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Discussion: Jack wtf ?????? i'm sorry when does something need to fucking HAPPEN before it's scary??? you try being a fucking school kid when you hear a noise like that & the SCARY thing is that it's automatically assumed that it's a fucking gun in the first place that's the thing !!! it's taken for feckin' granted that guns are a part of life in america - that's just allowed to happen it's just *one of these things* sorry fucking pissed off with you JJ i'll write something more polite in the morning >>By Tchock well it's not quite morning............but a few minutes later....... slag America off ??? hmmmm I don't think he was - I think he was making a valid point. & no- JJ we don't all have our own wee cliques here - i disagree with everyone here to some extent. Continued fear of school shootings. Exactly. Whether they happen or don't - it's the fear, which presumably means - there has been cases before. Now it may be rare - but let's face it, it's a pretty fucking scary that they happen at all - anywhere. I've heard a case in a certain city in America where a teenager shot his ex-girlfriend for screwing another guy. It's not slagging off America by pointing out that it's not as great as it's cracked up to be. Slagging off - has an air of fictitiousness about it............... Why is there a fear of school-shootings in America??? Why should any fucking student even FEAR that that might be the case - even if it turns out to be something completley innocent???? >>By Tchock If a car backfires outside a school and the teacher goes 'Calm down! It's just a car backfiring' then it's not scary. If the teachers get all the kids hiding under the tables and lock down the school, then it is scary. Obvious isn't it?? But it doesn't say anything about America as a whole. It certainly looked to me as if BiaM was scraping the barrel for ways to insult America. And JJ is right also that several of us team up, but only when L2R is here. I'm aware of that, and I try not to take on an 'An enemy of L2R is a friend of mine' kind of attitude. I think arguing about UK vs. US is the most childish thing we could possibly do. And Tchock, America having four times more people than Britain means it has four times as many normal people as well as four times as many nutters, so you would expect the level of fear to be about the same. Unless there are other factors involved, which there probably are, but if I started speculating on them then I'd be a total hypocrite. >>By Flagg JJ not having yobs on your streets because they may get shot is not a good advert for gun ownership...however perhaps we should shoot a few of ours every now and then just to keep the numbers down.....no seriously the UK does have a yob, or more particularly a binge drinking, culture and that's obviusly a bad thing..how do we stop it? I dont know perhaps a singapore style corporal punishment type thing would work, create mayhem, beat people up when your pissed and take a whacking that'll make you faint turn your arse to jelly and not be able to sit down for a week....I dont think you would get too many re-offenders with that.... but there are too many bleeding heart types across here that would whine and whinge about that!! Your country voted in an idiot, we voted in an arse licking sycophant ...quid pro quo I believe!! as for the..Your sarcastic "land of the free, home of the brave," ...... if you read the post that was written by an AMERICAN, not me, who e-mailed my mate because of the letter that his grand daughter sent him. and whether I was scraping the barrel or not, I posted the e-mail, to illustrate to certain people that not all yanks are like L2R (who would probably say it was fake anyway) and to say that no-matter how shite the UK is we dont have kids cowering under desks in fear of being shot, true we have had it happen once, and shootings do seem to be on the increase, but slaughtering your fellow countrymen hasn't yet become the national sport that it seems to be in the US. L2R is proud of his country, fair enough and whilst i'm not particularly proud of being British anymore I will still reply to his jingoism and belief that the US is the best bar none with whatever means I chose and if it happens to be the e-mail that a mate sent me and you dont like it well toughski shitski ...I could give other cases of how ridiculous the US is, just read the Stella awards and it becomes fairly clear. We havent quite got to that stage either in the UK, but along with prom night SAT's, semesters and an increase in gun crime I'm sure we will be following the USA's example and start suing each other for ridiculous things!! >>By BushisaManiac Tchock Uranium 235 is limited sure, but the whole point of "fast breeder" reactors is you gain fissle isotopes of plutonium in the process. You need to extract these and acheive a certain level of purity to create a viable fuel (or if further "enriched" a large enough and pure enough chunk to become "critical" ie an atom bomb). In that sense isn't nuclear fission renewable? Personally I think we really should working a hell of a lot harder on controlled fusion as that really would be a fantastic source of energy, but let's say that that seems unlikely when you've got an oilman in the Whitehouse.... ;) >>By planet ear >I will still reply to his jingoism and belief that the US is the best bar none with whatever means I chose and if it happens to be the e-mail that a mate sent me and you dont like it well toughski shitski Fair enough, but I think you use the toughski shitski line too often. Are you saying we shouldn't argue with you? We all know we're not gonna change eachother's minds (or that it's extremely unlikely); why should that stop us disagreeing? The ''that's what I think and if you don't like-it too bad'' attitude seems pointless since we all come to this board with that assumption. I don't know why you keep saying it. >>By Flagg Yeah. I think that's the case with all us humans. We're all for pragmatism & sharing views, changing other's minds - but don't you dare change my own. Sorry planet ear - to me, your last post made as much sense as an Infomatics Lecture. You're gonna have to dumb it down a bit - chemistry was always over my head - although this is chemical physics??? Isotope = Same atomic number, different mass/number of neturons??? Safer & more controlled - yes, I agree. But do you really think humans are capable of such things ??? >>By Tchock I predict that the incidence of nuclear power plants is on the rise particularly in highly industrialized countries. And. yes, there are challenges in the area of waste and storage. But fear of those problems will not lead us to their solutions. I believe that there is a great future for the breeder....but who really knows? The plutonium byproduct *of the breeder) is troubling, but I have faith in the agencies that monitor the programs. School shootings.....in America and elsewhere. Incomprehensible to me. Don't know if musical lyrics/drugs/movies or anything else are contributing factors, but what amazes me most is the expert opinion of people that have NEVER reared children of their own. We are talking about kids out of control....and, who better to understand it, than kids or people that have never had children. Sick ??? Are we missing/avoiding the point? My children are MY responsibility---not yours. I did not get your permission prior to fathering them. And I could blame everyone and everything else for poor behavior or whatever, but at the end of the day my children are MY responsibility. And it ain't easy. Regardless of what I do, I turn them over to societh approximately 6-8 hours per day. And you have to cross your fingers that the lessons you taught them and the values you've patterned are strong enough to sustain them. And you are just plain lucky when things work out well. Violence in America....... There is no violence in my neighborhood and a negligent incidence of violence in my city. And my guess is that every city in the UK demographically similar to mine is probably just as safe. And the same may be true in less privileged area...in both of our countries....wherein the crime rate and violence will be at elevasted levels. But I did notice a difference when I was in Britain. In the slums of Liverpool---during school hours--the children WERE in school. That is not generally the case here...and that is not PRESIDENT Bush'es fault either. My country is very tolerant of parents that ignore their responsibility. There is much rhetoric about holding parents accountable---but not much seems to be done....and the cycle of poverty continues. Plain and simple, clear as clear may be, education is the way out!!! And some make it..but many more do not. There is a way out. It may be exerxised by only a few, but it is available here nonetheless.I believe a free education, complete with a free breakfast upon arrival, and a healthy lunch at mid-day is conducive to learning. I have no control or moral authority over the home---but my taxes provide for an education for all. My society is not willing to take the place of the parent(s). The parents MUST assume responsibility here....no way around it. Children escape the ghettos by the thousands, but--sadly--many do not. >>By lv2read >The parents MUST assume responsibility I'm glad you think that. I agree. I also think people tend to take parenting too lightly. Myself, I intend never to have kids because I don't believe I would make a good parent. But I would argue that a good education is not the only way to avoid becoming a young offender. I think there are other things to which a young person can apply themselves, that will give them that way out that you mentioned. School isn't for everyone. Once again, that's from my (seventeen years of) personal experience. >>By Flagg As an old guy, just want to say that it's shameful to me that Flagg acts more mature than the rest of us. Maybe we're old and bitter. The violence in U.S. versus U.K. thing...If you really gave a shit you would talk about how many black children die in our ghettoes by gunfire, not how many suburban assholes get wasted by other suburban asshole kids who don't feel loved enough. I don't see why a child dying by gunfire is inherently more "scary" when it happens at school, sorry. But I think we're basically in agreement that America's gun culture is the cause of a lot of this. Also, Planet Ear will spout all sorts of crap he just Googled, and he doesn't understand it either, so don't feel bad. He is a scientist in the same sense that I am Oprah Winfrey. >>By Just Jon Try looking up fission in a children's encyclopedia JJ, it should be about the appropriate level for you. >>By planet ear Planet Ear.....a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Let me give you one---one that I don't have to look up. Read about the breeder....and if you want to impress...why don't you tell me about the challenges of a sodium cooled steam generation system...particularly in reference to elbow shroud technology. I am sure, of course you're an expert on this, so I'd like your opinion. You can take a strategy such as Tchock and BIAM and attempt tp confound others with snippets of info located on the web---none of which you'd comprehend. You fool no one here. Just Jon: Suburban assholes--you are absolutely nuts!! Arer you being serious?? When children fail--we care and it matters not whether they are black, white or scotch plad. Parents in the suburbs have myriads of challenges in child rearing, and do their best to provide opportunities (NOT benefits) for their children. The single parent in the ghetto has many of the same problems. Again, the parents have a profound responsibility here. I am not willing to pay the school to be surrogate parents--and many others believe that 'school' dollars are improperly dispersed when spent on non-educational priorities. And it is not only suburbanites that feel this way. You are selling minorities short if you don't realize that education is important to them as well. Trade schools (welding, tool and die engineers, machinists, designers of sand and investment casting patterns etc, and others non-academic fields too numerous to mention) provide training for HIGH paying jobs and should be readily available. And I think that a school district should be able to place a child in such a program without being labelled bigoted or something of that order. Planet Ear, JJ and all else (I include myself of course.)....let's tone down the rhetoric....we can disagree agreeably. And I know first hand that you all have many things that you want/wish to express. >>By lv2read Violence in America....... There is no violence in my neighborhood and a negligent incidence of violence in my city >>By lv2read (Thursday, 12 Oct 2006 20:57) LONG BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT ANNUAL CRIME STATISTICS We are currently re-designing our Crime Statistics Webpage. By the beginning of 2004, we will be offering in-depth crime statistics which will be reflective of the neighborhoods where you live and work. Our ultimate goal is to provide interactive GIS crime data that is easier to use and understand. Please check back with us to see our progress. Until then, we have made the 2003 reporting district crime statistics available to you online. A hardcopy can be found at our main library branch located in dowtown Long Beach at 101 Pacific Avenue, just east of City Hall. If you would like to maintain your statistical information over time, we have provided you with a form for your files. CRIME TYPE 2003 2002 2001 2000 MURDER/MANSLAUGHTER 50 67 49 49 FORCIBLE RAPE 136 144 125 115 ROBBERY 1,411 1,502 1,406 1,515 AGGRAVATED ASSAULT 1,984 1,902 1,804 1,525 BURGLARY 3,002 3,398 3,223 3,157 LARCENY/THEFT 8,074 8,506 7,825 7,679 AUTO THEFT 3,749 3,725 3,911 3,548 ARSON 207 196 226 168 TOTAL PART 1 18,613 19,415 18,569 17,755 *Crime statistics are reported according to FBI Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) guidelines. home • email the webmaster Copyright ©2003 City of Long Beach, California >>By wreckin krew Sorry about the skewiff chart people :) "But I did notice a difference when I was in Britain. In the slums of Liverpool---during school hours--the children WERE in school. - >>By lv2read (Thursday, 12 Oct 2006 20:57)" Considering the so called "Liverpool slums" you talk about all but dissapeared in the 1960's- 46 years ago - i'd say you have never visited the U.K. mate , and if you did your basing your observations of current U.K. society on 46 year old information. >>By wreckin krew Wrecking Crew: How do you define a slum? And, yes, I have been to the UK on several occassions and have spent time in Liverpool. To say there aren't slums there is like saying there aren't cars in Detroit!!! To question my truthfulness about describing visits there is intellectually dishonest on your part. And (you may have missed it) I wrote that I enjoyed England very much. And you can Google Long Beach all that you want but it does not change the fact that there is little violence in my city of Newport Beach---just as I said. Chill. >>By lv2read Well, statistics aside... According to the TV California is a rather divided place. There are alot of happy, rich people living in suburbs and alot of unhappy, poor people living in slums. There are Mexican immigrants who came across the border because they were starving in their country and now they get abused by over-patriotic young men with bright futures and rich parents. I'm not saying it is that way - I wouldn't know, I haven't been there. I'm just saying that's the image of California that the media has drummed into my head my whole life, and you appearing and saying 'Well my area is nice' isn't gonna change that image. And you never said what you thought of my idea about school not being the only way out etc. etc. I don't like the sound of what you said about how children should be 'placed' on programmes that teach them practical skills. I think the practical skills route needs to be as open to everyone as the academic route, and the young people decide for themselves. If you don't trust young people to choose the right path for themselves then you might as well make all their decisions for them, in which case they would have no freedom whatsoever. >>By Flagg And JJ thank you for your compliment, but I'm as guilty as everyone else here of resorting to insults. >>By Flagg lv2read. Your judgement of my intellectual prowess and integrity is not really a great concern to me. Sorry. >>By planet ear Just an observation concerning the situation in Iran and other "nuclear-aspirant" countries... In order to have nuclear power (which we in the West at very least seem to favour preserving as an option, often justified on the grounds of reducing carbon emmissions) those countries will either need to have a sufficient supply of uranium/plutonium whether indigenous or imported, or engage in refining the products of "breeder" reactors to boost their supplies. Is is not the case then that they will see developing the means to process the plutonium for fuel as a worthwhile activity so as not to be economically under the cosh of those countries who possess Uranium or do have these processing facilities? Is it not also the case that developing such facilities will appear practically indistinguishable from facilities to refine plutonium to the higher purity necessary to create an atomic weapon? So in being keen to prevent "nuclear proliferation" aren't the US (particularly but not exclusively) also rather conveniently engineering a situation where they have imposed a near monoploy on economically-viable nuclear power? The West may be currently rather dependent or the oil-producing countries and currently thru military might able to feel those supplies in the middle east it has come to depend on are relatively secure (albeit at some cost in terms of committing considerable military resources to the region). It appears to make rational sense that as these resources be more scarce and expensive that nuclear power may become ever more attractive. Given your apparent knowledge of the minutae of nuclear power can you tell us whether you have considerable financial/career interests in the technology of plutonium extraction and refinement or related areas lv2read? Personally I'm less than keen to have my country engage in aggressive measures against Iran et al under guise of preventing nuclear proliferation when in fact from this angle it can seen that this motive is seemingly inseparable from one of unfairly enforced near monoploy on a new and promising set of technologies.... I look forward to lv2reads' response if it can deal with the issues I have raised, correct any factual errors Imay have inadvertently made, and not engage in insulting my intelligence or character. >>By planet ear Planet Ear: <<<Given your apparent knowledge of the minutae of nuclear power can you tell us whether you have considerable financial/career interests in the technology of plutonium extraction and refinement or related areas lv2read?>>> I have no interest (financial or otherwise) in plutonium extraction ---(do you mean by-product??) and refinment. I have a graduate degree in Mechanical Engineering but am a business owner in the field of finance---BIAM would stereotype me as a _____ money lender I suppose. Flagg: <<<<I don't like the sound of what you said about how children should be 'placed' on programmes that teach them practical skills. I think the practical skills route needs to be as open to everyone as the academic route, and the young people decide for themselves. If you don't trust young people to choose the right path for themselves then you might as well make all their decisions for them, in which case they would have no freedom whatsoever.>>>> I could agree with that in a heartbeat---but your last (cited) sentence bothers me. I am much more concerned with parents exercising their responsibility that I am with the lack of 'freedom' for minors. If you take the parents out of the equation---ALL is lost >>By lv2read Bit of "politicians denial" there lv2read. ;) Care to tell us the name of your business? >>By planet ear Planet Ear: With all due respect, I believe that my profile page has my picture, my age, my city of residence AND an unambiguous statement of my interests. And yours??? I believe that the next question is ours. Not suggesting for a moment that you are hiding, or concealing anything, or that you have a very good reason for doing so, But I'd suggest that if you are interest in playing tit for tat----that you'd view your baggage first. But......thank goodnes the above is sarcasn. There is an unwritten rule here that you should conduct yourself as an adult. We are hoping that you'll come over to the other side. >>By lv2read I think "No" would have sufficed for an adult lv2read. >>By planet ear >>I could agree with that in a heartbeat---but your last (cited) sentence bothers me. I am much more concerned with parents exercising their responsibility that I am with the lack of 'freedom' for minors. If you take the parents out of the equation---ALL is lost So are you saying the two things are opposed? I feel incredibly priveleged to have parents who have told me they will support me in whatever I choose to do, and I wish that all parents were like mine in that regard. Because being a parent doesn't mean you know what's best for your kids. Your kids aren't an extension of you. Is it your responsibility to keep them away from gangs and gun crime and so on? Absolutely. But presuming you know what they should do with their life and where they should focus their energies, simply because you brought them up and have more life experience than them, does nothing but limit their potential for success and - more importantly - happiness. They have to be able to try ANYTHING they want, providing it doesn't harm other people. >>By Flagg > They have to be able to try ANYTHING they want, providing it doesn't harm other people. Can I add 'be ANYTHING they want' - as in 'be gay' There, closed the circle - back to Brokeback Mountain ;-) >>By Lynn LOL Do you think someone who was struggling with their own concealed sexual identity might perhaps find themselves a very much younger "trophy wife" in their dotage to create the impression of normality lv2have-secretive-business-affairs? >>By planet ear Flagg: Every parent must decide what is best for their family in rearing children. There are no absolute answers....no books that are all inclusive----sure wish their had been such a guidepost as I would have been a customer!!! Flagg, an adolescent does not always know what is best for them and it is the responsibility of the parent to provide guidance as necessary. Some parents live through their children, and that is not right---but we aren't talking about that here. My sons chose their own fields of study---pediatrics, mathmatics and nuclear engineering...not a mechanical engineer in the group. But that is fine as it is their lives. Sure, I was hoping that one would have similar interests to mine, but it was not to be. And none of the three have ever expressed a desire to work with me in my company, and that is OK also. You must 'let your children go' in order to keep them. >>By lv2read I think L2R is right, we should tone down the rhetoric. However, I'm not going to tolerate a liar which is exactly what Planet Ear is. He took physics in Uni--so did I, so did my sister, so did everyone else I know. He's a wannabe musician, and having failed at that wants us to believe he's a physicist. Your opinion is of no interest, PE, because you're a lying, phony sack of crap, and your own posts make your level of education clear to us all. L2R, Newport is awesome...I went to high school in Manhattan Beach. I think you've probably seen the changes in the South Bay over the last 20-30 years, and it makes me understand where you're coming from a little more. I hope Newport doesn't end up with houses turned into 20-person apartments full of immigrants. >>By Just Jon More Googled crime stats i'm afraid - doesnt look awesome to me , makes the "Liverpool slums " look good. Incidently L2R did you ask a local where the "slums" where , not exactly on the tourist trail , it'd be like going down to Compton and saying to someone who is black - " hey bro - where's the ghetto" , the response would be exactly the same i would imagine and involve lots of violence :) City Wide Statistics 2006 Crime Statistics Report Get Statistics for: Select2006200520042003 go Part I Offenses Offense Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sept Oct Nov Dec YTD Change Criminal Homicide 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A Forcible Rape 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 N/A Robbery 3 1 0 1 2 3 6 1 4 0 0 0 21 N/A Assault 47 30 47 45 48 47 68 52 46 0 0 0 430 N/A Aggravated 4 5 3 4 1 6 6 6 2 0 0 0 37 N/A Simple 43 25 44 41 47 41 62 46 44 0 0 0 393 N/A Burglary 50 59 38 53 34 44 48 55 44 0 0 0 425 N/A Residential 32 28 16 21 19 23 19 20 30 0 0 0 208 N/A Commercial 10 22 19 24 11 13 19 24 10 0 0 0 152 N/A Garage 8 9 3 8 4 8 10 11 4 0 0 0 65 N/A Larceny-Theft 116 140 136 134 125 152 178 140 122 0 0 0 1243 N/A Petty Theft 23 29 34 38 35 41 57 43 31 0 0 0 331 N/A Grand Theft 29 25 28 35 30 47 41 37 33 0 0 0 305 N/A Burglary/Theft From Motor Vehicle 64 86 74 61 60 64 80 60 58 0 0 0 607 N/A Grand Theft Auto 9 17 17 11 13 16 22 26 15 0 0 0 146 N/A Arson 1 0 2 0 3 1 5 1 2 0 0 0 15 N/A Part I Total 226 248 240 244 225 263 327 275 233 0 0 0 2281 N/A Part II Offenses Offense Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sept Oct Nov Dec YTD Change Forgery & Counterfeiting 10 7 12 8 5 14 14 14 11 0 0 0 95 N/A Fraud 40 32 21 34 26 50 27 26 25 0 0 0 281 N/A Embezzlement 15 1 4 0 2 1 4 8 5 0 0 0 40 N/A Receiving Stolen Property 10 0 3 7 4 4 9 1 2 0 0 0 40 N/A Vandalism 50 31 45 49 55 67 49 58 28 0 0 0 432 N/A Weapons 11 6 4 6 5 4 7 10 4 0 0 0 57 N/A Prostitution & Vice 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 N/A Other Sex Offenses 5 4 9 2 7 5 8 7 4 0 0 0 51 N/A Drug Abuse Violation 44 11 24 32 23 33 34 39 27 0 0 0 267 N/A Gambling 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A Family Offenses 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 N/A Driving Under the Influence 36 53 53 36 55 48 39 53 53 0 0 0 426 N/A Liquor Violation 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 5 N/A Drunkenness 52 42 64 42 75 45 144 50 49 0 0 0 563 N/A Disorderly Conduct 4 0 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 0 0 0 13 N/A Vagrancy 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A All Other Offenses 67 41 49 46 50 28 52 61 47 0 0 0 441 N/A Part II Total 347 228 289 264 308 300 393 329 256 0 0 0 2714 N/A Top Copyright © 2000 - 2006 Newport Beach Police Department, CA Powered by >>By wreckin krew Uh, dude...I suggest you walk around Newport Beach at 4 a.m. and then try the same in Liverpool. I might be willing to concede that Huntington has become a shit hole, but Newport? You've not been there, so shut up. >>By Just Jon
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