Andy Mcnab
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Glad you found us -- and especially since you've come via the Ink magazine article! :o)
You'll find a fair few of us have read the same books as you, but you do have me wondering about "freddie" -- as in forsythe? As to the BBC series, well... best not to get me started on what we Yanks are missing! :o(
Care to tell which of AM's fictions you've read? And also share your thoughts on Soldier Five?
>>By am-i-binned (Sunday, 7 Mar 2004 03:55)
Has anyone ever read any books written by John Parker?
www.john-parker.co.uk/militaryandinvestigativebooks.htm
>>By borisette (Sunday, 7 Mar 2004 12:39)
Nomad: you have bookshop cafes there now? Even 'few and far between' counts as impressive. You are lucky, I'd have to drive about 4½ hours to get to a bookshop of significant size (I take it that mild exaggeration is allowed :-) and one still has to bring one's own sandwiches.
But you'd probably like it here - Lynx (lynxes?) are indigi- indegin- endigen- ..well, they actually live here so you'd get plenty of cat-hunting ;-)
T.S.
>>By The Scandinavian (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 08:51)
Hello T.S. - that would be hunting without a gun - just to clarify.
Lynx are lovely cats. You have Wolves there also.
Perhaps you should open a bookshop T.S. sounds like you have a ready market.
And if it gets dark so early there too (as I am led to believe) perhaps some kind of book illumination device would also sell well? Just an idea.
>>By Nomad (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 12:45)
We really do have wolves here - there is a pack of four that has been seen in the forest adjacent to our place. They've been getting quite close to the village this year and have already taken some sheep from a nearby farm. Our two (pet!) ewes are kept in a lot these days and I put the horses in too as soon as it gets dark... Hey I shall send you a flork-mail, I should try to remember that this is an AM discussion board :-)
T.S.
>>By The Scandinavian (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 13:05)
Hmmm... Are you maybe talking NVA's there, Nomad? vbg! vbw!
Oh, TS, so glad to see you're fully recovered from opening those explosive pictures! (Okay, I'm sorry, I confess -- I did laugh at your dusty-bunny appearance!) :o)
Haven't read any John Parker books, Borisette, altho I recognize one in particular, Death of a Hero. Last April, we had some postings regarding Capt. Robert Nairac's tragic death both here (starting on pg 11) and on Allreaders.
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 13:18)
NVA? Is that like passive NVG's?
I was thinking candles!
I have a nice book light for under covers action!
Still looking for the guitar in IA. I WILL find it!
>>By Nomad (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 17:41)
search no more, i have three on my wall.
>>By trident (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 17:52)
What's that TRidy, 3 guitars, 3 of Nomad's special booklights, or 3 NVA's.......
>>By borisette (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 18:00)
Found a little article you guys might be interested in.
http://www.news.com.au/common/
story_page/0,4057,8895804%
255E1702,00.html
>>By Dare (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 18:57)
at least three guitars.
three NVA's are still hiding in a foxhole in the jungle and
three special nomads are wandering around the desert with booklights
>>By trident (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 19:15)
NVAs... a little bit of S5 sneaking in... night viewing aids... :o)
>>By am-i-binned (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 20:22)
Thanks Dare ! Fifth squadron..... (thought they already had hehehe)
For those of you who can watch The History Channel (UK):
15 Mar 2004 Mon 14.00 - 16.00
BRAVO TWO ZERO: BEHIND IRAQI LINES
Go to http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk
Somehow I can’t give the direct link to the broadcast, but if you go to the main site and search for Bravo Two Zero (top right) then you’ll find the info.
I think it's the repeat from last year - so if you missed it.... :o)
(sour smile since I will definitely miss it...again)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 21:30)
Cool link, Lynn!
It even has two archived chats with AM and CR that I had never seen before...
Neat!
>>By Majorette (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 22:07)
Those archived chats are not complete M.
At least AM's is not, there were a lot more Q & A's then there are there now - if you want the whole thing.. just flork :o)
>>By Lynn (Monday, 8 Mar 2004 22:23)
Bit more here following on from that link Dare posted way up there...
SAS creates a new squadron to counter threat from al-Qa'eda
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml
=%2Fnews%2F2004%2F03%2F07%2Fwbin107.xml
Also...different subject...
The Truth About Killing
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/
S/science/society/killing.html
>>By bikergirl (Tuesday, 9 Mar 2004 15:15)
Thanks for the links BG. Interesting articles.
I wasn't very impressed with Dr. Burns presentation. He relied far too heavily on anecdotal evidence and his article is more of a philosophical exercise than a scientific presentation of facts. He does state at the end of his article that--
>>>It has been estimated that more than 55 million people died during the Second World War. Much of this killing may have been perpetrated by armies fighting at less than 20% killing capacity. We may never know the truth about killing. But it says something tragic about the human condition that we are still looking for ways to improve upon these figures.<<<
I'd be interested to know what field Dr. Burns studies. His conclusions and statements throughout the article are simplistic and naive. He doesn't write like a scientist, but like a moraliser, albeit a very mild-mannered one.
"Let's just say I agree with you... in a very unusual way." :)
The Grossman book and his ideas on military conditioning to improve the efficiency of it's soldiers and a similar desensitization of the general population to violence through the media look very interesting. The Amazon link below has lots of interesting reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0316330116/ref=sib_rdr_
dp/104-1981465-5288752?%
5Fencoding=UTF8&no=283155&me=
ATVPDKIKX0DER&st=books
>>By Dare (Wednesday, 10 Mar 2004 17:02)
Interesting links BG and DAre.
this is interesting aswell, makes you think how much politics, money and oil go together
http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/
topics_info_show.htm?doc_id=100339
Question :
How do women get into the det?
What selection do they have to go through?
>>By borisette (Wednesday, 10 Mar 2004 21:40)
Really interesting links, BG, Dare and Borisette. The Dave Grossman book "On Killing" certainly looks very interesting. I sometimes work with youth offenders who are either heading towards Anti-Social Behaviour Orders or who have one already. What fascinates me about many of these kids is their complete lack of empathy for other human beings, for themselves (no or little concept of being harmed), but also the complete lack of discipline in their lives & their attempts to self-parent themselves. Many of them talk very easily & without any emotion about them harming other individuals, & how easy it would have been for them to go the step further.
I find both ends of the spectrum fascinating...in terms of Combat related killing & other forms of killing....& the stages in development leading to this.
What this does raise for me (again) is the responsibility of all governments to ensure that services personnel receive relevant support and desensitisation before entering civvy street, & ongoing support etc would be the ideal also. We can dream I guess...
>>By TabariGoddess (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 00:58)
Combining the latest news - army not being very attractive anymore and on the other side kids who need be be re-educated....
Since AM always said that the army 'saved' him....
There are (or have been?) numerous projects of this kind, might be an idea to expand the projects ? Or am I crazy here.
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 09:23)
Totally OFF-TOPIC re Mcnab (sincere apologies to those not interested in "Educating Rita scenarios") however the following is wholly ON-TOPIC re TG's previous post.
Re desensitisation Programmes:
Within all aspects of society words become fashionable let alone within medical/clinical aspects of psychology, i.e. PTSS/Shell Shock - Desensitisation/Rehabilitation.
Take Lady Williams speaking in Parliament (House of Lords) in referral to 9/11 and resulting US/UK anti terrorist campaign/policy: "But western public opinion has become increasingly desensitised to what has been done in its name." She further refers to Europe's experience of living with terrorism for decades: Red Brigade/IRA/BeiderM et al...
Http://www.obv.org.uk/reports/
2001/innocentdead.html
Put that same word "desensitised" in a different context and see how it reads: "The recruits undergo intense training methods to prepare them for all eventualities expected of elite forces. We have been accused of utilising the technique referred to as brainwashing." ((((ding ding)))) (cannot reveal source but Borisette did mention Det selection)
One of the most successful therapies is that of Existential Therapy, which aims at helping individuals, both healthy or sick, understand their lives, the ways they are created by themselves, their paradoxes and dilemmas, find possibilities to create a meaningful future. For existential therapy two points are the most important.
1) a person is seen as a being in the world or as living his life in a continuous process. A person is closely related to his life context (world). The task of psychotherapy is not so much to change the personality of the patient, but to encourage deeper and wider view of one's life.
2) psychotherapy strives to understand the patient's life through analysis of his interaction with universal existential factors, which include (to mention the most important): feeling of being; freedom, its limits and inherent responsibility; death and limited lifetime; anxiety; guilt; time; meaning and meaninglessness. Existential therapy strongly bases itself on existential and phenomenological philosophy.
TG said: "I sometimes work with youth offenders who are either heading towards Anti-Social Behaviour Orders or who have one already. What fascinates me about many of these kids is their complete lack of empathy for other human beings, for themselves (no or little concept of being harmed), but also the complete lack of discipline in their lives & their attempts to self-parent themselves.
The above in my field is referred to as: Pervasive Developmental Disorders.
Interestingly, a few years back I was part owner of an equestrian business. Cue: completely at a loss on what to do with some kids from the Midlands area, a few team leaders heading a group of mixed sex teenage offenders had taken them rock-climbing, abseiling, canooing, etc., you name it the kids had tried it but still there was trouble in the camp and four days to go to end of holiday. The head of the team had brought his own kids on holiday to the same area before and his girls had gone riding nearly every day...At the end of his tether and still three days to go with a bunch of tough-nut street-wise kids he rang the stables to see if there was a chance of giving the kids a safe trek on the beach. It was out of season, and told to arrive at set time the stables were empty bar for stable hands and horses. You should have see those kids faces when they tumbled out of two mini-buses in the parking lot = gloomy, disinterested, downright unpleasant little yobs, their comments unrepeatable, ha, ha, that is until they were marched through to the stable block. One look at 14 gleaming horses 16-2hh tapering down to ponies standing at 12hh, their eyes lit up, fear also entered play as awe took hold...
First off they we warned horses can be dangerous (expected quip humour arose) secondly they were told to be gentle but firm-handed when patting the horses, and further warned so long as they were kind and gentle with the equines the steeds would reciprocate..They were then told the overall strength of the smallest pony, if shown disrespect or subjected to cruelty, that it would retaliate by biting, kicking, or unseating its rider, and in all scenarios would be the victor in any battle. As for the strength of the horses, well, no more needed to be said....The kids were game - it was to be their greatest adventure to date...What they didn't know was that the first day was not about someone "else" tacking up a horse and they, like Lord or Lady Muck then helped to mount up and ride off. Oh no, they had to learn what looking after a horse was all about (gloomy faces) but it was the deal of half price rides which meant more time in the saddle eventually: and that brought gleams to eyes and hard-one smiles, and slight consternation of individual 1-1 in the tack room with moi where a secret deal was enacted and had to be abided to or the whole deal was off...Needless to say they learnt how to muck out, dressup and dress down a horse, learnt the basics of riding in two days, and by the end of it all after shortish rides they were competent enough for a gallop along the beach through the surf as a grand finale...Right at the beginning I asked each one (during 1-1) would they prefer to call me Mrs ******** or refer to my first name - each one chose Mrs ********, so the authority figure was seemingly established by themselves (mum/confidante), it was also agreed that the horses only understood plain English and that some swear words might get them kicked while mucking out or bucked out of the saddle when they least expected (grins all round) and to be honest (boasting) they were putty in my hands...I received postcards and letters and Christmas cards and, in return sent pics of their fave equines...
That was my first foray into use of Existential Therapy: it's amazing how kids open up when around something that commands mutual respect like horses...Animals are a great levelers in respect of emotions and achievements with them...
As for military elite, they are trained to be desensitised (intensively so) their recovery rates seemingly much quicker via Existential Therapy and that of re-engaging their trauma (role play/revisiting) on different levels of sensitivity and eventual peace.
>>By devonwren (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 11:15)
Dev : equestrian therapy is/has been used for a lot of physical and psichological therapy. Here in Italy one of the greatest and even world known Drug-therapy centers, have a great method to help drug addicts to find themselves back into the "Real world" using the Existential Therapy by the use of horses and other animals. Each individual gets to be responsable for an animal (horse, dog,...) This Center has one of the most beautifull equestrian schools and all the horses are full-breeds (don't know if this is the exact word).
Now to go back to AM and the Det or 14 company intelligence.
As nobody answered me, I did a little research myself and found these sites plus a couple of books that may be interesting to read .
news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/
static/in_depth/northern_ireland/
2000/brits/transcript3.shtm
www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4021112
-103680,00.html
books : She who dared : Covert operations in NI with the SAS
One up : a woman in the SAS (Sarah Ford)
>>By borisette (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 14:00)
Oooh yeah and forgot to ask what is the equivalent in the States to
MI5 and MI6?
>>By borisette (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 14:01)
Borisette - MI5 - is our domestic Security Service - the FBI might take some of the roles it carries out?
MI6 or SIS is more like CIA.
Then we have the GCHQ - akin to the NSA.
Have you read One Up? Is it good.
>>By Nomad (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 14:08)
Nope haven't read any of the books about women in the SAS, thought somebody on the board might 'ave.
Maybe gonna buy one of them, as I'm not that interested in Soldier 5, after reading AM's B20 and CR's Totga, can't be all that different, just another point of view that's all. Reading Ratcliffe's Eye of the storm now, but unfortunately keep on falling asleep whilst reading,....
Had a look at the so-called official AM-fan-site. Now i guess we from F-troop could do a better job than that, the music is awfull. (see random...) the background could be better, we need more Special effects, ...... any idea's what we could do ??
>>By borisette (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 14:21)
That's good parallel, Nomad. You beat me to it. :)
Interesting info about the equine program, DW. We have lots of programs like that here. They're quite successful, but are, unfortunately, not available to the majority of kids who would benefit.
One of the things I always found intriguing in child development is the balance between independence vs team-spirit or sense of community. Helping children develop empathy for others is important and a bit of a challenge. Children can be selfish little buggers and rightly so, from a developmental standpoint, but as they learn their place in the world alongside other people, the sense of empathy grows. If too much emphasis is placed on empathetic development, it can lead to a diminished ability to defend oneself. Again, back to balance. In other words, a little selfishness is healthy.
>>By Dare (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 14:41)
There's an Official AM fan-site? Haven't seen, borisette. What's the address?
>>By Dare (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 14:47)
I agree Dare re your comments about child development.
I haven't seen the official AM fan site either...
DW - well, what can I say!! lol..
I love this site...it's always good for a laugh..
>>By TabariGoddess (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 17:15)
A quick, totally unrelated question, please?
Does anyone here have AM's abridged narration of B20 on CDs, not cassettes? :o\
>>By am-i-binned (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 17:59)
OK BORISETTE - TELL US.. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE ?????
HAND IT OVER - NOW !!!
Hehehe, the site that I took for the official website...is disappeared - what is it with these sites?? Boris, I'm really curious which site you saw - tell tell tell, let's compare ;o))
>>By Lynn (Thursday, 11 Mar 2004 19:03)
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