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| Discussion: Jack "You're implying I think that non-consenting sex is ok? How low can you get?" where the fuck did you get that nugget of information from!! it's you who bleated on about men not feeling safe if women were given the anti-rape condom, I couldnt give a toss if men feel safe or not, if it prevents women from being raped I am all for it, and if it rips the fellas to shreds in the process, well they wont be fucking raping again will they... But oh i guess it doesnt matter if women get raped we have to get behind the cause of the insecurities of the rapist and the oppression they had from females as children bless them the poor loves, anything but be inhuman to them, Its pretty clear that you dont actually know any rape victims do you, and its pretty fucking plain for me to see that i wouldnt be able to trust you to save my girlfriend if she was being raped, in case it violates the rapists human rights... so how the hell is that saying that non-consenting sex is ok? >>By BushisaManiac I think you've misinterpreted BIAMs earlier post Flagg, I certainly didn't read his comment that way. >>By planet ear >so how the hell is that saying that non-consenting sex is ok? I said you're implying that *I* think non-consenting sex is ok. Well i don't. And if you look closely (*read* the posts before you respond and all that, remember?) I didn't once say anything about murderers and rapists having insecurities, or that we need to be nice to them, or that murder or rape can be justified or understandable. I said: KILLING IS WRONG And the point I was trying to make about men not feeling safe is that some sick person might wear one of those things and sleep with some guy for a laugh. And if I saw your girlfriend being raped I'd kick the guy's ass and call the police, I wouldn't fucking castrate him. >>By Flagg Aha Flagg, mistake on my part I read your statement differently had you wrote 'that I think" then i would have got where you were coming from, and no I didnt mean to imply that you thought it was ok, but that the consideration for non rapist's being caught out by some evil woman wanting to wreck his life outweighs catching the rapist. The answer to that is simple really at the risk of being slightly vulgar, good foreplay would kind of let you find out if one of these things was being used, and who knows it might improve a few relationships if more foreplay was...er..employed!! mmm as for the other topic, In the nice world that you want, Killing is wrong, in the real world KILLING IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY!! I would far rather execute certain types of murderer than risk them killing again and paying taxes to keep them alive. and as far as rapists go if I saw a rapist in the act I would try to ensure that he could never use his bits again, cos a good many of the fucking pervets go on to rape again and again. Regardless of whether you said or didnt say that they have insecurities, or whether they should be understood there ARE wishy washy bleeding heart types out there that do believe that, hence the reason why we have one victim's support group in this country and over a dozen different prisoner support groups, these same support groups that press for early release of prisoners including rapists 'cos they have shown remorse or good behaviour in jail, of course they show good behaviour there arent no fucking kids or women to rape in jail are there. And unless this useless government or any future government passes a law that says life means exactly that then we are forever going to hear of rapsist going on to commit more rapes and murderers getting out after 10 to live out a life that they denied to their victims and the victims families. >>By BushisaManiac Right tomorrow I'm off abroad for a long weekend see you all next tuesday, and I hope none of you get raped or murdered whilst I'm gone!! >>By BushisaManiac I think the real difference between us is that I believe my responsibility stops at myself and those around me. If I saw someone being raped, of course I would intervene, I would stop it happening that time because it's right in front of me, and I would call the police and do everything I could to let the system deal with this man appropriately, even though I know that system is massively flawed. I agree with you, life should mean life, and too many people are too concerned about the welfare of murderers and rapists. But - personally - I feel it is not my place to castrate someone in order to stop them ever repeating what I saw them do once. Statistics might say that they are likely to re-offend but I don't trust statistics enough to justify cutting a man's dick off. And I definitely feel it's not my place (or anyone else's) to kill someone because they killed someone. We're both very opinionated. The difference is I believe in my own opinions, of course, but not so devoutly that I think other people should live or die by them. I mean, it's a big thing, life and death, surely you see that? I don't think any human being on this planet has enough insight or understanding to know whether someone deserves to die. You know, if life meant life, or a minimum of fifty years perhaps, then we wouldn't need the death penalty. I think a guaranteed minimum fifty years in jail for murder would be a strong enough deterrant. The problem is, as you say, that we have to pay to keep criminals in jail. Yes, killing them is one way of solving that problem, but a better way might be to do something about the problems you mentioned earlier with the way taxpayers' money is handled and distributed. Oh yes, and if 75 % of footballers' salaries went into the prison service... problem solved. >>By Flagg I mean, there's enough money in the economy to fix the justice system, the NHS and whatever else. There is isn't there? It's just handled badly and it's in the wrong places. Anyway, hope you had a nice weekend. >>By Flagg Oh yeah. >In the nice world that you want, Killing is wrong, in the real world KILLING IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY!! I understand that. I don't think it's necessary in the case that we were talking about. Like war, I realise war is sometimes necessary. But not often. I'm aware of no necessary war going on at the moment. The world wars, they were necessary. >>By Flagg What I find quite unsettling is that people can commit crimes like this - and maybe show no remorse. We're all capable of it - but most do not yield to that power they possess. Yet somehow there is a small portion of society who would stalk a fourteen year old girl along a street at night, rape her; who would "happy slap" someone to death while filming it on their mobile phone........ Imagine being a parent to THAT. How sickening would it be to discover your son or daughter had murdered or raped someone. What is it that makes them do these things ?? What did society fail in which made them do these things??? Crimes will & always be committed - but how many murders & rapes are filmed on mobile phones - are laughed at by gangs of what is merely young teenagers - young teenagers laughing at murder ?? Yes - people say it's all down to the films on TV & the music they listen to. Personally I can watch a movie & I don't feel the need to re-enact it. I own all of the GTA computer games - I would never steal a car let alone fire a gun at someone for the sheer fun it (or at all in fact). The music I listen to ....... well it's not death metal or goth rock or whatever shit teenagers like to call (crap) music. Is it down to my parenting ?? Maybe. Maybe not. I have never lived in a city until now - so is it the enviroment I grew up in? But how many city dwellers are criminals ?? I guess there's no answer, not really. Not-right-in-the-heed would be what the Scots say. I agree - but there's something more sinister about it. Maybe it's the media coverage of it - but there does seem to be a lot of psychopaths on our streets - more than you would guess & by that I don't mean that there are THOUSANDS OF MILLIONS of them wondering the streets (as certain tabloids would hint at when it comes to these things). Capitol Punishment serves one thing & one thing only. It's mere existence in today's age answers the question "Are we as barbaric as we try desperately to deny?" It does not act as deterrant - not really. Murders are still commited in California - they have capitol punishment. Anyone who committs a crime does exactly the same thing as those who lie or do something they shouldn't have (but not illegal). They try & evade the punishment. >>By Tchock You're right. I think the human race, by and large, is one big fuck-up. Denying that is ridiculous; saying capital punishment or anything else can solve it is even more ridiculous. >>By Flagg TCHOCK <<<It does not act as deterrant - not really. Murders are still commited in California - they have capitol punishment. Anyone who committs a crime does exactly the same thing as those who lie or do something they shouldn't have (but not illegal). They try & evade the punishment.>>> Here you go again.... Yes, California--as well as 46-48 states--have a death penalty. Question: How is that a deterrent when the average time for carrying out the punishment is 10-15 years from the point of their conviction?? We have the death penalty in name only...and since 1975 (when the death penalty was reinstated) there have been considerably less than 50 executions---out of thousands of convictions carrying the death penalty. >>By lv2read Fewer, not less. Still too many. >>By Flagg I am utterly against the death penalty being re-introduced in the UK. I am against the state having such powers no matter how awful the crime. I believe i) that it would result in juries being less likely to convict the guilty ii) the process of appeals and counter-appeals to prevent miscarriages of justice would actually be vastly more expensive than simple life incarceration. iii) I have yet to be convinced of its deterrent effect. Regarding your earlier points lv2read i) I believe Unicef have probably done a more effective and responsible job of assessing educational systems than you have through your jingistic personal evaluations. ii) 39.5 % of the population of California over the age of 5 didn't speak English at home (US Census 2000) iii) Isn't it the case that the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (in which Mexico ceded Cailfornia and other territories to US control) was arguably distorted by various means so that Mexican citizens negoitiated land rights and guarantees of fully-fledged US citizenship for those that wished to remain in California and other ceded areas were effectively destroyed? iv) shouldn't then (by your own logic) Americans "emigrating" to California have learnt Spanish? >>By planet ear Planet Ear: >>By lv2read Planet Ear: Oops--to continue. ii Do you mean 'frivolous' appeals? iii Do you mean deterrence provided the punishment is swift and just?? Current topics. i Unicef and American education?? We educate people in English here....as I assume the UK does. The higher the % of non-English speakers the higher the illeterarcy rate. Sabe?? ii That is the problem. Let me tell you the percentage of Japanese immigrants that don't speak English AFTER 5 years residence. 1/2 of 1 percent 'maybe. Message to the hispanics....you MUST learn English. iii English has been the language here lomg before anything was ceeded to anyone. iv Logic follows that if you immigrate to a Russian territory, you had better learn Russian. What are your neighbors' (the French) thoughts on this? Your argument has passion, but NOT logic. >>By lv2read "English has been the language here lomg before anything was ceeded to anyone." Utter bullshit I'm afraid lv2read, California was Spanish-speaking. Has it never crossed your ill-educated mind that's why Los Angeles, San Fancisco, San Antonia etc have Spanish names? Duh. You're suggesting summary executions by cop or lynch mob maybe? That probably happens anyway, try asking some blacks or Hispanics...... it still hasn't stopped crime. >>By planet ear Oh, God, I agree with PE. Someone lethal-inject me, quick! >>By Just Jon Don't worry, I agreed with L2R about something earlier. There's a first time for everything. L2R, Mexicans living in the U.S. are a sub-culture. If they can get by without knowing English, what's the problem? Enlighten me. >>By Flagg FLAGG <<<L2R, Mexicans living in the U.S. are a sub-culture. If they can get by without knowing English, what's the problem? Enlighten me.>>> The Mexicans ARE a sub-culture....but schools teach in English....and education is very, very important. You isolate yourself when you don't participate in your education. If you live (and work) in America you must learn the lamguage. Planet Ear: Here you go again. And this question for you is written in ENGLISH. Since California became part of the Union, has there ever been a time when English was NOT the official language here? We are a nation of immigrants and it is the language than bonds us all. San Francisco, Santa Barbara, San Marcos-----and this is a testament to the early Spanish settlers. And this means????? That illegal immigratiom is OK? Schools should teach in Spanish?? We shouls NOT be concerned about an insane birth rate in their community and gang involvement levels that are critical?? Planet Ear, let me assist you. The answer to the questions above are all 'No.' What is pure bollshit is your propensity to walking in a door and throwing common sense out the window. Again, I'll help. The relevance of those words is that you respond or initiate an argument with a smattering of logic but become derailed quickly and spout unadulterated nonsense. Does your childish sense of argument 'play' in England?? What do your French friends think about language spoken and written in France? And in Liverpool, will they educate me in Hebrew if that is all that I speak?? Hint: I also know the answer to this question----but do you. We have ESL (English as a second language.....meaning that they learned Spanish first.....NOT that there are two offivial languages here) in schools and it is perplexing to me that after 5-10 years of that instruction their language skills are still substandard. Have we come full circle here?? Any parental responsibility that you can think of?? As a tax payer I am not sure that I should provide a service that so many reject. In England, do you assume the responsibility fir teaching English to the children of Pakistani immigrants. And for how many years is that funded. In Los Angeles there are 800,000 children in the ESL programs. How many Pakistanis are in a similar program in the UK? Several hundred, several thousand, several million?????? Are you getting the idea?? >>By lv2read But immigrant DO get by without knowing English don't they? >We are a nation of immigrants and it is the language than bonds us all. What are you talking about? No country has a bonded population. Languages are wonderful things but they can't unite an entire country. A country is just a big place where lots of people live, the people don't all have to be bound together by ANYTHING. If that was the case then there'd be no crime, no failure, everything would be fine and dandy and this message board wouldn't exist. >>By Flagg Gosh lv2read, are you ignorant of just determined to misrepresent the situation? California Spanish colony since about 1769-1821, Then achieved independence with rest of Mexico. Whereupon for the next 25yrs or so the Americans start settling as no longer under Spanish protection US war with Mexico 1846-8 and forceably seize California. Mexico cedes California under Treaty supposedly guaranteeing land to remain in owners hands and Mexicans remaining in territory for one year full US citizenship. US writes in a sneaky small print clause in article 9 saying they can decide when citizenship granted. 1847 Californian constitution written with only token Spanish representation amongst writers 1848 rather spurious and over-hyped "Goldrush" jollied along to encourage vast Anglo immigration. By the time many Spanish speakers get any significant democratic voice the Anglos are in majority. And , as you have pointed out , this places Spanish-speakers at a disadvantage: they remain something of a down-trodden minority ever since .... Surprized you didn't learn about that in school really...... or am I? ;) >>By planet ear Since we know how fond you are democracy lv2read, you readily allow others to die for it. Here's my little prediction for the forthcoming mid-terms. The Republicans will always get the majoity of votes in any state where where the ballot is counted electronically......... >>By planet ear PLANET EAR <<<The Republicans will always get the majoity of votes in any state where where the ballot is counted electronically......>>>> Well, the Democrats don't trust the manual system either. I have a suggestion. Why don't they come up with a platform that sits well with a broad spectrum pf voters?? FYI. I read somewhere that President Bush won the majority of votes in 60 percent of the counties in America!! I would have guessed that that % would have been higher. >>By lv2read Yeah? I read somewhere that the last two U.S. elections were both rigged. How often do you believe what you read? >>By Flagg Yeah? I read somewhere that the last two U.S. elections were both rigged. How often do you believe what you read?>>> And where did you read that? Don't fall prey to such cynicism!!! I wholeheartedly support President Bush and proudly cast my ballot for him. Flagg--the young people in America are much influenced by liberal educators. There is no balance here in the classrooms and that makes Bush'es victory even more remarkable. And when you consider that the morning newspapers and CBS, NBC and ABC television news are ALL partial to the Democrats-----had not the Democrats nominated a northeastern liberal they could have won going away....but they never learn. And when you consider the 'block' of black voters voting 98+% Democratic---were it not for that the election would not have been close at all. FLAGG Your views on war is way off. Do you suggest that the Israelis should have shrugged off the missle and mortar attacks from (inside) Lebanon? Or do you truly 'excuse' Israel for fighting back. I don't understand your point.... Let's see, Israel is surrounded by 75 million hostile neighbors....a fair fight??? We ain't in a perfect world!!! And you wonder why the people support Blair and Bush. Is it safe to assume that you disagree with the UN Security council imposing sanctions against N. Korea? Unaminous was the vote I believe. The US, Britain, France, China, Russia, Japan and others responding to President Bush'es motion to condem the actions of the N. Koreans. Real leadership...President Bush out front. >>By lv2read Bush's. ...views on war are way off. Condemn. Israel killed innocent people. And no it's not safe to assume I disagree with sanctions against North Korea. I don't. I just don't like the fact that WE have nuclear weapons and N. Korea isn't allowed them. I realise America, Britain and so on aren't dictatorships run by madmen, but nukes are nukes. The only sure way to avoid nuclear war is for no one to have nuclear weapons. Kind of makes sense if you think about it, but America just has to be the most powerful nation in the world doesn't it? And about the American tv networks and everything, well I heard it was the *republicans* they favour. Ok L2R, I want to give you a chance to do something meaningful: I'm a young person. My head is filled with liberal, anti-capitalist, anti-American nonsense. Give me a reason why I should believe YOU instead of Michael Moore. Go on. >>By Flagg Elections George W. Bush was elected 43rd President of the United States of America by a margin of 1% of the Electoral College vote on November 7th, 2000 CE, serving the 2000-2004 term. However, a vote recount ensued when results of voting in several Florida counties were disputed, and Bush did not officially become President-Elect until December 13, after a lengthy legal battle. He won by a margin of less than 150 votes, in one of the closest American elections in history. The Death Penalty When Bush was Governor of Texas 130 people were executed. He spared no one (except the Satanist and child molester Henry Lee Lucas who had murdered around 200 people). Some of those executed were mentally retarded, some had incompetent or corrupt state defence lawyers. Several had evidence to prove their innocence, DNA in one case; some were foreigners and had their right of consular access denied, appeals from the governments of Europe, Canada and Mexico went unheard. You even ignored appeals from His Holiness the Pope in the Vatican. Abuse of Power The Bush administration has swept aside nearly thirty years of rules and regulations and has secretly brought the NSA back into the business of domestic espionage. The NSA is now eavesdropping on as many as five hundred people in the United States at any given time and it potentially has access to the phone calls and e-mails of millions more. It does this without court-approved search warrants and with little independent oversight. Need i go on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>By wreckin krew On elections: I can't really blame the Bush regime for foul play because both sides cheat. In Atlanta, and every other American city with large black populations, poor voters are paid to go to the polls and vote for the people on the lists they're given, i.e., democrats. The party pays a lump sum to a fixer who then goes out in his van on election day and takes people to the polls, giving them each a few bucks for their votes. This is very well known to anyone who has worked for a party but it's not reported because it would draw accusations of racism. Having said that, I'm still going to vote for mostly democrats, but only because they're the lesser of two evils, not because I actually think they give a crap about democracy. >>By Just Jon JJ I had no idea of that. It's enlightening, thank you. (That's right L2R, I'm just taking his word for it.) The democracy we have in this country is pathetic. I've mentioned it earlier though. >>By Flagg FLAGG Without a doubt, no nuclear weapons would be best of all. But how could that be assured?? Would you then lobby to eradicate all fighter aircraft and other forms of military might. If you continue on in that manner you could disarm Israel and then it would be a fair fight....right??? 70 million to 15 million. Even steven?? Just as the Islamic extremists would like to see it. PS Missles which struck Israel were launched from Southern Lebanon. Yes, Lebanese will die IF they permit such assaults to take place. Wreckin Krew: Bush, as Governor of Texasm upheld State Law with respect to executions. What is wrong with that?? Abuse of Power: How would you thwart the ill intensioned terrorist? Let's assume that they won't ask your permission before they strike?? Things have changed since 9/11---and in Britain as well----we aren't the patsies that the world once knew. Wreckin Krew/Elections Please re-read your post....and think objectively. President Bush won Florida in both elections---fairly and squarely and that MARGIN of victory was large in comparison to John F. Kennedy's victory in 1960 against Richard Nixon (118,000 more votes than Nixon out of 60,000,000 (??) votes cast. How many minority communities took voting slips to the polls---which were issued by the Democratic party?? In 1960 Kennedy received 94% of the black vote, almost all of the Catholic vote and 85% of the Hispanic vote. Now which group do you think the Democrats provided rides to the polls and meals afterwards?? As Kennedy said in his Inaugural Address: Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. I am a Republican that likes that quotation very much. >>By lv2read |