumatic stress, battle fatigue, hopelessness in the face of civvy street. Give a second thought to your high-handed self opinionated stance of you know best, know how they feel, understand how they feel. Do you hell as like. You want my honest opinion. You make me sick, with your whinging about a few guys who came here and told you what it's really like to face the enemy, to fight hand-to-hand,to stick someone (knife/Kill) to prevent them raising the alarm etc... Captain was right if he said you as good as glorify war with your pandering ways and obsession with all things SAS...God, I hope you never, ever, live to know what it's really like to have a gun to your head, knife to your throat, etc, not knowing if your next breath is your last...Do you really believe AM is free from all that? He may say he's not affected by what happened, that his writing is not the least bit carthartic, and if you believe that then you're fools to yourselves... He's affected, his life reflects how affected he is by what's happened to him...Same goes for CR and the rest of the remaing Bravo Two Zero team. After all, they set out as a team... >>By buddy < their remarks were negative? You might have, not everyone did! They were poofed, so they were negative according to the Discussion Guidelines. In that sense it doesn’t even matter what I think/thought. I am gonna say this one last time: it’s not what is said, it’s how it is sad. Captain had a very good point, that’s why I repeated it in a more ‘readable’ language. He just choose the wrong way of making his point. And that is the problem with all those who come here and can’t stay long enough to make their point: they may have a good message, they just have a bad way of bringing it. Calling us names, sorry ME names and cursing is not a good start for discussion. < a book could be written with the info listed here, let alone the deleted stuff...Would you like me start one? I think I would even buy it. Want me to send you the deleted stuff? < Who's side am I on Oh come on Buddy – I bet you are enjoying this as much as I do. < Somehow the chat board I set up has become a bone of contention You lost me here – what is the problem with the chat board?? < Give a second thought to your high-handed self opinionated stance of you know best, know how they feel, understand how they feel. Do you hell as like. Not fair. All there is to say is that I cannot in my wildest dreams (nightmares) imagine what it’s like. And I’m grateful that I can’t. And I never EVER belittled this, nor do I believe did anyone on this board. We have repeatedly said that we respect those guys for everything they have done, or still do, and have experienced and still are going through. This is an entirely different discussion than saying that McNab is a traitor, with no friends in Hereford etcetera !!!! < You make me sick, with your whinging Indeed, very honest. Sorry about that but I am just being me on this board, like you are being you. >>By Lynn Lynn, if as you say: "We have repeatedly said that we respect those guys for everything they have done, or still do, and have experienced and still are going through." Then if you do, give them voice, (the others who were there) Iraq 1 & 2, the ones who achieved their aims, the ones who were in Afghanistan, those in the Falklands War, those who were ((years ago)) in Northern Ireland.) Men suffering PTSS (other battle fatigue syndromes/ shell-shock) call it what you will when traumatised, they find it hard enough to express themselves in their every day lives let alone when confronted with unknown women on a message board who blast at them for being less than perfect in how they post what they are thinking!! You see, pointing it out to you as best as I can without going into medical jargon, they are thinking on their feet, not necessarily very rational thought, if anything, very confused thoughts... So tell me, if you can, where have you given to this kind of behaviour, (charitable nuance of understanding). When have you conceded defeat in your overall reactionary objective to knock these fellas down simply because their tone was a little brusque, somtimes obnoxious (yes, I'll grant you that clause) but you still insist you are right in your judgement of them, that you have the right as a member of F-Troop to shoot them down before they have the chance to calm down, rethink what they said, reread what they said without being haranged for their initial burst from the heart... Yes, I know it's an old nugget the discussing of and the reminding that this is an Andy McNab forum, and the equally corny old line of: "If you don't like it here, you can go elsewhere. Well, same applies to you, same to me, but we're still here. Yeah, and I know you wish that B great hole would open up and swallow me, or MG will finally cut me off and throw me in the same bin as a nutter... Why is that, when people prove to be a tad questionable do we respond with "go elsewhere"..The answer lies in the old line: "I was here first!" mentality... Childish?... Absolutely!!! If we all so-called respect these guys why then do you, or anyone else ("here before them", being the optimum clue) call their remarks/action of leaving this forum, as childish... What gives any one us/you the right to tell these guys where to go? There was a time when corny lines similar to: "We're here to discuss Andy McNab books, and not to go off at tangents" then suddenly it was OK to go off on tangents so long as it was initiated by the sgt or the corpl and people did, but anyone with an ounce of savvy of social conscience can see where key posts are suddenly popped in so as to change the subject if a topic is getting a tad sticky, like a newbie appears from nowhere with an obscure non-thread post and vanishes almost immediately once the original thread has been cut. How often on other boards do you see a newbie hit a list with an off topic question (without off topic Warning)? When this board gets sticky, Wuh, only Lynn, AIB and buddy seem to be around...Know why? Might that be because we've been around the longest, and the fact that not so long ago there was much laughter and jibing about Godly power of the Poof'd factor? Think about that one for a moment... Who wants to be poof'd, banned completely from Gnod (flork) ? It prevents one from conversing on other message boards here at Gnod (Global Net of Dreams) You know something, I heard that name (title) years ago, in passing, and at the time wondered if it would ever surface. It's great!! Whether the person I heard mention it ( first) is behind the scenes, who can say? Like titles of books there are coincidentals, same way there are authors by the same names, leading to much confusion for readers. Example, check out The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy board! Not much action over there, it's in its infancy, no sgt & corpl barking points of barrack room order to wannabe troopers... Sorry <<slaps face>> my rebel streak will out. There are interesting people lurking, far more interesting than either you or I, Lynn, just a pity they feel unable to post without having to show their credentials for inspection via flork. Don't get me wrong, flork is great, but it shouldn't be utilised as a means of interrogating newcomers. I think it's a pity that we can't reshuffle the deck, cut the pack, and let a few more colourful cards have centre play on the McNab board. I'll step down from the podium now, and hope someone else will champion the call for those of lesser voice.... MG feel free to poof or ban me, whatever, if it makes you happy. >>By buddy I did not read all this in detail, but it looks like these two pages are mainly made of posts related to the poofed message by captain, about personal disputes, about Gnod and Flork and about tech infos and therefore Off-Topic in the McNab-Board. If there are messages moved here that are On-Topic and should be moved back, just flork me or feel free to repost the On-Topic parts. >>By mg < Then if you do, give them voice I’m not the one to give them voice, they have to speak up themselves. And I stick to my opinion that if they show respect in the way I am approached I am not gonna be rude in my reply. Men suffering from PTSS may find it hard to express themselves – if they come here and are rude I don’t feel the need to talk to them. I’m not a social worker, not meaning that I’m not willing to talk or listen, but I don’t have the expertise to understand they way they think, or talk. You may find this cold, whatever. I will listen to reasonable talk but I’m not here to be insulted. < you still insist you are right in your judgement of them No. I don’t judge them, I don’t have the expertise to judge them. But if anyone wants a real conversation they have to adjust their tone or they’ll be poofed before I even get the chance to read and think about it. < I know you wish that B great hole would open up and swallow me, or MG will finally cut me off and throw me in the same bin as a nutter... You know??? If you’d really know you’d say exactly the opposite. I’d say I thought you knew better. < If we all so-called respect these guys why then do you, or anyone else ("here before them", being the optimum clue) call their remarks/action of leaving this forum, as childish... I said it was childish to get rude once the response is not to your liking. < When this board gets sticky, Wuh, only Lynn, AIB and buddy seem to be around...Know why? Because the sticky parts seems to involve us most often. < Sorry <<slaps face>> my rebel streak will out. Mmm, got some rebel problems myself at the moment. < I'll step down from the podium now It’s only a few steps down – and up. >>By Lynn You still don't get it, do you: men suffering PTSS don't realise they are being rude! Equally, you won't accept that by being pedantic you are effectively preventing freedom of their expression...I wonder just how you and AIB would react to a postee (mentally retarded) whose a tad slow on the uptake, after all, one appears to exist, not that he/she posts very often... A few guys have relayed that they just see a bunch of starry-eyed women drooling over AM and the stuff he writes about. Fair enough assessment, if a tad biased, maybe even a little jealous...But you know something, a lot of men need reassurance, need to know they have a place in a world they were part of (SAS), that one person doesn't/isn't stealing all the glory from past heroes who, perhaps, were far greater than any of the present ex SAS authors...The quiet heroes are often the real heroes! Half of what AM writes they can relate to, and unlike his way of laughing off (clowning to hide his) hurt & pain, a "conscience" within plays havoc with the moral of life itself for some of the men who've done things AM hasn't, wasn't old enough to be involved in...The SAS was around long before he joined up... One could say our spat was childish, but we both know why it fired up...I truly do believe everyone who comes here has something to offer, something we can learn from, something AM can learn from, and that is a little humbleness. >>By buddy I meant to say: you don't need to be a social worker, I've told you, and you've read enough on this board to see how PTSS affects military men, so any argument on that line just doesn't wash clean... We are old hands here, can smell trouble at a thousand paces, but that doesn't give us the right to cut people down without a giving them a fair crack of the whip. Believe it, with psychology degree under my belt I can smell conspiracy at two thousand paces before it kicks into action..When did a nasty name ever hurt? You say it's up to them to speak up, but if they do and you & AIB take a dislike you take no prisoners...Neither do I, but I want the facts before I slaughter them, if need be... >>By buddy You know how stalkers operate, right? How they try to instil fear into their victims, that sense of power that gives the stalker a buzz!!! Well, since our spat I've received weird e-mails at Devonwren, guns and the like, it's happened before after a previous spat, only that time I was bombarded with, well, never mind... I have the Bulk & Spam mail set to maximum pick-up, most keywords covered, and its rare for anything to get through to the inbox unless specifically targeted to inbox. Basically I don't see the shit that goes to the Bulk/Spam box, don't even lift the mailbox lid to take a peep. What I'm saying is, I don't receive unpleasant mail other than after spats on this board... Work that one out... >>By buddy Sorry you are receiving unpleasant mail. Please stop making me responsible for men with PTSS not getting a decent word in on board. If they're not poofed before I can get a chance to read I always read and I will not judge. But I will promise you that I will try to look through (beyond) insults a little better. >>By Lynn
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