Discussion: Andy Mcnab

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ooh Gosh what a night, what a headache......

AM with the Teletubbies
Me being surrounded by an army of Sooties, a real nightmare.

Get that champagne out, cause here we go for page 150
Fireworks are allready there, .....

>>By borisette



ooh for those non-brits here's a site you can see who Sooty is:

www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/children/sooty/sooty.htm

Ok this has nothing to do with AM, but it was a hell of a nightmare anyway, and Sweep was in command, so you can immagine how things went.

>>By borisette



I think AIB is fairly global in her appreciation and VAL must be huge in the states Rose.

I once re wrote Paddy McGinty words but about someone's avid appreciation of ferrets. That's another irrelevant story.

What about O'Rafferty's motor car or Delaney's donkey.

I think we're floundering a wee bit and I sense a lot of tension in the wires.

Would Andy McNab not be able to laugh at himself? Do SF chaps and chapesses take themselves so seriously (off duty) that they can't crack a smile even?

I once had an Eagle eyes Action man - and my sister had a speaking doll that said quite heart warming and endearing things. I removed the voice box from the doll and put it in the Action man - next thing the little fuzzy felt haired rogue with the shifty eyes starts crying Give me some milk or My nappy needs changing or I've wet myself.
Gave me years of amusement.

I think you're right Reginald I may need counselling after all.

>>By Nomad



LOL!!! If I keep laughing like this, guys, I'll be saying the same as Nomad's action guy Sheesh! How come it always ends up coming back to piss-taking? LOL!!!

>>By am-i-binned



Wouldn't be here if not for the fact that DW has been banned from posting. Nice one...You know who you are!

No disrespect Reggie:

The Art of Scientific Methodology

Carl Hempel (1950s) gave what has become a widely-accepted description of how "theories" are constructed and tested in the natural sciences, drawing on arguments from the philosophy of science in the first half of this century. Unlike the simple idea of direct induction from data to theory (Bacon/Mill 17th cen), Hempel portrayed scientific methodology in terms of a "hypothetical-deductive" path.

(hypothetical=supposed but not necessarily true: you must all know what deductive means, as in deduce)

Scientific Methodology then moves from indirect data to the level of "theory" in a process which involves "imagination, analogy and models as well as logical inference". Karl Popper had earlier shown, that "theories" are then open to "falsification against the data" by the "predictions" one deduces.

(Now this the tricky bit = scientists often deduce differing outcomes/solutions/facts = disputes/differing opinions based on differing evidence...)

Thomas Kuhn, Norwood Hanson, Stephen Toulmin, Imre Lakatos and others (1950-1960) supplemented Hempel’s account in a broader view which stressed the historical and contextual dimensions of scientific research. Barbour, however, provided a particularly helpful overview of their work. According to Barbour, these eminent philosophers showed that "metaphysical" concepts and "assumptions" pervade scientific theories and underlie scientific methodology. Data becomes "theory-laden" and theories influence the decisions as to which data are relevant. (but data is subject to human input/human error...)

However, the testing of scientific theories is complicated, by the fact that ad hoc auxiliary hypotheses can always be "constructed" to ward off potential falsifiers. Networks of theories, and not just isolated concepts or equations, are tested as a whole. Finally, the criteria for choosing between "rival" theories goes far beyond "predictive" success to include coherence with other, accepted theories, explanatory scope. Since such criteria transcend the details of the particular theories being considered, they provide a framework for a rational choice between rivals.

(On a psychology based footing here, take a long hard look at the above: "ad hoc auxiliary hypotheses can always be "constructed" to ward off potential falsifiers." = Gee, another term for counter intelligence input = "auxiliary" = person or thing: that gives help...)

Basically, Science of Counter Intelligence is like a lead detective who has "factual" evidence (data subject to human error input), possibly witness evidence (equally subject to human error) and all laid out before him plus the added advantage of "forensic science", he then has to put his "imagination" to work (theory-assumption) as to the actual scene playout at time of criminal act, because that is "his" only way of thinking like the "offender": each piece of a puzzle slotting (hopefully) into place as he and others repeatedly go through the collated evidence, but even here detectives often rely heavily on "criminal profilers" (psychologists by a different name speacialising in the criminal mind...)

It can be said (in certain circumstances) that investigative journalism thrives on "conspiracy theories" (Conspiracy itself has several interpretations, its basic component "to Conspire": combine secretly to plan and prepare an unlawful "OR" harmful act, as in personal/political etc., / working together, especially disadvantageously, in agreed plot to undermine: whatever)

Espionage: political/industrial/invasion of personal privacy, by government security services and press media, are all implemented as conspiratorial application in the face of conspiratorial theoretical supposition, based sometimes on fractional evidence based on hearsay or minute deviance from recognisable path...And bingo, this kind of information combined with moral conscience occasionally leads to a "whistleblower", (fame too), and immediately "conspiracy theory" becomes rife within the department the whistleblower operated from and, further up the line "conspiracy theory" is on nuclear blast mode: "it must have been her/him/IT what made her/him blow the gaff, then someone else puts forth: "it must have been ...(?)" Meantime, within the press media there is much rubbing of hands with glee...

If all conspiracy theorists were/are rooted out and wiped from the face of the earth (dare I say maybe some have been/will be) - do I get a conspiracy theorist badge for that? - won't that then turn us into absolute believers of our leaders etc., ?

>>By readit



Title "Conspiracy"

Take a fictional aspect of conspiracy theory aka McNab storyline based on this board: NS is given the job of getting together with a computer scientist to track down a conspiracy theorist on a chat forum dedicated to an ex SAS officer named McNab. Thing is, this CT might be innocent enough and just a fantasist, but McNab ain't so sure, he's had death threats and had thought anonymity - despite bestselling books - ensured his security...

With the help of this CS and, in light of work carried out for SIS and subsequent clearance to investigate with all means at his disposal NS and the CS get to work...Now this would entail some dodgy covert ITS (Internet Traffic Surveillance) but easily accomplished by the CS whose a wiz kid at hacking web sites and collecting live data = ISP signals/numbers, and of course, tracing those taps back to source. In most cases though, intelligence networks set up their own innocent looking web sites (honey traps): when you log on and sign up the website sends a cute little signal disguised as an innocent cookie!! ...

Here's the fun bit...A lot of people leave computers on when not using them (office environments etc) and permanently connected to telecommunications network, and that's where a really good CS comes into play with that "innocent looking cookie". The CS has access to your computer and all the files on it - he/she can surf the computer at will...

The CS has his/her work cut out: find, track, collate data from source computers...
NS has his work cut out: check equipment, locate source, watch/listen/confer with McNab, and play the game of pretending to be a McNab fan on the message board (handheld/satphone contact)...

Skipping the infil pages of NS to-ing and fro-ing and following up minor leads of bush/tree sitting, clingfilm wrapping sequences, and slipping in and out of houses/flats etc., when empty (suspect gone shopping/work/whatever), in the meantime action has hotted up on the message board...

Suspects are in abundance, but which of the former regulars are just enthusiastic fans of McNab, (one or two already under consideration as dangerous entities which triggered the investigation in the first place). Then there's all the newcomers, some clearly anti McNab others more middle ground but deviating either way given lead posts to follow or ignore. Hmmmm, NS has a bad situation, and it gets even more complicated by the passing of days: dangerous entities are much more clearly defined and a serious threat to AM's security, but can either the CS or NS be sure about exactly who is dangerous? NO!

McNab decides the best way forward is for him to "insert" himself as a newbie on the McNab message board, that way he can have direct contact with participants through a subsidiary communication portal attached to main web site, and only he, the CS, and NS, will know facts about him that ordinary fans wouldn't (with the exception of people from his past), but...

NS discovers that what he thought would be a pushover insertion is not as easy as first thought, because some of the fans (once a tight-knit group) have splintered from the core, and of those some won't communicate with him directly despite good innocent enough looking cover name, so its down to CS and AM to try and get a little offboard group up and running (create an in-crowd), but even that doesn't work too well when AM decides to go undercover as secondary name without telling him...

AM, CS, and NS, are all in the frame on the message board and what with NS in the field as well, the net is only just beginning to close with painstaking effort to sift through girl talk, man-to-man, and in NS's book, an awful lot of heart-to-heart sh*te and a*se in face stuff, and he's confused at how well he can impersonate a woman, that is, until one woman (he assumes woman) gives him a right runaround on "his" secondary name. Meantime he's got a love-sick-female florking him at every turn on his first nic...There he is, stuck in a bush, handheld com, all on his own, listening to the "love-sick-female" via fibre optic gadgetry, (mighty confused) and about to receive another enigma-code esk communique from "love-sick-female"...


ROFL, do you want what happens next..?

Sorry, she can't .....

>>By readit



And verily it came to pass that, on the 27th day, the McNab board didst reach 7 score and 10.

The F Troop Overlord (lady?) was mighty pleased and decreed that it wouldst be a day of much celebration and peace.

The Angel Of The Board didst say unto the faithful troopers,

"Nomad. Thou art a talented tosser of tempting proportions. Thou shalt feed the 5000 from just 1 egg, 4oz flour and 1/2 pint of milk..."

"Orty, thou shallst raid thine covert source of Glenfiddich and man the bar..."

"Furthermore and forthwith, Beth and bikergirl will be silenced by Order Of The Gag (no gags?...latex) till it be determined which foul chemical and biological demons they hath worked with that didst cause them to become such vile 'enemy troops'..."

And lo, there was much <<Applause>> from the unsung silent heroes and, forsooth, readit didst appear with Dairy Tray...
Milk Box?...

Verily wast confusion coolly calmed by devonwren who didst utter those 3 little syllables that mean so much..."choc-o-lates"

Well done troops. By fair means of foul, it's one-five-oh!!

>>By bikergirl



Why had DW been banned from posting readit?

Are you a frog in wolves clothing readit...readit...readit! (Just joking)

My head hurts with the last bit of CT NS action - so what happens next?

I think you should all learn about ANT - actor network theory - it's beyond me, but I think it's relevant to the monsters we build up in our minds and what is real and imagined.

Heres' a point that annoys me. In the Barry whats his face book - SAS Encyclopaedia - he refers to AM (Name withheld) and also to the MRF within a section on E4 - Military Reconnaisance Force - bold face type indicating it has another entry of its own, but when you flick to M - there is no MRF entry. Is this an oversight by Bazza?

>>By Nomad



"I must only work with scientific facts - not opinions"

Scientific fact is, in fact, suggestive of some degree of objectivity. Not always the case given the influence of social, economic, political perspectives upon the scientists...they're only human...

Those given the 'facts' on which to formulate their decisions, may perceive them in a manner also influenced by the aformentioned variables. Those who merely seek to pursue self-interests will only select the facts they deem suited to achieving their goals, avoiding controversial data with it's attendant embarassment. Facts that are in the public domain cannot, however, be avoided...and will come back to bite you on the bum.

A powerful epistemic community may be able to influence the perceived importance of some of the facts, and use that influence to reframe the issue. Possibly spin...

Trust no-one.
Believe nothing.
La de da.
Poof.

>>By bikergirl



Aw, man!!

You people writing so much stuff at once makes a poor sod like myself get a head-ache. So many words.....

- Andy McTwobraincells

>>By ortlieb



I meant daipers AIB!

More AM memories -
I built him a Granny flat on the side of my Sisters Cindy House - AM Action man (- not the other AM stoopid!) used to infil while Ken was asleep and vist the lady of the house.

I also built him a little wardrobe from a doc martin shoe box and would polish his little size 0.5 KSB's until they were bulled as shiny as hell. Even stole him some of Barbies coat hangers to hang up his arctic warfare coat to drip dry on. It was a hand made Hucklecoat - . Totally impractical when the shit hit the fan. Mum sewed me a little bergen and I filled it with chocolate whoppers before throwing him out the bedroom window with an improvised parachute made from a tescos carrier. Worked remarkeably well.

Tell you - it's lucky I'm not in charge of selection - I'm a boody hard task master!

Action man met his demise when I tried to remove his welded on blue underpants...err but that's another story I add in a gruff manly voice!!!!

>>By Nomad



150..and I feel just as old today.
Nice CT - if you'd make a book of it - would it be with the fiction or non-fiction books on shelf?? And I'm not even surprised I don't know the answer.

>>By Lynn



guess I'm partying all by myself then,.....

SAS, filter in just like shadows, the ball starts rolling
and its time to begin
some arsehole in Whitehall has just pulled the pin

your brothers around you the door gets blown in
you move into darkness, you know where to begin
to release on your targets, that explosion within

its over in seconds, your brothers are in
all releasing their explosions their explosions within

everything is all calm now, but adrenalin still kicks in
as you filter back thro, the walls you're within

checking all your servey now, all destruction and sin
your brothers around you, the shits been flyin

you check the faces around you
your brothers and kin, then pause for a second
to look for your pin

and now you're a civie, with your loved kith and kin
and try a new start, a new start to begin
and keep it all bottled up, that explosion within
but who gives a ---

you cared, you dared, you won

>>By borisette



Hey readit, my boy,

Hat off to you for your entry. I can't argue with that and it's absolutely right. But methodology depends on the scenario you are in. Certainly (and only) speaking from my own and my colleages experiences, facts are all that matter. Facts that are plain and undisputed by all. Facts in which we work with (in my own theatre of work) are facts, not open to any interpretation - even if we disagree with them. It's clear cut. Indeed, we certainly play on our hunches and initiative but in a critical situation, acting on just an opinion or an interpretation of a fact is not on. If the facts are not there, then neither are we. Again, your entry is flawless, so is your's bikergirl, but my thoughts on whistle-blowers, media etc are only based on my own experiences in the past when the reasons were just how I described, not what I think of them in general.

I hope you contribute more input like that. I find it very interesting (we all do) and I'm always learning.

Nice one.

"tried to remove his welded on blue underpants..."

Nomad, you strange man ! I should have you sectioned.

>>By Reginald



Thursday march 04 it's worldbookday in London, but unfortunately Andy Mcnab's name isn't mentioned
He was there last year and you can read the interview-transcript on the site,......how come none of F-troop were invited??
www.worldbookday.com

>>By borisette



I have read every single book that has been written by Andy, even immediate action, I think in an earlier life I must have been a trained SAS person lol. I really liked the book where he describes being in a hedge watching the enemy. I live in N. Ireland like your first commentator but I just think that adds to the reality of his fiction books. I enjoyed reading Bravo Two Zero, but then I read Michael Ashers book, The Real Bravo Two Zero, where he says he followed Andys footsteps and rubbished Andys claims. I don't know which is the true story, but Andy's book was great, especially on the logistics and their survival skills. I liked dark Winter, and the way he works for the British and then goes back to the Americans. I really like the way he writes in the first person and I am sorry his ward, or step daughter if u like is now dead, his description of her was fabulous. I am just waiting for his next book. Hope it is soon!

>>By grannymush



Thank you for the poem, Borisette!
How appropriate on our 150th!
And the mission continues.... :o)

>>By am-i-binned



Boy? As a Commander ex RN and in deference to my position aboard ship as a raw Lt I cannot recall boy in the vocabulary of senior petty officers with a decade head start on me. A first. Congratulations.
Reginald, re the work you were referring to. It was posted on behalf of DW.
In response to your reply. Yes one can be 99% sure of correct intelligence on specifics and individuals. 1% margin tho leaves room for doubt. Grave errors have occurred on 1% margin of doubt and that's when unwelcome shit hit fans like there was no tomorrow. Northern Ireland and Gibralta were renowned for marginal errors of judgement and unnecessary deaths. We've all been avenging angels in our time. It goes with the territory. God knows I've pondered whether I ever had a conscience. Your confidence however is astounding and unbelievably arrogant.

Nomad, I told the princess I'm p'd off with sitting on that goddamn lilly pad and what does he do, laugh. The mistletoe gets her every time tho. Always keep a sprig handy in the tracker machine.

Like I said I wouldn't be here but for buds getting banned from the board. There's snivelling snitchers at work and that's not my kind of party room. I hate women who think men dumb and not able to see right through their spiteful ways.

>>By readit



Hey am I right in thinking TabbariGoddess is a friend of yours, Reg?

>>By readit



Good God. Just caught grannymush before I hopped back to me lily pad. Jesus, a Belfast fan of the SAS? As rare as an Ostrich in London.

>>By readit



That's me done. Back to Flork mode.

>>By readit



Actually I have seen an Ostrich in London once, really flat though, got run over by a truck. Hope Grannymush will be more careful

>>By Lynn



Angels must be having a pillow fight up in heaven, 'cause it's snowing here.

Just turned on the telly, and it seems they've captured Bin Laaden near the Afghan-Pakistan border, so I was trying to see if it's true but i can't find a thing on the net, not even a word about it.
They also said it would be the Pakistani military together with the U.S forces, but what about the Special Forces,(Delta, Seals) what about the SAS??
Shouldn't they be doing that job? Why is it that they've always got to rely on the US. Or is this gonna be a Bush Election stunt?!

>>By borisette



Man-oh-man! Here's a way to celebrate 150!!!

"Dispatching Soon: We are preparing these items for dispatch and can no longer change delivery or payment options for them."

My pre-ordered Soldier Five!

Truth is, I was actually worried about a last-minute publication "problem" (uhm...conspiracy?) cuz Amazon.uk had originally indicated: "Dispatching Soon: 1 item - delivery estimate: Feb 11, 2004 - Feb 13, 2004" but then kept showing "not published yet" -- right up thru yesterday.

Phew, what a relief! :o)

So soon, guys! Soon!

>>By am-i-binned



Readit,

thank dw for the entry. I should have known. She has a good eye for detail and clearly knows what she is talking about.

"astounding confidence" - not really, just typical of anyone who has worked with good, reliable intelligence, trusting and acknowledging others who supply it. Yes 1% can result in the sh*t hitting the fan, but it's better than 99% and though can happen, is less likely to. In such an eventuality, experience teaches one to cope.

"arrogant" - your the first person to have called me that. Myself, I'm definitely not arrogant. No person who knows me, both in a social or professional capacity, would say either. I just call it professionalism and basic confidence gained from nearly 22 years service in the British Army - typical character of all my colleages and definitely not subjected to myself.

I mean no ill-intent by my ways of thought and views. It's just something that has worked for me (just a senior NCO), all my colleages - the whole section - since time began. I'm not saying the philosophy works for everyone.

Regards to you,

>>By Reginald



Bin Laden: short and confused article on lemonde.fr, full of contradictory infos. To sum up:

**Monday - "bin Laden is alive in Afghanistan and planning anti-American operations", say the Taliban in a communiqué.
**Thursday - Rumsfeld, in Kabul, says he hopes that US troops and Pakistani army will get him soon. Bin Laden is supposed to be in the frontier zone between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
**Many suspect people are arrested there by Pakistani soldiers during the past days.
**Saturday - Iranian radio says that bin Laden has been captured in Pakistan. They don't want to name the source but claim that it has been done "for some time", but Bush wants to announce it while the presidential election.

It's a bit weird, but it's all I have!

>>By alice



Seems my favourite authors have a knack for picking up scars in the same places using the same method (ref McNab's "...bite mark [...] which would stay there for life.")

The removal process...
"I'd noticed it for the first time a couple of days earlier [...] but then it had only been the size of a pinhead. [...] Now it was three or four times larger. [...] It must be a piece of dead skin or a wart, I thought to myself as I pulled to free it from my person. It hung on with grim determination. Again taking it firmly between thumb and index finger I pulled, harder this time, bringing tears to my eyes. Eventually, with a sound like a cork being pulled from a bottle, off it came."
He he he...Jonny Bealby survives to ride another day in the Congo.

So...are these guys just particularly tasty specimens, or is it really common to get (blood)sucked there? At this point I'll point out that this weeks New Scientist published an article linking oral sex and oral cancer...no fun!!

**********

(sound of 999's...sight of flaming FP1's...happy bikergirl!!)

>>By bikergirl



Bin Laden hoax backfires in Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3424197.stm

And I thought Bush already had bin Laden in the hand and stashed away in the White House ready to be paraded at the appropriate moment in the election run-up...

>>By bikergirl



a-i-b...
Just checked...
Dispatched on 28 February, 2004
My copy of Soldier 5!!!

>>By bikergirl



<< Bin Laden hoax backfires in Lebanon >>

LOL!!! Is it any wonder that we suffer serious skepticism sometimes...?!?!

Ooooh, look at all the eggy news-folk faces! And they think the public is gullible! Hahaha!

>>By am-i-binned



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