you know what if the elfs had of breeded with men , instead of giving them long life then there wouldnt of being a fall of the numenor because all the kings of men would of being half elf and would be immortal and wouldnt of attacked the valar..... soo i its the noldor fault for the great fall of the first age...... maybe that was the plan after all when when the noldor seen the vision at the beginning of the Silmarillion of what the world would be... but the elfs screwed it up....
have the emotions and though of man and the immortality of the elfs...
that would of being the pertfect world that they would of solved everything.... Earendil is an example that i think middleearth should of followed... but they didnt....
>>By zeromenace (Saturday, 26 Mar 2005 13:34)
looking back on tolkien life, you most wonder how he done it.
he must of very strong minded to handle all the deaths in these life especially during the war!!
and for his son to take over after and finish silmarillion and unfinished tales, it really shows what kind of a family tolkien had.... and i think its sad that i am the last to write anything about him here.... for shame to all that call themselves tolkien or even lotr of the rings fans.....
>>By zeromenace (Monday, 11 Apr 2005 19:47)
you know i have being talking to myself since Wednesday, 16 Feb... i get the feeling that no one cares about lotr anymore but no the less i will ask another question... As mighty as gil_galad was how is it he was slain and lesser beings survived, was he killed by suaron when he attacked the soldiers.. i think they should of shown a bit more of him..... althought he was more of a key character in the Silmarrillion during the second age i think they should of said his name during the last alliance battle at the beginning of the fellowship of the ring...
>>By zeromenace (Tuesday, 19 Apr 2005 14:17)
hmmm wasnt it earendil that killed the spider that morgoth rode on, heres a question. how do they know when an age starts or finished, like does something bad have to happen to the elfs before the new age starts, like the first war of the noldor with morgorth was first age, the age of the stars. then gondolin was destoryed which i may add pissed be off rotten, i loved that place with all its gates.
also another thing i was wondering, why did noldor take aman away into heaven just because some of the numenor came, ok destory the island find and kill all the faithless but the faithful that survived like enedil and isuldur they shouldnt have to pay. although they probaly would of went the same after a well. dam the noldor and there rules.... i wil say it again as i said it before but of course even then noone replied, earendil was the key, half elfs.... if elfs had of breeded with man from the beginning instead of the elfs thinking they were better and men lesser then there would of no problems, there would of only being elf and half elf and noone would have to die and numenor would of survived...
>>By zeromenace (Thursday, 5 May 2005 12:55)
I'm sorry, I don't know if anyone else is as big a fan as you are. I love his work and even I don't even know what you're talking about...
>>By Urbane (Monday, 23 May 2005 05:21)
can't believe my eyes... where is the flood of tolkien fans now?
once somewhere i wrote a whole page about how fans do not exist.. was i right? can't believe you actually read it... grin
with the fan thing actually i didn't mean to be as hard as i was, i was simply angry at some people at that moment... so keep it going zeromenace :)
as i don't know and don't have the time to read it all through, someone might shortly retell me what these 6 pages were about... let's try to develop a descent discussion here shall we...
as to tolkien himself... he was and always will be a brilliant writer, even if only a few still understand what it is that he gave us... as to his son... it would have been a wonder if he hadn't finished his fathers work... can you imagine what sort of a person that must be who would leave that sort of a jewel lying in the mud...
to zerom... not that anyone else would care to spend their time here anyway... you asked how did they know when an age started or finished... have you heard of history?... it's the same thing you know... twist it as we may, it still keeps being what it wants and how it wants, dividing itself into different ages as it wants...usually after an event of a great change, yes
>>By HY - (Tuesday, 7 Jun 2005 16:18)
you know what the only problem with reading tolkien's work is?
after finishing you wish you hadn't read it
because then you know you can't enjoy the experience of the first time again
and i should know, i've been reading it over and over since the second grade...
>>By HY - (Tuesday, 7 Jun 2005 16:28)
no the worst thing about reading tolkien is you know in your head that he never finished and that there could of being so much more, like as tolkien said lord of the rings was only the tip of the iceburg!!! Why couldnt of christopher being the same of his father and comtuined his work instead of just editing and finishn of the stuff he had already done...
and its not only tolkien fans that have faded away it is also the lotr movies fans as well.
What is the world coming to!!!
>>By zeromenace (Wednesday, 21 Sep 2005 13:38)
The world is living in the present, and not the past. There are other great authors around, and better movies. As much as I love Tolkien--and believe me, I love him-- it's time to move on. Christopher couldn't make new stories because he's not the storyteller his father was, and I'd be surprised if he could even get the stories published. I've read one book by Chris, and no more because I couldn't stand him.
>>By Urbane (Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 04:23)
Lord of the Rings is the Nirvana of literature. Not perfect enlightenment and oneness with the universe, I mean it set the standard for alot of what was to come but I think it's rather overrated in itself. Still, he was a very good a imaginative author.
>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 28 Sep 2005 19:14)
I finally read Harry potter. Cute but, not something I would buy. So, in my personal opinion and, I refer back to many discussions that compare the relative merits of the two, you just cannot put Rowling at the same level at Tolkien.
But, she's rich and, that helps!
>>By Rajiv (Saturday, 28 Jan 2006 10:01)
ok i understand whats you people are telling me... the only thing that makes rowling is that she is still alive and she can add to the stories unlike tolkien!!!
>>By zeromenace (Wednesday, 22 Feb 2006 11:45)
Alo. I have come into The Silmarillion.
First edition copies , how much could it go for?
and also, other than stating that its been published in 1977 and copy righted by George Allen and Unwin... what other indications would there be?
>>By Riverdream75 (Monday, 20 Mar 2006 06:25)
"ok destory the island find and kill all the faithless but the faithful that survived like enedil and isuldur they shouldnt have to pay. "
Gods may be cruel -- in fact, they always ARE.
Besides, it seems to be a law with Tolkien's world that when god steps in, great destruction is inevitable. Direct intervention is always catastrophic for the Middle-Earth. That is why Valar prefer not to interfere.
>>By Verst (Tuesday, 21 Mar 2006 07:52)
but why did the valar destory the island all together , just kill the faithless and leave the island to the faithful!!! it cant be that hard!!!
>>By zeromenace (Wednesday, 12 Apr 2006 11:35)
did you hear the news about the new lord of the rings dvds with unseen footage!!! ahh the obession begins again.. and the covers are cool...
>>By zeromenace (Friday, 15 Sep 2006 12:42)
ARE THERE ANY SERIOUS LITERATURE DISCUSSIONS HERE? Or only "Tolkien is boring", "Tolkien is great" etc. Come on!
Here's a starter: Has anyone seen any connection / influence of GREEK TRAGEDY in Tolkien's work? Take a look at "The Tale of the Children of Húrin", I did my final paper at University on this theme, highlighting the aspects of Greek Tragedy, as laid down by Aristotle in "Poetics", and comparing some scenes of Sophocles' "Oedipus the King" and "Antigona", with parts of the Tale. In no other place I have seen this comparisson, am I the first?
By the way: Tolkien is great!
>>By Shadowfax (Saturday, 13 Jan 2007 12:49)
>>By zeromenace (Wednesday, 26 Sep 2007 17:21)
you would think after all the years that christopher has dealt with the books editing and such that he couldnt of made up some stories off his own...and stop using his fathers work as his own.. im agreeing with Rajiv above there... christopher done good by this father but he should of used what he learned and done more with it, cause only a tolkien could add to the books, the only downfall with christopher is that he never had the life experiences that his father had to influence any ideas...
>>By zeromenace (Thursday, 8 Nov 2007 12:23)
I completely disagree with HY. I think the best thing about the Lord of the Rings is that when you read it multiple times you get so much more out of it. Especially if you read the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and some of the other books. Rereading any of Tolkien's work has only heightened the experience for me.
I also disagree with Zeromance. I think Christopher Tolkien is doing a fine job and does not need to add anything of his own. The books are too fragile and intricately balanced I'm not sure if he could pull it off. I could even notice the ebb between father and son in Children of Hurin (the book, not the chapter of the Silmarillion). It wasn't necessarily a good thing.
>>By Vellocet (Tuesday, 22 Jan 2008 00:43)
If Shadowfax was an active profile I would've gone there, but since not, I will say this here: - You are lucky to have studied Tolkien in depth, looks like it was a paper in Literature, as he also studied. He studied Classics as part of that, later going on to specialise in Old & Middle English. (http://www.tolkiensociety dot org/tolkien/biography.html for those interested) Without looking anything up, I'd guess the Classics helped shape his story structure, but not exclusively. I haven't got obsessive enough to follow it up, but I also see elements of many other culturolingual traditions in LOTR. The Gondor tradition seems very Gaelic, the Dwarves seem a bit East European (Nogrod, ancient dwarf city c.f. Novgorod; Khazad, the Dwarve's name for themselves c.f. Khazak [Cossak] ) or maybe Arabic, with their Battle of Azanulbizar "z"s and "b"s?. Somewhere I have seen things that reminded me of the warrior traditions of the Punjab, but can't think of it at the moment dammit. Maybe Rohan? And Beorn in The Hobbit seemed Scandinavian.
Anyway, literaturewise (?) I am enlightened, because I thought it was all based on Northern European stuff like Beowulf.
Can't comment directly on Greek Tagedy, I'm self-taught, and neither Greek nor tragic. :-)
& Hi to Vellocet for still being here recently.
>>By flamencoprof (Thursday, 24 Jan 2008 12:14)
Wow. Elves, Hobbits, Harry Potter...None of you plan on getting laid anytime soon, do you?
>>By Hank Diddler (Friday, 25 Jan 2008 04:20)
[QUOTE]he Dwarve's name for themselves c.f. Khazak [Cossak] ) or maybe Arabic, with their Battle of Azanulbizar "z"s and "b"s?.[/QUOTE]
Well, it's been a long time since I read the relevant texts but IIRC the dwarf names are borrowed directly (in some cases) from the Norse Myths (specially the Poetic/Prose Edda). Tolkien discusses this in his Letters.
Also, warrior traditions of the Punjab? LOL, what might those be?
>>By Verb (Saturday, 26 Jan 2008 19:10)
The discussion board is currently closed.